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General Milsurp Weapons => Milsurp Rifles & Carbines => All the rest => Topic started by: fenceline on March 30, 2016, 05:18:46 PM

Title: MAS 49/56 Project
Post by: fenceline on March 30, 2016, 05:18:46 PM
So I was at the local gun show last weekend and picked up a MAS 49/56.  It was a bit of a gamble.  The firing pin had been ground down, the ejector had been removed and the barrel appeared plugged by some sort of epoxy.  It was sold as a project/deactivation, and I was hoping it would be a quick fix.  When I got home, I stripped it down to see about soaking the barrel to try and break down the epoxy in the barrel.

This is what I found...

(http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy118/Prairie-Law-Dog/MAS%2049%2056/20160329_134843_zpssdvaqkzm.jpg)

(http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy118/Prairie-Law-Dog/MAS%2049%2056/20160329_134909_zpstwhk4zgi.jpg)

:o :o :o :o :o

Anyone know of a source for MAS Mle 49/56 barrels in 7.5x54???   :-X   That will ship to Canada???

For what I'm into it, I'm still well ahead of the game if I can find a barrel.  I might have a source for the firing pin, ejector and gas tube.  Barrel is the only difficulty.
Title: Re: MAS 49/56 Project
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on March 30, 2016, 06:08:08 PM
Geez...   That may be one heck of a challenge. 
Title: Re: MAS 49/56 Project
Post by: fenceline on March 30, 2016, 06:29:19 PM
If I can save it, it will be worth it.  Threaded barrel isn't too bad to install.
Title: Re: MAS 49/56 Project
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on March 30, 2016, 07:27:28 PM
Its getting the barrel......
Title: Re: MAS 49/56 Project
Post by: fenceline on March 30, 2016, 07:31:44 PM
Agreed.  Worst case I have the original barrel.  Could also bust out the lathe on a blank haha.
Title: Re: MAS 49/56 Project
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on March 30, 2016, 08:09:08 PM
Prolly have to get a barrel blank in 7.5 and start new.
Title: Re: MAS 49/56 Project
Post by: fenceline on March 30, 2016, 08:24:30 PM
Not against that.  If I can get it contoured to match the original profile.
Title: Re: MAS 49/56 Project
Post by: Phosphorus32 on March 30, 2016, 09:07:26 PM
Yikes, that puts the short in SBR  :))  Can't help you with barrel sources, but I wish you the best with the hunt and the project  :)
Title: Re: MAS 49/56 Project
Post by: fenceline on March 30, 2016, 09:11:18 PM
If I were to find a MAS 49 barrel assembly I could always go that route too haha.  But I actually like how the 49/56 looks better.  Fingers crossed.
Title: Re: MAS 49/56 Project
Post by: Phosphorus32 on March 30, 2016, 09:21:09 PM
Yup, I like the MAS 49/56. Robust and simple design SA rifle chambered in a round with similar energy and ballistics to 7.62 NATO  thumb1
Title: Re: MAS 49/56 Project
Post by: fenceline on March 31, 2016, 08:47:45 PM
So this may have just got a little more interesting.  I have to admit, I'm not very fluent in French, or in their rifles.  I have a MAS 36, and really beat up 1907-15 Berthier, and now this MAS 49-56...

Or is it a MAS 49-56???

It has the barrel assembly of a MAS 49-56, but the barrel of course is cut and the gun is a total mix master of parts.

But the receiver stamp simply states "MAS Mle 1949"

Not "MAS Mle 1949-56"

Could it be that someone mocked up a 49-56 looking, quasi dewat?  I really don't know.  Anyone know if MAS 1949-56 versions were made without the -56 stamp? 

Rebuilding this into a proper MAS 49 might be easier than a 49-56 given the barrel differences.  Off course that would mean finding a front stock setup and a barrel.  MAS 36 barrel be made to work?

Suggestions are very much needed and appreciated.
Title: Re: MAS 49/56 Project
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on March 31, 2016, 09:16:09 PM
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAS-49_rifle

QuoteThe MAS-49 is a French semi-automatic rifle that replaced various bolt action rifles as the French service rifle that was produced from 1949. It was designed and manufactured by the government-owned MAS arms factory.[1] The French Army formal designation of the MAS-49 is Fusil Semi-automatique de 7,5mm Modele 1949 ("semi-automatic rifle of 7.5mm model 1949"). The MAS-49 semi-automatic rifle was produced in limited quantities (20,600 units), whereas the shorter and lighter variant, the MAS-49/56, was mass manufactured (275,240 units) and issued to all branches of the French military. Overall, the MAS-49 and 49/56 rifles gained the reputation of being accurate, reliable and easy to maintain in adverse environments. All the MAS-49 and 49/56 rifles feature a rail on the left side of their receivers to accommodate a designated rifle scope. The MAS-49 and MAS-49/56 were replaced as French service rifles by the FAMAS assault rifle in 1979.
Title: Re: MAS 49/56 Project
Post by: fenceline on March 31, 2016, 09:22:31 PM
Ya read all that. Still doesn't have the answer about receiver markings. I'm guessing  I have a MAS 49 that might have been re-arsenalled into a mas49/56, or just bubba'd to look like one.

I think I will try to restore it to mas49 specs. Anyone got a pic of one with the hand guards removed?  Gas block in the same place?
Title: Re: MAS 49/56 Project
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on March 31, 2016, 09:49:33 PM
I dunno...  You never showed pics of the whole gun.  For all I can tell, its a 49 not a 49/56 because thats what the receiver says.   :)
Title: Re: MAS 49/56 Project
Post by: fenceline on March 31, 2016, 09:54:39 PM
I just re-assembled it.  Sucks half a barrel onto the other half of the barrel haha.  It has all the MAS 49-56 parts.... handguards, barrel bits etc.

Just doesn't have the "-56" on the receiver.
Title: Re: MAS 49/56 Project
Post by: Phosphorus32 on March 31, 2016, 10:18:36 PM
Quote from: Loose}{Cannon on March 31, 2016, 09:49:33 PM
I dunno...  You never showed pics of the whole gun.  For all I can tell, its a 49 not a 49/56 because thats what the receiver says.   :)
+1

Here's my 49-56 receiver markings

(http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z475/phosphorus32/MAS%2049%2056/SN%20receiver%20better.jpg) (http://s1191.photobucket.com/user/phosphorus32/media/MAS%2049%2056/SN%20receiver%20better.jpg.html)

(http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z475/phosphorus32/MAS%2049%2056/left%20full.jpg) (http://s1191.photobucket.com/user/phosphorus32/media/MAS%2049%2056/left%20full.jpg.html)
Title: Re: MAS 49/56 Project
Post by: fenceline on March 31, 2016, 10:26:01 PM
Yup.... Looks like that, except it only says "1949" not "1949-56" and has a threaded rod holding the front half of the barrel to the breach.   :-\
Title: Re: MAS 49/56 Project
Post by: Greasemonkey on March 31, 2016, 10:31:31 PM
Quote from: Loose}{Cannon on March 30, 2016, 08:09:08 PM
Prolly have to get a barrel blank in 7.5 and start new.
It's a regular .308 bore, same bore size as a 7.62x51Nato.

Some sizes if your going the I make it myself route.
As I understand the receiver is metric 22mm and a 1.5mm pitch, muzzle brake is 16.7mmx1mmx23mm, the threads actually start about 5mm from the muzzle.  The barrel dia averages about 17mm after the chamber, 4 grooves, left hand twist, with a rate of 270mm or about 1 in 10.62. The gas port is 2.35mm dia.

If you got a MAS 49, there is roughly 20,000 of them vs. 250 to 275,000 Mas 49/56s


Little bathroom with a tablet or phone reading info.. thumb1
http://www.virdea.net/french/mas-auto.html
http://jpfo.org/filegen-a-m/masrifle.htm

Ok....lets make this simple...which one?? Stripped down pics of each.. I ain't stripping either of mine :P
Mas49
http://s6.photobucket.com/user/scotty1418/media/Mas_1949_75_No_Stocks_Full_Veiw.jpg.html
Mas49/56
http://s6.photobucket.com/user/scotty1418/media/Mas_4956_75_w_R_stock_Front_veiw.jpg.html

or do it the easy way.. post some pictures, show and tell thumb1
Title: Re: MAS 49/56 Project
Post by: fenceline on March 31, 2016, 10:35:20 PM
Ok ok.  Will post pics.  Give me a bit haha.

But it is a MAS 49-56 barrel up front, with a MAS 49 stamped receiver.

Title: Re: MAS 49/56 Project
Post by: Phosphorus32 on March 31, 2016, 10:46:20 PM
I wasn't aware that they updated the M49s to M49/56 configuration but it may have happened. I'm certainly no French expert.
Title: Re: MAS 49/56 Project
Post by: fenceline on April 01, 2016, 09:09:52 PM
 fart1

(http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy118/Prairie-Law-Dog/MAS%2049%2056/IMG_6921%201024x683_zpsf7a4xfyy.jpg)

(http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy118/Prairie-Law-Dog/MAS%2049%2056/IMG_6917%201024x683_zpsojw5r4yl.jpg)

(http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy118/Prairie-Law-Dog/MAS%2049%2056/IMG_6919%201024x683_zpshmzxwnin.jpg)
Title: Re: MAS 49/56 Project
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on April 01, 2016, 09:21:06 PM
Weird.
Title: Re: MAS 49/56 Project
Post by: fenceline on April 01, 2016, 09:29:45 PM
Looking through the gunboards dot com MAS rifle survey, it would appear that this specific serial number falls right in line with the Syrian Contract guns built in 1953.

There are two possibilities here. 

1) This gun was arsenal refurbished into a MAS 1949-56 configuration, but I doubt that seeing as it is likely a Syrian Contract receiver and I don't think it made the trip back to France (if someone knows better please speak up)

2) This gun came into Canada like many other Syrian Contract guns, in original MAS 1949 layout.  For whatever reason once it was here, is was rebuilt, or deactivated and made to look like a MAS 49-56.  Given how the barrel was cut, this wouldn't have been difficult.  Two guns into one.  Sad, but likely and the theory my money is behind.

Either way I have two options.  Build it back as a MAS 1949, or build it into the MAS1949-56 it looks like now.  I think I'd prefer the 1949 route.

Either way, finding parts will be difficult.  I bought a Sarco "49/56 Put Away Survival Kit" which has a firing pin and gas tube which I need to replace, plus a bunch of other parts.  That leaves me just needing an ejector (the won't send a complete bolt across the border, but might strip one for the ejector) and a barrel.

If I go the MAS 1949 route, I'd need that barrel, plus front stock sections, and the front sight piece.

Anyone know if a MAS 36 barrel can be made to work in a MAS 49?  The look pretty similar in length.
Title: Re: MAS 49/56 Project
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on April 01, 2016, 09:42:14 PM
You mean to tell me guns were actually captured from syria!?!?!    :P

No clue about the 36 barrel.
Title: Re: MAS 49/56 Project
Post by: fenceline on April 01, 2016, 09:44:33 PM
Seems like most MAS 49s in this part of the world came out of the Syrian Contract pile.  AIM and CAI were involved.
Title: Re: MAS 49/56 Project
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on April 01, 2016, 09:49:18 PM
Quote from: fenceline on April 01, 2016, 09:44:33 PM
Seems like most MAS 49s in this part of the world came out of the Syrian Contract pile.  AIM and CAI were involved.

Where did they get them hmmmm?  :)
Title: Re: MAS 49/56 Project
Post by: fenceline on April 01, 2016, 09:50:26 PM
Quote from: Loose}{Cannon on April 01, 2016, 09:49:18 PM
Quote from: fenceline on April 01, 2016, 09:44:33 PM
Seems like most MAS 49s in this part of the world came out of the Syrian Contract pile.  AIM and CAI were involved.

Where did they get them hmmmm?  :)

Israel perhaps haha.
Title: Re: MAS 49/56 Project
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on April 01, 2016, 09:56:16 PM
Welp... Its not like Century imported from Syria.    :))
Title: Re: MAS 49/56 Project
Post by: fenceline on April 01, 2016, 09:58:47 PM
If anyone finds a good front stock set for a MAS 49, and the front sight / grenade sight, I need one haha.

(http://www.sturmgewehr.com/bhinton/French_MAS/MAS_49SyrianGrenadeLauncher.jpg)
Title: Re: MAS 49/56 Project
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on April 01, 2016, 10:00:03 PM
(http://mediastore2.magnumphotos.com/CoreXDoc/MAG/Media/TR2/2/b/1/7/PAR124539.jpg)
Title: Re: MAS 49/56 Project
Post by: Greasemonkey on April 02, 2016, 02:36:44 PM
I can't say who put it in that configuration.. Now, I can guess it wasn't the French, on 99% of the French arsenal refurbs, they are marked as such. Just to throw this out there, they would have a [Pxx] stamp, the xx indicates the year it was rebuilt. So in my thinking "if" it had passed through a French arsenal after it was returned from the middle east, rebarreled/rebuilt with a 49/56 barrel, it should have received a refurb stamp.

In the picture below see the [P68] stamp, that usually means it got a complete rebuild in 1968. 

(http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af283/C13mechanic/Hakim%20Mas%20SKS/SAM_1376a_zpsn44lkmwz.jpg) (http://s1016.photobucket.com/user/C13mechanic/media/Hakim%20Mas%20SKS/SAM_1376a_zpsn44lkmwz.jpg.html)

Here is my other, this one is [P78], complete arsenal rebuild in 1978
(http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af283/C13mechanic/Hakim%20Mas%20SKS/HPIM0972_zpskscfvmfm.jpg) (http://s1016.photobucket.com/user/C13mechanic/media/Hakim%20Mas%20SKS/HPIM0972_zpskscfvmfm.jpg.html)

I've seen this [pxx] stamp show years from the early '60s all the way into the early-mid '80's. It very well could be a Syrian modification or it could be, there is always the chance, an importer rebuild or build it from a pile of parts, the 'ol take two crappy rifles and make a good one scenario. The lower forestock strangely looks alot more like the later production light colored wood like the paper wrapped Mas 36 and 36/51s that are seen from time to time as well as the later 49/56s.

The barrel of a Mas 36 is a different thread, it's 25mm 1.5mm pitch vs. Mas 49/56 22mm 1.5mm pitch

Personally. I'd leave the Mas 49 alone, it's a funky oddity unlike I've seen and parts for a Mas49 are exceedingly difficult to find, It's already together and should be functional. I think it would be easier to find a "true 49/56" barrel and parts and just fix the other.
Title: Re: MAS 49/56 Project
Post by: fenceline on April 02, 2016, 02:39:41 PM
Far from functional.  It has a threaded rod through the chamber to hold the 49/56 barrel on.  Hence my search to restore it to either or.  Would prefer a mas 49 build, but would settle for a 49-56.

Either way I'm in no rush.  Thanks for the info on barrel thread differences on the 36 vs the 49.  Saves some time there.  A MAS 49 barrel would be the ideal fix, but would require finding more parts.  A 49-56 would be easiest as I have everything else ready to go.

(http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy118/Prairie-Law-Dog/MAS%2049%2056/20160329_134909_zpstwhk4zgi.jpg)