We don't get too many chances in the States to see a '49 Russian with correct parts. Refurb or not, it's looking like the real deal.
http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?414483-1949-Tula-SKS-found-today (http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?414483-1949-Tula-SKS-found-today)
Yup, I saw that one last night. Pcke2000 is a member here, hopefully he comes along and posts it up here as well.
I'd really love to get a good shot of the receiver S/N along with shots of any refurb marks that it may or may not have on the various parts internal and external. thumb1
Border hopping CA gun?
Quote from: Loose}{Cannon on October 25, 2015, 11:47:26 AM
Border hopping CA gun?
Unless the magazine was adapted internally like some are? Also, the barrel is import marked isn't it?
He didnt say anything about one, and I dont see one in pics unless I missed it.
CA didnt always have the 5 rd pinning law. thumb1
Quote from: padams8888 on October 25, 2015, 12:59:19 PM
barrel is import marked isn't it?
Yes, visible import on the right side barrel.
Ok... I must have miseed it. Early century?
Thanks for sharing. Always cool to see the earliest SKSs of them all.
Quote from: Loose}{Cannon on October 25, 2015, 03:07:05 PM
Ok... I must have miseed it. Early century?
Not entirely clear in the pic to be 100% sure, but is surely looks like an early Century mark.
That is incredible 8) The spike bayonet, the font of the year stamp and the Tula symbol on the receiver cover. Neat stuff.
No, the photo isn't clear at all. the ...x39 RUSSIA is enough though:
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/Russian/1949_Tula/O1667_right_front_detail.jpg~original)
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/survey/russian/import_stamps/CAI_ST_ALB_VT.jpg~original)
Martin is right, CAI stamp is on the right side of barrel
also Refurb marks ([/] 1st GRAU Balakleya) are on receiver cover and right side of buttstock.
Duplicate post deleted
Very nice! Did you buy a lotto ticket after this one? That'd be one heck of a winning streak! dance2
I bet they are coming out of the woodwork peppering your PM box on gunboards and SKSboards with lowball unsolicited offers. chuckles1
That's a $3k+ gun right there regardless of the refurb! Don't let the 'real collectors' take it from you! thumb1
Quote from: running-man on October 27, 2015, 08:48:14 AM
Very nice! Did you buy a lotto ticket after this one? That'd be one heck of a winning streak! dance2
I bet they are coming out of the woodwork peppering your PM box on gunboards and SKSboards with lowball unsolicited offers. chuckles1
That's a $3k+ gun right there regardless of the refurb! Don't let the 'real collectors' take it from you! thumb1
Roger sir! Thank you so much for your advice and reminder!
Quote from: running-man on October 27, 2015, 08:48:14 AM
Very nice! Did you buy a lotto ticket after this one? That'd be one heck of a winning streak! dance2
I bet they are coming out of the woodwork peppering your PM box on gunboards and SKSboards with lowball unsolicited offers. chuckles1
That's a $3k+ gun right there regardless of the refurb! Don't let the 'real collectors' take it from you! thumb1
+10
Quote from: martin08 on October 25, 2015, 05:25:16 PM
Quote from: Loose}{Cannon on October 25, 2015, 03:07:05 PM
Ok... I must have miseed it. Early century?
Not entirely clear in the pic to be 100% sure, but is surely looks like an early Century mark.
Didn't Canada have a Century Arms office, like in Ontario or Montreal way back in the day? Seems I remember seeing or hearing about some Canadian imports on a Canadian board that had import stamps from Century.
They did have a Century branch in CA, but I'm pretty sure they were not import marking them then either...
Quote from: Loose}{Cannon on October 27, 2015, 12:20:54 PM
They did have a Century branch in CA, but I'm pretty sure they were not import marking them then either...
So....a non import Canadian weapon can make it in to the U.S., but a import stamped bound for the U.S. weapon couldn't possibly make it into Canada. think1
What's the motive? Its a $200 gun in CA
Quote from: Greasemonkey on October 27, 2015, 12:42:46 PM
So....a non import Canadian weapon can make it in to the U.S., but a import stamped bound for the U.S. weapon couldn't possibly make it into Canada. think1
No, I believe that certain legally imported into the US guns can legally be imported into Canada as well. There are guys up there who have nice Yugos and Albys that they specifically bought from the States and imported via a Canadian import company. The cost was prohibitive though, hundreds of dollars per firearm for this type of service, but to get unobtanium it was worth it to them. I think LC is saying that Russian SKSs are a dime a dozen up there, there's no reason for them to pay a huge US price premium + import fees for them to get the gun from the US when they are swimming in them already.
We technically can import guns from Canada...it's the same as importing from anyone else in the world that is not proscribed. The wrinkle is that anything military surplus *must* be C&R, must not be prohibited by the proscribed county rule (the whole must be a C&R and must be in a non proscribed country at least 5 years), and lastly must not be subject to the VRA. This means no Chinese non C&Rs and no Russian SVDs, SVTs, or SKSs. We could get all the Mosin Nagants we want from there, but we
can [used to be able to] get them straight from Ukraine anyhow so what was the point? :)
Quote from: running-man on October 27, 2015, 01:09:17 PM
Quote from: Greasemonkey on October 27, 2015, 12:42:46 PM
So....a non import Canadian weapon can make it in to the U.S., but a import stamped bound for the U.S. weapon couldn't possibly make it into Canada. think1
No, I believe that certain legally imported into the US guns can legally be imported into Canada as well. There are guys up there who have nice Yugos and Albys that they specifically bought from the States and imported via a Canadian import company. The cost was prohibitive though, hundreds of dollars per firearm for this type of service, but to get unobtanium it was worth it to them. I think LC is saying that Russian SKSs are a dime a dozen up there, there's no reason for them to pay a huge US price premium + import fees for them to get the gun from the US when they are swimming in them already.
We technically can import guns from Canada...it's the same as importing from anyone else in the world that is not proscribed. The wrinkle is that anything military surplus *must* be C&R, must not be prohibited by the proscribed county rule (the whole must be a C&R and must be in a non proscribed country at least 5 years), and lastly must not be subject to the VRA. This means no Chinese non C&Rs and no Russian SVDs, SVTs, or SKSs. We could get all the Mosin Nagants we want from there, but we can [used to be able to] get them straight from Ukraine anyhow so what was the point? :)
Ok, let me rephrase :) ... a weapon Century imported can make it in to general U.S. population with no import stamp, but a Century import can't make it in to general Canadian circulation with an import stamp. Especially back in the day, when all these weapons were flowing freely into both countries, given it is an older import stamp.
new to forum found two unrefurbished 1949 spiked sks. both tulas one is still in cosomoline, three digit serial number on one am---5 others four bo--02 any info all numbers matching thanks
Quote from: bcblaster on November 08, 2015, 06:25:44 PM
new to forum found two unrefurbished 1949 spiked sks. both tulas one is still in cosomoline, three digit serial number on one am---5 others four bo--02 any info all numbers matching thanks
post pictures please. Are you in Canada?
i'm in canada yes, haven't figured out how to post pics
Quote from: bcblaster on November 08, 2015, 06:44:29 PM
i'm in canada yes, haven't figured out how to post pics
I am looking forward to seeing your pictures, as personally I haven't seen any non-refurb 1949 Russian SKS's. Thank you.
pcke... Pretty sure he is in Canada. But still, dont think they have seen any non furbs either.
Blaster... Post up some pics so we can have a look-see.
need help posting pictures someone email me for them
Quote from: bcblaster on November 08, 2015, 07:42:53 PM
need help posting pictures someone email me for them
See here... It really is easy. Just join bucket, upload, copy paste the link when posting.
How to post photos in Board Information - Page 1 of 1 (http://sks-files.com/board-information/64/how-to-post-photos/87/)
or if you don't mind, you can send photos to my e-mail, I'll then post them here.
pckeorg@yahoo.com
either way would be appreciated.
I've seen several extremely nice 49's that have turned up in Canada. Some are absolute works of art! I would hesitate to call any of them "non-refurbished" I personally think that's an impossible statement to prove since nobody knows the provenance of XYZ gun and in the end it's pretty much meaningless regardless.
Hey Pcke, here's one of my favorites, I wish I could remember who posted it, but it's a nice one (click on images for full size):
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/Russian/1949_Tula/OB986_receiver.jpg~original)
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/Russian/1949_Tula/OB986_stock.jpg~original)
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/Russian/1949_Tula/OB986_left_front2.jpg~original)
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/Russian/1949_Tula/OB986_left_crossbolt.jpg~original)
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/Russian/1949_Tula/OB986_right_stock.jpg~original)
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/Russian/1949_Tula/OB986_receiver_cover_top3.jpg~original)
Unfortunately, staring you right in the face on that receiver cover is a dreaded DO diamond stamp:
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/Russian/1949_Tula/OB986_receiver_cover_top2.jpg~original)
In the end, it doesn't take away from the gun all that much (in my opinion). That's a $1000 gun in Canada, and would easily push $3k to $5k here. I was looking the other day on westrifle's webpage. They have 2 49's for sale @ $650 a pop (both with what looks to me to be refurbished stocks):
http://westrifle.com/wrstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=20&products_id=1991
http://westrifle.com/wrstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=20&products_id=2039
Thank you so much! It is indeed a gorgeous 1949! clap1 And based on the pictures posted, I cannot tell any signs of refurb except for the bayonet screw stake markings ( and the picture is not clear enough ).
And regarding the diamond stamp on receiver cover, one opinion (shared by a few long time SKS collectors) is that it alone is more like an inspection (may be pre-refurb inspection) mark, which may not necessarily mean the rifle has gone through the actual refurb process. Personally I have seen this stamp on several obviously-appear-to-be nonrefurb SKS's, especially on two 1954 Izhevsk's. However, I don't have any documented evidence to tell whether it indicates a specific refurb arsenal.
and it's interesting, I remembered that when I took a look at westrifle's webpage about two weeks ago, right after I found my 1949, there were still 4 1949's for sale, right now down to 2.
Im sorry pcke... but that to me sounds like a bobblehead collection preservation attempt to demote the meaning of a refurb stamp.
Quote from: Loose}{Cannon on November 08, 2015, 08:38:48 PM
Im sorry pcke... but that to me sounds like a bobblehead collection preservation attempt to demote the meaning of a refurb stamp.
Thank you, I am still learning.
Please see the post and pictures by member 'SVT-40' through the link below:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=516670
QuoteSome un-refinished rifles will have the diamond refurb mark on their top covers to show they were inspected even though they did not receive any changes during the process.
Could be, but show me the money... ya know. To definitively claim " they did not receive any changes during the process" is a load of wonk wonk. Nobody knows what that gun did/didnt receive during its lifetime.
(http://www.carolinashootersclub.com/data/attachments/68/68202-c3c4f03687f9c8a13d22934c51a00602.jpg)
Quote from: pcke2000 on November 08, 2015, 08:33:06 PM
And regarding the diamond stamp on receiver cover, one opinion (shared by a few long time SKS collectors) is that it alone is more like an inspection (may be pre-refurb inspection) mark, which may not necessarily mean the rifle has gone through the actual refurb process. Personally I have seen this stamp on several obviously-appear-to-be nonrefurb SKS's, especially on two 1954 Izhevsk's. However, I don't have any documented evidence to tell whether it indicates a specific refurb arsenal.
Yup I've heard this theory and have to this point, seen absolutely, positively zero evidence to support it beyond a "In my expert opinion (because I am an expert SKS collector and therefore an authority on *all* things SKS) this gun does not look refurbished to me, thus that mark cannot be a refurb mark (
besides if it was a refurb mark, my gun would be worth less by $XXX!)"
Something like this w/o evidence (even a tiny shred) to back it up is just internet legend as far as I'm concerned. What is documented is this (not all seen on SKSs, but many are and others that don't are well researched by Chumak et. al. as you know):
5th GRAU @ Alatyr
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/survey/russian/refurb_marks/5th_GRAU_Alatyr.jpg~original)
75th ABV @ Leningrad
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/survey/russian/refurb_marks/75th_ABV_Leningrad.jpg~original)(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/survey/russian/refurb_marks/75th_ABV_Leningrad_P.jpg~original)
Unknown stamp tentatively called "D0" here at SKS-Files (this one may or may not actually exist, it may be a light strike of any of the others):
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/survey/russian/refurb_marks/D0.jpg~original)
Unknown stamp tentatively called "D2" here at SKS-Files:
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/survey/russian/refurb_marks/D2.jpg~original)(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/survey/russian/refurb_marks/D2_P.jpg~original)
Unknown stamp tentatively called "D5" here at SKS-Files:
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/survey/russian/refurb_marks/D5.jpg~original)
Unknown stamp tentatively called "D6" here at SKS-Files:
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/survey/russian/refurb_marks/D6.jpg~original)http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/survey/russian/refurb_marks/D6_P.jpg~original
Unknown stamp tentatively called "D7" here at SKS-Files:
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/survey/russian/refurb_marks/D7.jpg~original)(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/survey/russian/refurb_marks/D7_P.jpg~original)
D ABV Turkestan Military District @ Solnech
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/survey/russian/refurb_marks/D_ABV_Turkestan_MD_Solnechny.jpg~original)
No. 7 Leningrad (I have 1945 down as well, I'll need to go back through my notes and see why I put that in there)
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/survey/russian/refurb_marks/No_7_Leningrad_1945.jpg~original)
I find it a hard pill to swallow that all these others are 'known' refurb facilities yet D0 is magically *not* a refurb facility. Just my opinion of course, but I think it's well thought out and fairly well grounded when the above is shown.
Quote from: running-man on October 25, 2015, 11:03:17 AM
Yup, I saw that one last night. Pcke2000 is a member here, hopefully he comes along and posts it up here as well.
I'd really love to get a good shot of the receiver S/N along with shots of any refurb marks that it may or may not have on the various parts internal and external. thumb1
has refurb stamp between star and year stamp on dust cover.
gentleman i just talked to today from canada said ATF will not let any sks rifles into the USA from canada.
Quote from: wacman85 on November 08, 2015, 09:47:28 PM
gentleman i just talked to today from canada said ATF will not let any sks rifles into the USA from canada.
it's not news
Quote from: pcke2000 on November 08, 2015, 10:09:58 PM
Quote from: wacman85 on November 08, 2015, 09:47:28 PM
gentleman i just talked to today from canada said ATF will not let any sks rifles into the USA from canada.
it's not news
rofl True. Of course most of us (myself included) have asked the same question of ourselves, or the ATF, or looked up the relevant rules, or asked others at one time or another...only to have the unfortunate reality confirmed again banghead1 chuckles1
Quote from: running-man on November 08, 2015, 09:18:35 PM
Unknown stamp tentatively called "D0" here at SKS-Files (this one may or may not actually exist, it may be a light strike of any of the others):
For discussion purposes. Personally I think D0 'Plain diamond' is an independent mark, which is different from other diamond shape marks, and may represent a specific arsenal.
Reason: I have observed many D0 marks on SKSs' receiver covers (actual rifles and online pictures). Though some of them are incomplete (e.g. a half diamond), most of complete D0's were struck hard enough to show 'something' inside the diamond, if they are actually like marks from 5th GRAU or 75th ABV.
I would like to hear opinions from other members. Any input would be greatly appreciated.
Quote from: pcke2000 on November 08, 2015, 10:09:58 PM
Quote from: wacman85 on November 08, 2015, 09:47:28 PM
gentleman i just talked to today from canada said ATF will not let any sks rifles into the USA from canada.
it's not news
was to me thought i would share if someone else wondered that may have not known, there for they wouldn't have to ask. only been doing this year and a half so not up to speed as you guys are. some times i throw stuff out here in case another newbie finds it and that way doesn't have to bother you guys with questions you've answered a 1000 times. plus i'm old, can read one day and will be looking it up again the next, lol.
Quote from: wacman85 on November 08, 2015, 10:23:37 PM
..., can read one day and will be looking it up again the next, lol.
rofl I hear that! Remember all sorts of stuff I learned as a teen or in college...but ask me what I had for lunch yesterday and it's ???
I think it's highly probable that the D0 represents a separate GRAU/ABV too. thumb1
The only reason I put the "may not exist" caveat in there is I have yet to run into a gun that had a nice deep full stamp that a photograph could capture the full mark unequivocally. For most there is just enough that I can't see to want to err on the side of caution:
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/Russian/1949_Tula/C3029_receiver_cover_top.jpg~original)
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/Russian/1952_Tula/CK769_receiver_cover_top.jpg~original)
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/Russian/1954_Izhevsk/E3123__receiver_cover_top2.jpg~original)
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/Russian/1951_Tula/H579_receiver_cover_top.jpg~original)
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/Russian/1956_Tula/KM2041__receiveR_cover_top.jpg~original)
Thank you very much.
Personally I think the one on the Izhevsk may not be an actual D0 (could be deep scratches which look like an incomplete diamond, or something else), as you can see (compared to other common D0's): (1) the two lines are not straight enough, and (2) the two lines were struck so hard, you would expect to see the two lines joined together at one end, but they didn't.
But again, I posted my opinion just for discussion and learning purposes. Thank you.
My opinion... RM posted a whole crap ton of diamond refurb examples, and I dont think this one is any different. Line here, line there, no line.... All same meaning, just a dif location. Russia is a big place.
all those look like refurb diamond stamps to me. some partially buffed off. some rifles i've seen and it's like a person can't resist the temptation to buff up the metal. case in point, sold a rifle to a friend and bought it back. now it was his at the time and not the least bit upset. he had taken the butt plate and buffed it to look shiny. i had the rifle over a year and all i did was put "Waffenfett" on the wood and "Automatenfett" on the metal and bore. i just think that if i was to have to sale one i could say that it is just as i got it to how ever was buying it.
Quote from: pcke2000 on November 08, 2015, 10:43:39 PM
Thank you very much.
Personally I think the one on the Izhevsk may not be an actual D0 (could be deep scratches which look like an incomplete diamond, or something else), as you can see (compared to other common D0's): (1) the two lines are not straight enough, and (2) the two lines were struck so hard, you would expect to see the two lines joined together at one end, but they didn't.
But again, I posted my opinion just for discussion and learning purposes. Thank you.
It's not out of the realm of possibility, it definitely could be. There was much *very* heated debate over that gun as I remember. I wish the OP of that one would have shown the underside of the receiver cover. That would have told a more complete story as a stamp that deep in places should have shown through with a bit of deformation on the other side. The general location is consistent with the D0 stamp (above the arsenal stamp) and the angle between the two visible lines is a pretty good match too in my opinion.
Hard to say, I can see your reasoning behind thinking it's not a stamp. At the same time, I've seen enough broken stamps and in general piss poor stamping efforts made on round receiver covers, round barrel lugs, and round receiver front collars that it really doesn't surprise me when some of them come out looking way off.