Ok lets get started. Over the years I have read a couple of threads about a blade D with strange markings. Seen a couple of blurry cell phone pics but know real proof. Until a gent by the name of Josh contacted be earlier this year. His pictures started rolling in and I started putting 2 and 2 together and actually coming up with four. I can safely say there is enough pics in my data base to confirm a pattern. Blade D rifles do exist.
(http://i423.photobucket.com/albums/pp320/javlin34x/WebsiteChineseSKS/XZ___D/XZ%20D_zpsfvsplrvc.jpg)
The D sure looks good with a blade bayonet. Right side full view
(http://i423.photobucket.com/albums/pp320/javlin34x/WebsiteChineseSKS/XZ___D/XZ%20D%201_zpszwaju6d9.jpg)
Left side full view. Note the five round magazine.
(http://i423.photobucket.com/albums/pp320/javlin34x/WebsiteChineseSKS/XZ___D/XZ%20D%202_zpswljypsi5.jpg)
Note the blade bayonet groove. These bayonets are not detachable.
(http://i423.photobucket.com/albums/pp320/javlin34x/WebsiteChineseSKS/XZ___D/XZ%20D%203_zps566nugwz.jpg)
The finish on these rifles is not the dull tung oil finish as found on spike versions. Standard light coloring with heavy lacquer finish.
(http://i423.photobucket.com/albums/pp320/javlin34x/WebsiteChineseSKS/XZ___D/XZ%20D%204_zpsflvuasu3.jpg)
Standard mag well and modded bolt. Note the filed down spot weld where the medinum barrel lug meets the receiver.
(http://i423.photobucket.com/albums/pp320/javlin34x/WebsiteChineseSKS/XZ___D/XZ%20D%205_zpsypacudl9.jpg)
This is the same mag release as used on the MC-5D.
(http://i423.photobucket.com/albums/pp320/javlin34x/WebsiteChineseSKS/XZ___D/XZ%20D%206_zpsgmvfcxyi.jpg)
Here is were these rifles get really strange. Note the step and the lengthwise grinding marks. Export stamp reads "MADE IN CHINA BY XY". These are the only words stamped on the rifle. They are NOT import marked. Not lightly. Not anywhere even on the barrel.
(http://i423.photobucket.com/albums/pp320/javlin34x/WebsiteChineseSKS/XZ___D/XZ%20D%207_zps77wazhct.jpg)
Note the step running the entire length of the receiver. The only way to create a step like that is with a surface grinding machine. The first time I saw this pic I though it was a seam. Josh has assured me it is a step.
(http://i423.photobucket.com/albums/pp320/javlin34x/WebsiteChineseSKS/XZ___D/XZ%20D%208_zps2eli1nrl.jpg)
FCG has been scrubbed.
(http://i423.photobucket.com/albums/pp320/javlin34x/WebsiteChineseSKS/XZ___D/XZ%20D%209_zpsev5rifgy.jpg)
Bolt and charging handle do not appear to be scrubbed. It is possible these rifles were serialed from the number stamped on the bolt.
(http://i423.photobucket.com/albums/pp320/javlin34x/WebsiteChineseSKS/XZ___D/XZ%20D%2010_zpsrsd3r1n4.jpg)
Receiver cover does not appear to be scrubbed I speculate the barrel, charging handle, bolt and receiver cover came from the same doner rifle
(http://i423.photobucket.com/albums/pp320/javlin34x/WebsiteChineseSKS/XZ___D/XZ%20D%2011_zpseflaugwq.jpg)
Note the Vee notch in the stock ferrule.
Sooo what do you all think
:P..........................Joe
Look at the amount of material scrubbed off the side of that receiver!! :o
thanks for sharing. 8)
Here's my thoughts...
The M was a new production gun. The MC-5D was made from existing guns. Comparing my M to my MC-5D, I believe that another arsenal decided to make their own version of the M, but using the bright idea of doing it cheaper. So "let's use old guns, and let's make our own mag release from existing parts", and we can make that same gun, cheaper.
The D is new production. This D, is obviously made from an existing gun. Taking into account that it has the same mag release as the MC-5D, and it has the same tall skinny font as the MC-5D, I bet you anything the same arsenal that made their "cheaper" Ms, also made this "cheaper" D.
This gun also has a "94" serial...which also is in line with 93 and 94 serials uses on the MC-5D.
So that's my take... made by the same arsenal that made the MC-5D, and made later on in the 90s along side MC-5D production.
Awesome, Thanks for sharing Joe. 1st time I've seen or even heard of 1...cool thumb1
The no Import marks..... think1 Any chance these were a trial run done state side where the import was scrubbed during making? Maybe only a few done and not even meant to sold? or run abandoned by defunct company?
Interesting for sure.
Quote from: Power Surge on October 24, 2015, 07:57:07 PM
Here's my thoughts...
The M was a new production gun. The MC-5D was made from existing guns. Comparing my M to my MC-5D, I believe that another arsenal decided to make their own version of the M, but using the bright idea of doing it cheaper. So "let's use old guns, and let's make our own mag release from existing parts", and we can make that same gun, cheaper.
The D is new production. This D, is obviously made from an existing gun. Taking into account that it has the same mag release as the MC-5D, and it has the same tall skinny font as the MC-5D, I bet you anything the same arsenal that made their "cheaper" Ms, also made this "cheaper" D.
This gun also has a "94" serial...which also is in line with 93 and 94 serials uses on the MC-5D.
Yes the font does look similar. You may have something there,
The 93 is not a date prefix. Two rifles in the data start with 0.
8)..............Joe
Quote from: XXXSKS on October 24, 2015, 05:48:32 PM
(http://i423.photobucket.com/albums/pp320/javlin34x/WebsiteChineseSKS/XZ___D/XZ%20D%206_zpsgmvfcxyi.jpg)
Here is were these rifles get really strange. Note the step and the lengthwise grinding marks. Export stamp reads "MADE IN CHINA BY XY". These are the only words stamped on the rifle. They are NOT import marked. Not lightly. Not anywhere even on the barrel.
Maybe I'm learning something new here, but...
What do you mean by separate exporter and importer stamps? I thought that was all done at the same time?
I do understand that there are two parts to a stamp... the "who made it" part, and the "where it was sent to" part.
But I just looked at all my commercial guns, and it's very clear that both parts have all been stamped at the same time, with the same font, on every gun. I don't see any evidence that any guns are export stamped in China, and them import stamped in the US. Even regular SKSs are stamped with both parts at one time.
Quote from: armedhippie on October 24, 2015, 08:53:29 PM
The no Import marks..... think1 Any chance these were a trial run done state side where the import was scrubbed during making? Maybe only a few done and not even meant to sold? or run abandoned by defunct company?
If a company wanted to make a run of these under the watch of the government. Stamping them made in China just might keep them off you back. Anything is possible.
If there was a protrusion foward of the mag well I might REALLY agree with you.
8)...............Joe
Wow, another variant of the Commercial SKS! I hadn't heard of this possibility before and certainly haven't seen one. First one I've seen with a tack weld at the threaded barrel/receiver area. First one I've seen/heard of with the "MADE IN CHINA BY XZ". What the heck is XZ? Just from the pics here, I'm guessing that step is about .030", give or take .010"? They made sure it scrubbed all the old info, for sure.
So, would this have been a precursor to the MC-5D? The lines are getting a bit blurry, for me, on production order. I'm going to have to make myself a time line for all these, just to keep it somewhat clear. :-\
Very interesting find here XXXSKS! Is this the only example known/documented?
firstchoice
Quote from: Power Surge on October 24, 2015, 10:35:52 PM
But I just looked at all my commercial guns, and it's very clear that both parts have all been stamped at the same time, with the same font, on every gun. I don't see any evidence that any guns are export stamped in China, and them import stamped in the US. Even regular SKSs are stamped with both parts at one time.
There are many instances of them being separate. When importer is stamped on the barrel. Look at armedhippies Six Corp rifle.
8)............... Joe
Quote from: XXXSKS on October 24, 2015, 11:22:34 PM
Quote from: Power Surge on October 24, 2015, 10:35:52 PM
But I just looked at all my commercial guns, and it's very clear that both parts have all been stamped at the same time, with the same font, on every gun. I don't see any evidence that any guns are export stamped in China, and them import stamped in the US. Even regular SKSs are stamped with both parts at one time.
There are many instances of them being separate. When importer is stamped on the barrel. Look at armedhippies Six Corp rifle.
8)............... Joe
I agree with Joe, I've seen various guns where the 'export' portion of the stamp that indicates model, caliber, and the 'made in china' portion can be somewhat different than the 'import' portion that designates the importer's name and HQ location.
Here's an example of the difference. This NR has the two stamps on opposite sides of the receiver and the NR side is clearly stamped while the CAI side is clearly engraved in a dot matrix style:
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/Chinese/AK%20Mag/9450935_import_stamp.jpg~original)
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/Chinese/AK%20Mag/9450935_import_stamp2.jpg~original)
I do think PS is on to something with the MC-5D comparisons though. I don't know about the same factory, but similarities abound. Heck, this MC-5D I found even has the same step where the receiver was fiercely ground:
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/Chinese/AK%20Mag/9479866_receiver.jpg~original)
The weld is also likely due to the fact that the barreled/receiver was fitted into a new stock that may well have been originally intended for a pinned barrel but repurposed for this long lug gun; they had to machine away a portion of where the barrel lug threads enter the receiver exposing them, possibly creating a weak spot:
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/Chinese/AK%20Mag/9479866_bottom.jpg~original)
I personally think that maybe this gun may have been imported into Canada from China and eventually found it's way into the US. That would easily explain why the export information is there but the importer info is not. Being a '94 stamped S/N, maybe it was intended for the US market but got caught in the '93/'94 Norinco Ban and was instead rerouted elsewhere? All speculation on my part though, neat gun Joe, thanks for posting it! thumb1
Quote from: firstchoice on October 24, 2015, 10:57:00 PM
So, would this have been a precursor to the MC-5D? The lines are getting a bit blurry, for me, on production order. I'm going to have to make myself a time line for all these, just to keep it somewhat clear. :-\
Very interesting find here XXXSKS! Is this the only example known/documented?
firstchoice
The MC-5D connection is very strong.
I have four rifles in my data base.
8)..............Joe
So... Is the mc-5d really just a d? Besplode
Quote from: Loose}{Cannon on October 25, 2015, 09:40:42 AM
So... Is the mc-5d really just a d? Besplode
They are certainly different beasts. MC-5D had extensive work done to the front sight block for a total bayo lug removal along with a chop down to 16 1/2". Here's the same gun from the receiver photos I showed above zoomed out:
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/Chinese/AK%20Mag/9479866_left_whole.jpg~original)
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/Chinese/AK%20Mag/9479866_muzzle.jpg~original)
Both features are different than your typical D (along with I think the magazine catch). Joe probably knows about other differences that I've glossed over, but those are the two biggies I see right away.
Laff... Was just messin.
Wanted to draw out the differences from someone more knowledgeable then I for the 'record'. :)
Well clearly it's a long barreled M then.......... rofl
Sorry Joe.......Had to!! :)
This is amazing actually.....there has to be very, very few of these around. Nice work Joe!!!
Thank you running man for the MC-5D comparison pics. I think it just might be the same factory.
That Canada theory just might explain how 4 rifles have no import mark.
Quote from: padams8888 on October 25, 2015, 12:31:38 PM
Well clearly it's a long barreled M then.......... rofl
Sorry Joe.......Had to!! :)
This is amazing actually.....there has to be very, very few of these around. Nice work Joe!!!
I WILL DEAL WITH YOU LATER MISTER. rofl
O and don't thank me thank Josh G.and his pics
wink1..............Joe
Just pulled my MC-5D apart.....same milled step in the side of the receiver 8)
A wise man once said "there's only M's & D's."
rofl2
Quote from: Worm on October 25, 2015, 07:37:56 PM
A wise man once said "there's only M's & D's."
rofl2
And then he was punched in the mouth.... rofl
Well...it is a very nice looking specimen, thanks for sharing it XXXSKS!
Just saw this...
This is like mine. Same mag release, same import mark which likely means it was intended for the US but didn't make it in before the ban, or made it there and migrated north.
Same exact features in every respect as the pictures in the OP.
SN 2307*
Kewl... Thanks for the info fenceline. Hopefully the commercial gurus will add it to the list!
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/Sheena%20SKS.png) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/Sheena%20SKS.png.html)
I wonder if that is what this is....the mag release intrigued me among other things....unfortunately, you probably have to be a member of her site to see the rest of the gun....and other stuff. :)
Quote from: fenceline on February 11, 2016, 05:28:20 PM
Just saw this...
This is like mine. Same mag release, same import mark which likely means it was intended for the US but didn't make it in before the ban, or made it there and migrated north.
Same exact features in every respect as the pictures in the OP.
SN 2307*
Can you post an overall pic and a closeup of the serial number. You can black out the last number.
Do you know the history of this rifle. Thanks.
:)............Joe
Quote from: Justin Hell on February 11, 2016, 11:34:04 PM
I wonder if that is what this is....the mag release intrigued me among other things....unfortunately, you probably have to be a member of her site to see the rest of the gun....and other stuff. :)
Really? Justin Justin Justin. You have never seen a USA duckbill mag? ;)
8)..............Joe
Quote from: XXXSKS on February 20, 2016, 03:42:36 AM
Quote from: Justin Hell on February 11, 2016, 11:34:04 PM
I wonder if that is what this is....the mag release intrigued me among other things....unfortunately, you probably have to be a member of her site to see the rest of the gun....and other stuff. :)
Really? Justin Justin Justin. You have never seen a USA duckbill mag? ;)
8)..............Joe
I don't see a duckbill....nor a relief in the aftermarket stock for it. Which was what got me wondering. It looks like an AK mag with a standard release....I have five USA duckbill mags. :)
The stock looks like a Ram-Line....but mine has a lot more taken out for the duckbill....it's not much of a pic to work with. I don't want to pay for correspondence to her....as she probably was just using it as a prop anyway.
Quote from: XXXSKS on February 20, 2016, 03:42:36 AM
Quote from: Justin Hell on February 11, 2016, 11:34:04 PM
I wonder if that is what this is....the mag release intrigued me among other things....unfortunately, you probably have to be a member of her site to see the rest of the gun....and other stuff. :)
Really? Justin Justin Justin. You have never seen a USA duckbill mag? ;)
8)..............Joe
I was gonna say that too, lol. But in Justin's defense, I do agree that I can't see the forward cutout in that stock. But that's definitely a stamped duckbill and a standard mag release???
Also, why do you say the bayo is not removable Joe? It looks like it has a standard bayo screw in the picture.
So another one of these has popped up on the CGN forum. Owner is looking for price opinions. Exact same gun as in the first post. He says he has a couple still in the bag. 5 digit serial number looks like 37812 or 17812. Hard to tell in the photos.
I asked him where he got them, and he said they came from Lever Arms around 1997 or so. These may have been some of the ones made after the US import ban.
Quote from: Justin Hell on February 20, 2016, 09:02:42 AM
I don't see a duckbill....nor a relief in the aftermarket stock for it. Which was what got me wondering. It looks like an AK mag with a standard release....I have five USA duckbill mags. :)
Do you have an AK mag for a comparison to the USA Brand SKS duckbill mag?
(http://i423.photobucket.com/albums/pp320/javlin34x/mag_zpswcs3ne9c.jpg)
8)..........................Joe
Did some google searching. There is a company in California that has ties to China called "X-Z Labs". They have a National Security division and even have pictures of Chinese police on a photo real that auto plays on their website. Could be a link to this variant of the SKS-D. The website speak of engineering assets in China.
http://www.x-zlab.com/industries-we-serve/national-security/
Looks like they are more into manufacturing radiation detecting equipment now.
Not 100% sure this is the right XZ, but figured it was worth mentioning.
Quote from: fenceline on February 21, 2016, 07:00:10 PM
Did some google searching. There is a company in California that has ties to China called "X-Z Labs". They have a National Security division and even have pictures of Chinese police on a photo real that auto plays on their website. Could be a link to this variant of the SKS-D. The website speak of engineering assets in China.
http://www.x-zlab.com/industries-we-serve/national-security/
Looks like they are more into manufacturing radiation detecting equipment now.
Not 100% sure this is the right XZ, but figured it was worth mentioning.
Definitely worth looking into. Thank you.
8)...................Joe
I have no AK or variants to compare...sure it probably is a USA mag, the absence of the duckbill in a Ram Line no less...and the normal release intrigued me. Did Ram-Line make a stock for D/M SKSs? The stock certainly looks like mine, but my duckbill recess is at least two or three inches further than what I am seeing.