SKS-FILES FORUM

SKS Carbines => Unaltered SKS Rifles => Yugoslavian SKS => Topic started by: Phosphorus32 on August 25, 2015, 09:29:45 PM

Title: Just another M59 from Dan's
Post by: Phosphorus32 on August 25, 2015, 09:29:45 PM
Title basically says it all.

A nice C-block "refurbed matching" M59 arrived today. The scrubbing of the old SN on the stock is quite apparent.  Some SNs are electro-penciled, the bolt, bolt carrier and receiver are not. Never seen the inside of a receiver cover ep'd like that.

I'm very pleased with it :)  I got my Cosmoline fix  :))

My customary deluge of pictures follows...


LEFT SIDE

(http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z475/phosphorus32/Yugo%20M59%20C%20block/IMG_1181.jpg) (http://s1191.photobucket.com/user/phosphorus32/media/Yugo%20M59%20C%20block/IMG_1181.jpg.html)

(http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z475/phosphorus32/Yugo%20M59%20C%20block/IMG_1182.jpg) (http://s1191.photobucket.com/user/phosphorus32/media/Yugo%20M59%20C%20block/IMG_1182.jpg.html)
(http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z475/phosphorus32/Yugo%20M59%20C%20block/IMG_1183.jpg) (http://s1191.photobucket.com/user/phosphorus32/media/Yugo%20M59%20C%20block/IMG_1183.jpg.html)
(http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z475/phosphorus32/Yugo%20M59%20C%20block/IMG_1184.jpg) (http://s1191.photobucket.com/user/phosphorus32/media/Yugo%20M59%20C%20block/IMG_1184.jpg.html)

RIGHT SIDE

(http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z475/phosphorus32/Yugo%20M59%20C%20block/IMG_1185.jpg) (http://s1191.photobucket.com/user/phosphorus32/media/Yugo%20M59%20C%20block/IMG_1185.jpg.html)

(http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z475/phosphorus32/Yugo%20M59%20C%20block/IMG_1186.jpg) (http://s1191.photobucket.com/user/phosphorus32/media/Yugo%20M59%20C%20block/IMG_1186.jpg.html)
(http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z475/phosphorus32/Yugo%20M59%20C%20block/IMG_1187.jpg) (http://s1191.photobucket.com/user/phosphorus32/media/Yugo%20M59%20C%20block/IMG_1187.jpg.html)

NUMBERS

(http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z475/phosphorus32/Yugo%20M59%20C%20block/IMG_1161.jpg) (http://s1191.photobucket.com/user/phosphorus32/media/Yugo%20M59%20C%20block/IMG_1161.jpg.html)

(http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z475/phosphorus32/Yugo%20M59%20C%20block/IMG_1163.jpg) (http://s1191.photobucket.com/user/phosphorus32/media/Yugo%20M59%20C%20block/IMG_1163.jpg.html)

(http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z475/phosphorus32/Yugo%20M59%20C%20block/IMG_1166.jpg) (http://s1191.photobucket.com/user/phosphorus32/media/Yugo%20M59%20C%20block/IMG_1166.jpg.html)

(http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z475/phosphorus32/Yugo%20M59%20C%20block/IMG_1173.jpg) (http://s1191.photobucket.com/user/phosphorus32/media/Yugo%20M59%20C%20block/IMG_1173.jpg.html)

(http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z475/phosphorus32/Yugo%20M59%20C%20block/IMG_1169.jpg) (http://s1191.photobucket.com/user/phosphorus32/media/Yugo%20M59%20C%20block/IMG_1169.jpg.html)
(http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z475/phosphorus32/Yugo%20M59%20C%20block/IMG_1170.jpg) (http://s1191.photobucket.com/user/phosphorus32/media/Yugo%20M59%20C%20block/IMG_1170.jpg.html)
(http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z475/phosphorus32/Yugo%20M59%20C%20block/IMG_1172.jpg) (http://s1191.photobucket.com/user/phosphorus32/media/Yugo%20M59%20C%20block/IMG_1172.jpg.html)
(http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z475/phosphorus32/Yugo%20M59%20C%20block/IMG_1175.jpg) (http://s1191.photobucket.com/user/phosphorus32/media/Yugo%20M59%20C%20block/IMG_1175.jpg.html)

(http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z475/phosphorus32/Yugo%20M59%20C%20block/IMG_1174.jpg) (http://s1191.photobucket.com/user/phosphorus32/media/Yugo%20M59%20C%20block/IMG_1174.jpg.html)

(http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z475/phosphorus32/Yugo%20M59%20C%20block/IMG_1178.jpg) (http://s1191.photobucket.com/user/phosphorus32/media/Yugo%20M59%20C%20block/IMG_1178.jpg.html)

(http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z475/phosphorus32/Yugo%20M59%20C%20block/IMG_1180.jpg) (http://s1191.photobucket.com/user/phosphorus32/media/Yugo%20M59%20C%20block/IMG_1180.jpg.html)

INTERNALS

(http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z475/phosphorus32/Yugo%20M59%20C%20block/IMG_1167.jpg) (http://s1191.photobucket.com/user/phosphorus32/media/Yugo%20M59%20C%20block/IMG_1167.jpg.html)

NICE CLEAN BOLT FACE

(http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z475/phosphorus32/Yugo%20M59%20C%20block/IMG_1177.jpg) (http://s1191.photobucket.com/user/phosphorus32/media/Yugo%20M59%20C%20block/IMG_1177.jpg.html)

Look at that horrible bluing wear...I want my money back  cry1  rofl
(http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z475/phosphorus32/Yugo%20M59%20C%20block/IMG_1179.jpg) (http://s1191.photobucket.com/user/phosphorus32/media/Yugo%20M59%20C%20block/IMG_1179.jpg.html)

ACCESSORIES

(http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z475/phosphorus32/Yugo%20M59%20C%20block/IMG_1188.jpg) (http://s1191.photobucket.com/user/phosphorus32/media/Yugo%20M59%20C%20block/IMG_1188.jpg.html)
(http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z475/phosphorus32/Yugo%20M59%20C%20block/IMG_1189.jpg) (http://s1191.photobucket.com/user/phosphorus32/media/Yugo%20M59%20C%20block/IMG_1189.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Just another M59 from Dan's
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on August 25, 2015, 09:37:04 PM
Very nice..  Whats your impression of the m59?
Title: Re: Just another M59 from Dan's
Post by: Greasemonkey on August 25, 2015, 10:13:01 PM
Another nice one thumb1

Now that 5 or so have been posted...and I'm intrigued, think1 seems all the serials are freshly stamped, show white metal, or like they were stamped through the blueing, much like the import stamp.
Both of my serials are blued, like they were stamped and then blued. 

(http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af283/C13mechanic/m59/SAM_0624_zpsuxti0umo.jpg) (http://s1016.photobucket.com/user/C13mechanic/media/m59/SAM_0624_zpsuxti0umo.jpg.html)
(http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af283/C13mechanic/m59/m59b/SAM_0854_zpsq9r16zf8.jpg) (http://s1016.photobucket.com/user/C13mechanic/media/m59/m59b/SAM_0854_zpsq9r16zf8.jpg.html)

P32, not singling your out, and most certainly not trying to thread jack ya, it's just something I've noticed in this run of imports. thumb1

Just begs the question, are they fresh stamped serials, every one I'm seeing seems to have nice, decent blueing, If they were reblued during refurb, why ain't that serial blued, not fresh looking silver metal matching the import stamp, if the rifle was refurbed, wouldn't it already have a serial, they would simply be blued over. Or, are the receivers N.O.S. and are they recycled some serials of known past destroyed rifles, building complete rifles at a later time? Why would some M59s be serial stamped prior to blueing while others are stamped after blueing? The import stamp I can excuse being fresh looking, given it was just done, and I don't see an importer going through the trouble of altering the serial that way.
Title: Re: Just another M59 from Dan's
Post by: running-man on August 25, 2015, 10:20:02 PM
GM, good catch!   thumb1

The serials on these new guns are etched, stenciled, or engraved, not stamped like yours.  (Same with the import stamp, though I think you're right, shouldn't be any correlation between the two).  There have been quite a few I've seen over the years that have been marked like this.  Lemme see what I can dig up...
Title: Re: Just another M59 from Dan's
Post by: armedhippie on August 25, 2015, 10:44:21 PM
Oh Just another M59 eh?  rofl A refurb I'd be proud to have Phos  thumb1

Yugo's are known for there part #'s every where but that's the 1st time I've seen a fresh looking EP'd parts # on the receiver cover. Its the usual number, but they usually look stenciled or stamped from what I've seen.

These are definitely interesting and gorgeous as well.
Title: Re: Just another M59 from Dan's
Post by: Greasemonkey on August 25, 2015, 10:57:21 PM
Quote from: running-man on August 25, 2015, 10:20:02 PM
GM, good catch!   thumb1

The serials on these new guns are etched, stenciled, or engraved, not stamped like yours.  (Same with the import stamp, though I think you're right, shouldn't be any correlation between the two).  There have been quite a few I've seen over the years that have been marked like this.  Lemme see what I can dig up...

I've seen one or two others serial etched over the years, but never gave it any thought, but the raw metal against the dark finish, all of them at once, from the same time frame, crates and importer. It just something that stood out, ok, it screams, look, I'm a fresh serial number. think1

Like I said, I just don't see an importer spending the time and energy diddling with the serial. It's pretty much readable by anyone, stamped and blued, which is good enough for the ATF.
Title: Re: Just another M59 from Dan's
Post by: running-man on August 25, 2015, 11:27:44 PM
Do you think, to get them to look this nice (and Jon, that is a *beautiful* looking carbine by the way thumb1), they took a fair cut of metal off the receiver and simply re-etched/engraved the numbers right back over top of the old S/N after it was blued?  The after blued portion is the only thing that makes sense to me to get the deep portions of the numbers bare metal like that. 

Maybe a calipers measurement is in order and see if we have a consistent difference in width of the receiver where the S/N would be on a refurb vs. one with bluing at the bottom of the stamp?
Title: Re: Just another M59 from Dan's
Post by: Phosphorus32 on August 25, 2015, 11:35:46 PM
Interesting.  Yeah, I misspoke about the receiver serial number.  It's some kind of electropencil, perhaps with a template  ??? because it sure is nicely done.  It's very different from the importers mark which has the at stippled look like it was a pin stamp (or whatever the method is...way out of my realm of knowledge here). It's slightly raised from "Brinneling".  The receiver SN is shallow but slightly rough.  The SNs on the bolt and bolt carrier are smooth to the touch.  They look like laser engraving, or chemical etching with a template maybe? For what it's worth, note that the assembly numbers on the bottom of the receiver and barrel are blued.  Look at the part numbers and it's clear that the different suppliers used just about every combination of marking, stamping, etching, ep, before or after bluing.  Interesting stuff.

(http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z475/phosphorus32/Yugo%20M59%20C%20block/IMG_1168.jpg) (http://s1191.photobucket.com/user/phosphorus32/media/Yugo%20M59%20C%20block/IMG_1168.jpg.html)

Looking at the receiver rail with a lighted magnifying glass I don't see any evidence of a prior SN.  The receiver does have a brushed appearance running parallel to the rails.  Also, note that there is high edge wear and scuffs in the bluing on various parts including the receiver, so it saw some use after the first/last bluing before storage in Cosmoline.
Title: Re: Just another M59 from Dan's
Post by: Greasemonkey on August 25, 2015, 11:53:05 PM
Quote from: running-man on August 25, 2015, 11:27:44 PM
Do you think, to get them to look this nice (and Jon, that is a *beautiful* looking carbine by the way thumb1), they took a fair cut of metal off the receiver and simply re-etched/engraved the numbers right back over top of the old S/N after it was blued?  The after blued portion is the only thing that makes sense to me to get the deep portions of the numbers bare metal like that. 

Maybe a calipers measurement is in order and see if we have a consistent difference in width of the receiver where the S/N would be on a refurb vs. one with bluing at the bottom of the stamp?

Don't know if that will tell the tale exactly, I drug out my screw micrometer, right at the serial on the B is .116 thick, the C is .118 thick, so just in two rifles, a .002 difference.


Wonder if it's not electro pencil, but maybe a laser etch, the black {BK} maybe laser etched, as is the bolt, the numbers are just too perfect to be hand done. The trigger guard, hand electropenciled.
Title: Re: Just another M59 from Dan's
Post by: Phosphorus32 on August 26, 2015, 12:06:25 AM
The brushed appearance is identical on both sides of the receiver, so I don't think that's indicative of grinding the left rail, just general finishing work.

Is there a difference in the appearance and type of engraving of the serial numbers in this C block as they move up from 24,000 to 49,000?
Title: Re: Just another M59 from Dan's
Post by: Phosphorus32 on August 26, 2015, 12:12:15 AM
Hey, thanks for all the compliments everyone  :)  I'm very happy with this little beauty. 

LC, I'm impressed with the quality of these Yugos and I do like the more original look of the M59 vs. the M59/66(A1).  The bayonet is definitely distinctive.  Of course now that I"m getting a fairly good representation of the basic variants in my collection, I'm feeling an increasing need to add a Romanian and an Albanian  :o
Title: Re: Just another M59 from Dan's
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on August 26, 2015, 12:13:42 AM
 rofl

vroomvroom
Title: Re: Just another M59 from Dan's
Post by: Greasemonkey on August 26, 2015, 12:22:47 AM
Quote from: Phosphorus32 on August 26, 2015, 12:06:25 AM

Is there a difference in the appearance and type of engraving of the serial numbers in this C block as they move up from 24,000 to 49,000?

Or, is it a refurb doing, maybe the etching is over the previously stamped number, it would be tedious work, but with a machine and a jig, maybe it's doable.  Ok, I went and dug my M59/66 out, it's the plain 'ol stamped and blued over cry1, not etched and fresh metal.

Quote from: Phosphorus32 on August 26, 2015, 12:12:15 AM
I'm feeling an increasing need to add a Romanian and an Albanian  :o

Romy,  yeeeah, banana time Albanian  banana time   Do it, a nice one, or better yet, two :o thumb1 of each to photo, something drool drool2 drool2 all over
Title: Re: Just another M59 from Dan's
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on August 26, 2015, 12:29:07 AM
You guys are baaaaaad!     Why do I have the urge to buy another sks?   bat1
Title: Re: Just another M59 from Dan's
Post by: MEBears on August 26, 2015, 06:54:22 AM
Congrats, another nice one! I was also wondering about the receivers being replaced. Mine has a part number which I read somewhere is the sure sign of a replacement part.
Title: Re: Just another M59 from Dan's
Post by: SKhiSm 59-66A1 on August 26, 2015, 07:55:55 AM
I have liked all of them that have been posted so far but I have to say Phos the one you got I'm particularly partial to, and yes it has a great bayo hung on it.  clap1 clap1 thumb1

btw it appears you missed a small dollop of cosmo in the dimple of your receiver cover latch  rofl great pics  clap1
Title: Re: Just another M59 from Dan's
Post by: Phosphorus32 on August 26, 2015, 09:41:36 AM
Quote from: MEBears on August 26, 2015, 06:54:22 AM
Congrats, another nice one! I was also wondering about the receivers being replaced. Mine has a part number which I read somewhere is the sure sign of a replacement part.
Thanks! 

My receiver has a part number on the bottom too.  Yet, the matching assembly numbers on the barrel shank and receiver suggest that it's original, or they replaced the entire barreled-receiver, which seems like replacing the rifle to me...I don't know.  We need some more exhaustive pictorial data sets  geezer1  :))

(http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z475/phosphorus32/Yugo%20M59%20C%20block/IMG_1162.jpg) (http://s1191.photobucket.com/user/phosphorus32/media/Yugo%20M59%20C%20block/IMG_1162.jpg.html)

(http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z475/phosphorus32/Yugo%20M59%20C%20block/IMG_1161.jpg) (http://s1191.photobucket.com/user/phosphorus32/media/Yugo%20M59%20C%20block/IMG_1161.jpg.html)

Quote from: SKhiSm 59-66A1 on August 26, 2015, 07:55:55 AM
I have liked all of them that have been posted so far but I have to say Phos the one you got I'm particularly partial to, and yes it has a great bayo hung on it.  clap1 clap1 thumb1

btw it appears you missed a small dollop of cosmo in the dimple of your receiver cover latch  rofl great pics  clap1

Thanks!  :) 

Yeah, I left that bit of Tectyl 502C there to see if everyone was studying the pictures...good catch   clap1  rofl

(http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z475/phosphorus32/Yugo%20M59%20C%20block/IMG_1218.jpg) (http://s1191.photobucket.com/user/phosphorus32/media/Yugo%20M59%20C%20block/IMG_1218.jpg.html)

TECTYL 502C CLASS 1

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Intended Use: Tectyl 502C Class 1 is designed to protect ferrous and non-ferrous parts for indoor or covered storage and during shipment.

TECTYL 502C CLASS 1 - Buy Online Now! TECTYL 502C CLASS 1 Usually ... (http://www.mil-specproducts.com/products/TECTYL-502C,-CLASS-I)
Title: Re: Just another M59 from Dan's
Post by: Greasemonkey on August 26, 2015, 11:43:29 AM
Got me wondering, were these maybe from the same place as the G10, Bosnian import M59/66 in almost M59 configuration.  As I understand, they had new barrels, and didn't use standardized Yugo serial numbers. So, were they new receivers, they didn't look scrubbed, and the serials are blued as well, if my febble memory serves.

I mean a new etched number on a "reblued" refurb, not stamped. But yet, barrel and receiver match, and the hidden barrel and reciever numbers are, blued.....Hinky!!!  And if it were a refurb, it would have been serial stamped way back when, so why reetch, the same number??

The plot thickens.... :o :)
Title: Re: Just another M59 from Dan's
Post by: bbush44 on August 26, 2015, 12:13:13 PM
Very Nice Phos! I hope to clean mine up soon and get some better pictures. Your photoshoots are always top notch.  thumb1

Interesting find there GM.  clap1
Title: Re: Just another M59 from Dan's
Post by: Greasemonkey on August 26, 2015, 12:28:12 PM
Quote from: bbush44 on August 26, 2015, 12:13:13 PM
Very Nice Phos! I hope to clean mine up soon and get some better pictures. Your photoshoots are always top notch.  thumb1

Interesting find there GM.  clap1

Yeah, P32 does do some nice sexy gun photos, I can see him in the backyard, screaming, WORK IT, click, click, come on girl, WORK IT for P32..click  fart1 rofl

Me thinks I might smell a Yugo serial survey a comin soon to your favorite forum.... :)
Title: Re: Just another M59 from Dan's
Post by: Phosphorus32 on August 26, 2015, 12:50:02 PM
Quote from: Greasemonkey on August 26, 2015, 11:43:29 AM
Got me wondering, were these maybe from the same place as the G10, Bosnian import M59/66 in almost M59 configuration.  As I understand, they had new barrels, and didn't use standardized Yugo serial numbers. So, were they new receivers, they didn't look scrubbed, and the serials are blued as well, if my febble memory serves.

I mean a new etched number on a "reblued" refurb, not stamped. But yet, barrel and receiver match, and the hidden barrel and reciever numbers are, blued.....Hinky!!!  And if it were a refurb, it would have been serial stamped way back when, so why reetch, the same number??

The plot thickens.... :o :)
Interesting, I hadn't heard of those:
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=F3YugoSKS

My barrel isn't new.  It's in good shape with deep sharp rifling.  But it also has some scattered small pits.  The receiver also has a bit of pitting (see the receiver SN pic) and some scrapes. 

If these are newer (1991-2005, after Slovenian independence, pre-storage date) Slovenian assemblies then they must have been from old parts, perhaps without any SNs since they have the part number on the bottom of the receiver and the odd etched SN, perhaps old used parts judging from the bore. 

I'm still not seeing any story line that is convincing.  Definitely an odd combination of features in any case.  It seems at least rational and plausible that Slovenia, with limited access to arms after establishing independence from Yugoslavia/Serbia, may have put together all available weapons it could from whatever parts were on hand, so maybe these are later assemblies.  They certainly weren't getting any more of these Yugoslavian SKSs or any other weapons from Serbia after 1991, and the other break away republics needed everything they could get their hands on, so I doubt Slovenia which escaped Yugoslavia with relatively light fighting received any SKSs from Bosnia or Croatia.  Did Slovenia have a refurb facility when Yugoslavia was intact?  What was it's designation? We can eliminate TRB and TRZ in Bosnia and Serbia, respectively.  My stock at least went through TRZ at one point.

(http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z475/phosphorus32/Yugo%20M59%20C%20block/IMG_1174.jpg) (http://s1191.photobucket.com/user/phosphorus32/media/Yugo%20M59%20C%20block/IMG_1174.jpg.html)

Like I said, none of the story lines convince me, not even any I can come up with.  We need more data!  :))
Title: Re: Just another M59 from Dan's
Post by: Phosphorus32 on August 26, 2015, 12:52:21 PM
Quote from: Greasemonkey on August 26, 2015, 12:28:12 PM
Quote from: bbush44 on August 26, 2015, 12:13:13 PM
Very Nice Phos! I hope to clean mine up soon and get some better pictures. Your photoshoots are always top notch.  thumb1

Interesting find there GM.  clap1

Yeah, P32 does do some nice sexy gun photos, I can see him in the backyard, screaming, WORK IT, click, click, come on girl, WORK IT for P32..click  fart1 rofl

Me thinks I might smell a Yugo serial survey a comin soon to your favorite forum.... :)

rofl  Thanks Brian and GM!  My auburn Yugoslavian beauty worked her magic and I just captured the moments  chuckles1
Title: Re: Just another M59 from Dan's
Post by: John Galt on August 26, 2015, 04:11:44 PM
Nice one Phos thumb1  Your bayonet looks darker than others.  Great pics as usual!

John Galt
Title: Re: Just another M59 from Dan's
Post by: Phosphorus32 on August 26, 2015, 06:35:09 PM
Quote from: John Galt on August 26, 2015, 04:11:44 PM
Nice one Phos thumb1  Your bayonet looks darker than others.  Great pics as usual!

John Galt

Thanks John!  It was a sunny day yesterday, so despite working in the shade the colors are off to varying degrees.  The bayonet is a light to medium gray.  I think the pictures of the right side capture the color of the bayonet more accurately.