I'm not even sure where to ask this.....but here goes. In 1999...I spent three months in Aviano, Italy during Operation Allied Force. During my time there...they had us in the proverbial "Tent City". Where they scraped away the earth to make it bigger, I did some walking and looking (I'm a rock hound) and found this....no idea.....It's lead....multi ribbed with what appears to be a brass rim in the base with a hollow spot.....has anyone ever seen anything like this before???
(http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z348/padams8888/DSC01551_zps8zkxdmra.jpg) (http://s1185.photobucket.com/user/padams8888/media/DSC01551_zps8zkxdmra.jpg.html)
(http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z348/padams8888/DSC01553_zpsp5zkhtuz.jpg) (http://s1185.photobucket.com/user/padams8888/media/DSC01553_zpsp5zkhtuz.jpg.html)
(http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z348/padams8888/DSC01554_zpsxo2wgq5j.jpg) (http://s1185.photobucket.com/user/padams8888/media/DSC01554_zpsxo2wgq5j.jpg.html)
(http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z348/padams8888/DSC01558_zpsmfb3kneq.jpg) (http://s1185.photobucket.com/user/padams8888/media/DSC01558_zpsmfb3kneq.jpg.html)
I admit....my only micrometer is digital and the battery is dead (I'm a slacker...lol) so I dont have a diameter.....but it looks to be roughly .500???
Italian 10.4mm Vetterli bullet?
Do you have a micrometer to measure length and diameter?
Just use a ruler. 1" = 25.4mm
A 10.4mm Vetterli is about the same as a .41 mag or Spl bullet at .4095"
My digital mic is down....it almost fits into a 50 BMG case....still a hair bigger...and exactly 2 inches long. It goes past 640 gr. on my scale and then OL's.
Is it possible it is a .540" muzzle loader bullet?
Yeah, that does not sound anywhere close to a bullet from any modern Italian, Austrian or Serbian rifle cartridge.
Looks like a strange muzzleloader bullet with a gas check? JD? Needs to look at it..
That would be one stout (heavy) muzzle loader bullet.......640 plus gr. They make them that heavy?
Looks like there are lots of calibers that large. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rifle_cartridges
Maybe the 15.2mm Steyr
Being in black powder, it looks like nothing I've seen.
But, and I gotta say it, it looks kinda like some kind of masonry wall anchor. Being lead, having a metal insert, gripping grooves. Ok, you can laugh now.
Quote from: padams8888 on August 20, 2015, 08:56:00 PM
That would be one stout (heavy) muzzle loader bullet.......640 plus gr. They make them that heavy?
A majority of Civil War rifles, like the .58 musket, or .577 Enfield ran around 530grain, then you get up in to .69 cal, which even with it being larger, ran about the same bullet weight. Some slightly more modern compairsons, a standard 45-70 Govt will max out weight wise at about 500grain, a .50-100, .50-110 Sharps your getting close to 600grain, a plain jane .50bmg 670-700 grain, A 4bore black powder ball, about 1 inch in diameter, your pushing 1750grains, a quarter pound.
Is there not rifling grooves towards the rear?
(http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z348/padams8888/DSC01551_zps8zkxdmra.jpg)
It would be hilarious as a BP tracer bullet... :P
So how deep is the cavity inside?
It looks like the rifling marks continue on the front set of rings, too... same angle and spaced approximately the same.
Rifling up until the 1800s was uncommon, there were a few weapons that were, but they were custom jobs. Most everything up to the the 1830s give or take 10-20 years was typically smoothbore. And alot of smooth bore rifles were used even in our civil war.
Most large black powder rifles, like the 1853 Enfield musket have a twist of 78 to 1, some other rifles have slightly more, some slightly less. A slow rifling twist was used for large heavy slow moving blobs of lead, plus it assisted with loading, considering the rifling was cutting during loading from the muzzle. The typical muzzle velocity for these big caliber black powder rifles ran 800 to a 1000 fps, depending on how hot you loaded her up. And then you have paper patching, another common practice, in that case, the bullet didnt realy take the rifling, the paper took up clearance between the actual bullet and bore, so usually the bullet was spinning when fired, but had no rifling marks.
Quote from: Loose}{Cannon on August 20, 2015, 07:39:46 PM
Looks like a strange muzzleloader bullet with a gas check? JD? Needs to look at it..
Diameter is too small to be a gas check...but this thing is a real mystery.
Fishing weight.
Quote from: Loose}{Cannon on August 25, 2015, 01:56:14 PM
Fishing weight.
LOL...
I'm starting to think GM might be on the right track with the wall anchor idea! Markings are too inconsistant for rifling in my opinion.
GM thinks its a time released cyanide butt-capsule.
Quote from: Loose}{Cannon on August 25, 2015, 02:22:28 PM
GM thinks its a time released cyanide butt-capsule.
That being the case....I probably should be wearing gloves....:)
I would have to rule out a wall anchor as well....as the hole in the base is only about 1/4 to 3/8 deep. It definitely has distinct rifling marks that line up on the first two sets of checks.....as far as the rear...it appears to be smaller in diameter than the front.....
Wall anchor, no
WWII Nazi lead cyanide suicide butt capsule, in case of capture, insert.....maybe??
Lets try, old lead weight from a fishing net...for $200 Alex..
Plutonium capsule? The led shielding would make sense.
Quote from: Greasemonkey on August 29, 2015, 12:46:46 AM
Wall anchor, no
WWII Nazi lead cyanide suicide butt capsule, in case of capture, insert.....maybe??
Lets try, old lead weight from a fishing net...for $200 Alex..
Aviano is in the Mountains no where near the Mediterranean or even a large lake so I don't think the lead weight is valid either.
What you have thar is a rather large tie-base cartridge. thumb1
(http://www.mcpheetersantiquemilitaria.com/06_ammunition/06images/0793chassepot11_2.JPG)
(http://thumbs1.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/m2a8I2JeqlUJL6R-UgUI8nw.jpg)
(http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1081104&d=1416278598&thumb=1)
Quote from: Greatguns on August 29, 2015, 12:55:59 PM
Quote from: Greasemonkey on August 29, 2015, 12:46:46 AM
Wall anchor, no
WWII Nazi lead cyanide suicide butt capsule, in case of capture, insert.....maybe??
Lets try, old lead weight from a fishing net...for $200 Alex..
Aviano is in the Mountains no where near the Mediterranean or even a large lake so I don't think the lead weight is valid either.
Mountain goat breeding device, goat birth control?
Quote from: Greasemonkey on August 30, 2015, 12:46:14 AM
Quote from: Greatguns on August 29, 2015, 12:55:59 PM
Quote from: Greasemonkey on August 29, 2015, 12:46:46 AM
Wall anchor, no
WWII Nazi lead cyanide suicide butt capsule, in case of capture, insert.....maybe??
Lets try, old lead weight from a fishing net...for $200 Alex..
Aviano is in the Mountains no where near the Mediterranean or even a large lake so I don't think the lead weight is valid either.
Mountain goat breeding device, goat birth control?
IED-IUD? ??? chuckles1
I win. rofl
Quote from: Loose}{Cannon on September 07, 2015, 10:56:10 AM
I win. rofl
Well, maybe...maybe not, problem is, the copper insert. Most black powder bullets of the early era were smelted and formed in hand molds. Simplicity, and no real need for the added "copper" insert when the bullet base itself could support the string, I did find an example of a .52 Sharps Gomex & Mills patented "multi-groove" bullet with an odd looking base, but, like a typical big bore blackpowder weapon, the bullet dimensions are way off, most, unlike what the OP posted, pretty much most all are fairly short and stumpy with a large diameter. The bullets used during the Civil War and earlier that used paper cartridges had the string/paper tie groove cast directly into the bullet base itself. All that was required was an alteration to the mold for the groove, no inserts, no extra materials required.
CW-bullet-carbine (http://www.thomaspublications.com/CW-bullet-carbine.html)
There is always the slim chance, it's a custom job from back in the day, as most could possibly cast and mold their own if needed, especially if they had a caliber not found in the particular area or region they were in. Desperate times employed desperate measures.
It came from overseas. You have a list of all those 150 year old calibers and how they were constructed?
Quote from: Loose}{Cannon on September 08, 2015, 02:14:25 PM
It came from overseas. You have a list of all those 150 year old calibers and how they were constructed?
Nope, do you, do you have your handy dandy pocket sized 150years of foreign black powder bullet ID. flip chart ver. 9.52 available in 22 different languages documenting it or are you just puffing out "assuming" that it is, what you say it is.
Pulling the 'ol truth is what I say the truth is, huh...I've heard that from..... Besplode
Like I said, it may or may "NOT" be, there is always a slim chance one way, or the other, and no definitive true blue proof. Repeat after me "I have no clue". thumb1
Quotedo you have your handy dandy pocket sized 150years of foreign black powder bullet ID. flip chart ver. 9.52 available in 22 different languages documenting it
Oh for **** sakes....thats what I'm asking you!!!
Its a gd projectile that is likely from a rear-tie type cartridge. I never claimed to know nor did I state the exact name, caliber, and gun that shot it. Thats your ****ing job mr.caliberman.