I've been reading some of the mag adapter drama, and have a question...
What is the point of a mag adapter, if you have to use modified magazines?
I definitely see the appeal for being able to use production mags.... i.e the factory AK mag guns. But if you have to use mags specially modified to work with the various adapters...what's the appeal? How is that any different from using a duckbill?
Duckbills are bulky and odd shaped. They are also extremely easy to fumble around with and very difficult to lock in. The bill is crazy easy to chop off and it runs exactly like your AK mag commercial guns.
Quote from: Power Surge on July 27, 2015, 10:35:00 PM
I've been reading some of the mag adapter drama, and have a question...
What is the point of a mag adapter, if you have to use modified magazines?
I definitely see the appeal for being able to use production mags.... i.e the factory AK mag guns. But if you have to use mags specially modified to work with the various adapters...what's the appeal? How is that any different from using a duckbill?
Haters are going to hate!
Also, its damned near impossible to find any pouches or chest rigs to work with the duckbills except for maybe strike hard gear. By eliminating the duck bill you can pretty much use just about any ar 15 or ak mag pouch with them.
Quote from: sksmcrossvilletn on July 30, 2015, 04:42:43 AM
Quote from: Power Surge on July 27, 2015, 10:35:00 PM
I've been reading some of the mag adapter drama, and have a question...
What is the point of a mag adapter, if you have to use modified magazines?
I definitely see the appeal for being able to use production mags.... i.e the factory AK mag guns. But if you have to use mags specially modified to work with the various adapters...what's the appeal? How is that any different from using a duckbill?
Haters are going to hate!
Also, its damned near impossible to find any pouches or chest rigs to work with the duckbills except for maybe strike hard gear. By eliminating the duck bill you can pretty much use just about any ar 15 or ak mag pouch with them.
Why am I a hater?
Quote from: sksmcrossvilletn on July 30, 2015, 04:42:43 AM
Quote from: Power Surge on July 27, 2015, 10:35:00 PM
I've been reading some of the mag adapter drama, and have a question...
What is the point of a mag adapter, if you have to use modified magazines?
I definitely see the appeal for being able to use production mags.... i.e the factory AK mag guns. But if you have to use mags specially modified to work with the various adapters...what's the appeal? How is that any different from using a duckbill?
Haters are going to hate!
Also, its damned near impossible to find any pouches or chest rigs to work with the duckbills except for maybe strike hard gear. By eliminating the duck bill you can pretty much use just about any ar 15 or ak mag pouch with them.
Ain't no hate here, just a simple question was being asked. No need to swell up and call names and be a wise azz. bat1
It makes no sense to me, either, but thats beside the point, to each their own.
Quote from: Power Surge on July 30, 2015, 09:21:14 AM
Quote from: sksmcrossvilletn on July 30, 2015, 04:42:43 AM
Quote from: Power Surge on July 27, 2015, 10:35:00 PM
I've been reading some of the mag adapter drama, and have a question...
What is the point of a mag adapter, if you have to use modified magazines?
I definitely see the appeal for being able to use production mags.... i.e the factory AK mag guns. But if you have to use mags specially modified to work with the various adapters...what's the appeal? How is that any different from using a duckbill?
Haters are going to hate!
Also, its damned near impossible to find any pouches or chest rigs to work with the duckbills except for maybe strike hard gear. By eliminating the duck bill you can pretty much use just about any ar 15 or ak mag pouch with them.
Why am I a hater?
Sarcasm! I was trying to be funny. Didnt realize yall had such thin skin. Sorry!
Trust me, we rag on each other plenty here. Your comment didn't seem in jest to me, that's all.
I'm just trying to understand the allure. If the shtf, a stock sks needs nothing but ammo. You don't even need strippers to load it. And ak mag sks can use one of the millions of ak mags out there. But these adapter guns need modded mags, so if you have a few of them and they get lost or broken, you're out of luck. And let's face it, duckbill mags aren't exactly the most well built things in the world.
Power Surge, I'm with ya on the stock mag. I guess I'm a dinosaur when it comes to high cap mags in general. I don't like the way they stick down and make it hard to rest the rifle, I hate loading them, I hate the weight of them. I've got a couple of duck bills for when I feel like being stupid with my ammo, and mine happen to work good, but I almost never use them.
I've got my one and only bubba-gun, which looks like it oughta have a 30 rounder on it, but I left a stock mag on it, which leaves some ambiguity as to it's legality. ::) Hell, if I ever get me an AR, I don't want more than a ten rounder on it. jd
Quote from: Power Surge on July 30, 2015, 12:39:31 PM
Trust me, we rag on each other plenty here. Your comment didn't seem in jest to me, that's all.
I'm just trying to understand the allure. If the shtf, a stock sks needs nothing but ammo. You don't even need strippers to load it. And ak mag sks can use one of the millions of ak mags out there. But these adapter guns need modded mags, so if you have a few of them and they get lost or broken, you're out of luck. And let's face it, duckbill mags aren't exactly the most well built things in the world.
The adapters we sell have run 99.99% of the time. That .01 we can attribute to the ammo, not the mag or the adapter. We changed the geometry of the angle the bullet heads to the chamber. It is 'pitched' up more, giving it a better chance to chamber. I have run many thousands of rounds through our modified mags. Not one single mag has failed, broken or worn out. If I were to trust my life to the SKS if SHTF, I sure want more firepower and easier loads. The DBL mags allow you to carry perhaps twice the rounds, in mags, on your vest, that a duckbill mag will allow, and gives you the audible 'click' when it latches home. If you were to try one, you would change in a moment.
Marcus
Quote from: Power Surge on July 30, 2015, 12:39:31 PM
Trust me, we rag on each other plenty here. Your comment didn't seem in jest to me, that's all.
I'm just trying to understand the allure. If the shtf, a stock sks needs nothing but ammo. You don't even need strippers to load it. And ak mag sks can use one of the millions of ak mags out there. But these adapter guns need modded mags, so if you have a few of them and they get lost or broken, you're out of luck. And let's face it, duckbill mags aren't exactly the most well built things in the world.
Well again my apologies! I undesrtand. I guess if yoy wanted metal mags then the g9 would be good to use!
I aint being doubtful, but if my azz was on the line and since SHTF subject was brought up, I would have faith in something designed from the word go for a hicap mag. Personally that .01% chance of failure in no way tickles my tailhole with a feather. I can see the enjoyment of playing and wasting ammo at the range with them, but come life or death azz in a sling, crunch time, I would choose the Ak or a Vz58s 50+year old design proven in thousands of third world conflicts to an adapter.
I know, thousands of gun ranges with these things over the past few years dont lie, but millions of Ak users, duability tests, abuse around the world over the past 50-60 years cant be wrong either. I also know like was said, .01% cause funky ammo, any weapon built/ammo made can suffer that failure rate. Any human made device or mechanical item can. It's a mind set I guess for me, simple basic design vs. reengineering a design to do what the simple basic design does, I'm just a simple basic minded person, afraid of....... hope & change, and I'm lazy. rofl2
But, thats just my opinion, pure ramblings from a total goofball. :o. :-[ ok, let the flaming of GM begin. fart1
This should speak volumes about marcus mag adapter with tapco mags!
https://youtu.be/XwWpxuimy28 (https://youtu.be/XwWpxuimy28)
Of course dude with the tapco mags never went prone really but good inidication of how they perform!
I'm not questioning if mag adapters work or not. I'm just trying to understand why somebody would go that route and limit themselves to special magazines, instead of just getting an SKS that uses AK mags.
Quote from: Power Surge on July 31, 2015, 07:43:07 AM
I'm not questioning if mag adapters work or not. I'm just trying to understand why somebody would go that route and limit themselves to special magazines, instead of just getting an SKS that uses AK mags.
I have both and do like the ak mag one the best. I also have an ak. I will be using the one with adapter that runs tapco mags strictly for hunting (yotes, pigs, and deer).
I guess one reasoning behind it could be the polymer mags are lighter to carry in chest rigs. If i carry 30 rounders for my ak in a chest rig it is bulgarin circle 10's. If i carry metal mags in the chest rig it is hungarian or korean 20 round tanker mags as they weigh less! If i carry polymer mags for my sks sporter that takes ak mags i prefer the polish polymer slab sides with steel reinforcements!
Quote from: sksmcrossvilletn on July 31, 2015, 07:58:06 AM
I guess one reasoning behind it could be the polymer mags are lighter to carry in chest rigs. If i carry 30 rounders for my ak in a chest rig it is bulgarin circle 10's. If i carry metal mags in the chest rig it is hungarian or korean 20 round tanker mags as they weigh less! If i carry polymer mags for my sks sporter that takes ak mags i prefer the polish polymer slab sides with steel reinforcements!
Weight, a Vz58 is already a pound lighter than an Ak, just over 2 pounds lighter than an SKS, even with a machined reciever. The standard issue factory 30rd Vz 58 mags are aluminum, and weigh 6 ounces which is roughly about what a high dollar polymer Ak mag weighs. Even the Finnish plastic/polymer Ak mags weigh 6.5 ounces.
Quote from: Power Surge on July 31, 2015, 07:43:07 AM
I'm not questioning if mag adapters work or not. I'm just trying to understand why somebody would go that route and limit themselves to special magazines, instead of just getting an SKS that uses AK mags.
"Special mags", as in modified? Or by brand name, Tapco? Our G3 and G5 can use any mag with the DB removed. Don't all rifles take a 'special' mag? You can't run a M1A mag in a SKS, or a Fal mag in an M1A. We offer both Tapco 20 and ProMag 30's for the G3 and G5. You can purchase your own mags and easily mod them yourself.
PS, the adapter and mag in that video above is one of our G5's and a Tapco 20.
Our G9 ASC mags will run in your SKS and your x39 AR 15.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlphZl5FqwQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlphZl5FqwQ)
Marcus
Special mags as in you can't walk into a store and buy a mag that works with an adapter, or for the shtf crowd a mag that you're going to find laying on the ground during a crisis that works in your gun. You need special mags home made to work with the gun.
Quote from: Power Surge on July 31, 2015, 02:00:58 PM
Special mags as in you can't walk into a store and buy a mag that works with an adapter, or for the shtf crowd a mag that you're going to find laying on the ground during a crisis that works in your gun. You need special mags home made to work with the gun.
You can walk into a store and buy a mag that will work. You just cut off the DB. And conversely, (SHTF), the modified mag laying on the ground WON'T work in your SKS w/o the adapter. SO, it is of no value to you. You lost or broke your last duckbill mag. None to be found. Your rifle is now a club. Not being sarcastic here. Just presenting the "other side of that coin". And you can convert a DB mag in 5 mins or so with a hacksaw. ANY DB mag that is polymer, that runs in the SKS can be converted. Metal mags, no. Why not double your mag carrying capability and go DBL?
Marcus
Quote from: 1mlt on July 31, 2015, 03:59:58 PM
Quote from: Power Surge on July 31, 2015, 02:00:58 PM
Special mags as in you can't walk into a store and buy a mag that works with an adapter, or for the shtf crowd a mag that you're going to find laying on the ground during a crisis that works in your gun. You need special mags home made to work with the gun.
. Why not double your mag carrying capability and go DBL?
Marcus
Because I have 5 sks's that use AK mags. That was my question. Why not just buy an ak mag gun.
You-fix-em for $120 plus $100 adapter = Full M or D features for $220. :o
OR.... Regular nice chicom for $300 plus $100 adapter = $400. And you have both!!
OR... You already have a standard sks wnd $100 makes it run just like your M or D or whateva
Quote from: Power Surge on July 31, 2015, 04:06:01 PM
Quote from: 1mlt on July 31, 2015, 03:59:58 PM
Quote from: Power Surge on July 31, 2015, 02:00:58 PM
Special mags as in you can't walk into a store and buy a mag that works with an adapter, or for the shtf crowd a mag that you're going to find laying on the ground during a crisis that works in your gun. You need special mags home made to work with the gun.
. Why not double your mag carrying capability and go DBL?
Marcus
Because I have 5 sks's that use AK mags. That was my question. Why not just buy an ak mag gun.
In that case, our adapters are of no value to you. However, your AK mags won't run in a standard SKS. And ANY standard SKS mag, modified or not, won't run in your AK mag SKS's. So you DO have a special mag rifle. Same logic applies to SHTF mag pickup's.
If you already have a standard SKS, our adapters are the way to go. You don't HAVE to buy a rifle that takes the 'special' AK mags.
Again, not being sarcastic, just presenting 'options'. What LC said.
Marcus
Quote from: Loose}{Cannon on July 31, 2015, 05:04:52 PM
You-fix-em for $120 plus $100 adapter = Full M or D features for $220. :o
OR.... Regular nice chicom for $300 plus $100 adapter = $400. And you have both!!
OR... You already have a standard sks wnd $100 makes it run just like your M or D or whateva
Well that was my basis for questioning why.... $350 for a basic chinese SKS + $100-150 for adapter = $450-$500. You can buy a Sporter or an M for that kind of money and use $10 AK mags that exist by the millions all around the world.
Quote from: Power Surge on July 31, 2015, 08:18:26 PM
Quote from: Loose}{Cannon on July 31, 2015, 05:04:52 PM
You-fix-em for $120 plus $100 adapter = Full M or D features for $220. :o
OR.... Regular nice chicom for $300 plus $100 adapter = $400. And you have both!!
OR... You already have a standard sks wnd $100 makes it run just like your M or D or whateva
Well that was my basis for questioning why.... $350 for a basic chinese SKS + $100-150 for adapter = $450-$500. You can buy a Sporter or an M for that kind of money and use $10 AK mags that exist by the millions all around the world.
But they still won't work in a standard SKS. Your logic is flawed.
Marcus
Quote from: 1mlt on July 31, 2015, 09:21:48 PM
Quote from: Power Surge on July 31, 2015, 08:18:26 PM
Quote from: Loose}{Cannon on July 31, 2015, 05:04:52 PM
You-fix-em for $120 plus $100 adapter = Full M or D features for $220. :o
OR.... Regular nice chicom for $300 plus $100 adapter = $400. And you have both!!
OR... You already have a standard sks wnd $100 makes it run just like your M or D or whateva
Well that was my basis for questioning why.... $350 for a basic chinese SKS + $100-150 for adapter = $450-$500. You can buy a Sporter or an M for that kind of money and use $10 AK mags that exist by the millions all around the world.
But they still won't work in a standard SKS. Your logic is flawed.
Marcus
Marcus, with all due respect (which honestly isn't much the way you're handling the canadian adapter issue), you're selling a product. I don't expect you to understand my question. You're throwing out answers to things I didn't ask. I never said anything about using an AK mag in a stock SKS. I was asking what the appeal was using an adapter with a stock SKS vs just buying a factory detachable mag SKS.
Quote from: Power Surge on July 31, 2015, 09:46:08 PM
Quote from: 1mlt on July 31, 2015, 09:21:48 PM
Quote from: Power Surge on July 31, 2015, 08:18:26 PM
Quote from: Loose}{Cannon on July 31, 2015, 05:04:52 PM
You-fix-em for $120 plus $100 adapter = Full M or D features for $220. :o
OR.... Regular nice chicom for $300 plus $100 adapter = $400. And you have both!!
OR... You already have a standard sks wnd $100 makes it run just like your M or D or whateva
Well that was my basis for questioning why.... $350 for a basic chinese SKS + $100-150 for adapter = $450-$500. You can buy a Sporter or an M for that kind of money and use $10 AK mags that exist by the millions all around the world.
But they still won't work in a standard SKS. Your logic is flawed.
Marcus
Marcus, with all due respect (which honestly isn't much the way you're handling the canadian adapter issue), you're selling a product. I don't expect you to understand my question. You're throwing out answers to things I didn't ask. I never said anything about using an AK mag in a stock SKS. I was asking what the appeal was using an adapter with a stock SKS vs just buying a factory detachable mag SKS.
The answer is, if you HAVE a standard SKS, and you want reliable detachable mags is XX capacity, buy our adapter, instead of purchasing another rifle. It flat our works, it's that simple. Less than buying a new rifle to take XX capacity mags of any mfg. This option is only viable if you already own a standard SKS and don't own an AK mag accepting SKS. If you own a SKS that takes AK mags, this is probably not for you.
Marcus
Quote from: 1mlt on July 31, 2015, 10:15:01 PM
Quote from: Power Surge on July 31, 2015, 09:46:08 PM
Quote from: 1mlt on July 31, 2015, 09:21:48 PM
Quote from: Power Surge on July 31, 2015, 08:18:26 PM
Quote from: Loose}{Cannon on July 31, 2015, 05:04:52 PM
You-fix-em for $120 plus $100 adapter = Full M or D features for $220. :o
OR.... Regular nice chicom for $300 plus $100 adapter = $400. And you have both!!
OR... You already have a standard sks wnd $100 makes it run just like your M or D or whateva
Well that was my basis for questioning why.... $350 for a basic chinese SKS + $100-150 for adapter = $450-$500. You can buy a Sporter or an M for that kind of money and use $10 AK mags that exist by the millions all around the world.
But they still won't work in a standard SKS. Your logic is flawed.
Marcus
Marcus, with all due respect (which honestly isn't much the way you're handling the canadian adapter issue), you're selling a product. I don't expect you to understand my question. You're throwing out answers to things I didn't ask. I never said anything about using an AK mag in a stock SKS. I was asking what the appeal was using an adapter with a stock SKS vs just buying a factory detachable mag SKS.
The answer is, if you HAVE a standard SKS, and you want reliable detachable mags is XX capacity, buy our adapter, instead of purchasing another rifle. It flat our works, it's that simple. Less than buying a new rifle to take XX capacity mags of any mfg. This option is only viable if you already own a standard SKS and don't own an AK mag accepting SKS. If you own a SKS that takes AK mags, this is probably not for you.
Marcus
Also just to be clear.... I am not doubting the function of your adapters. I know they work :)
If a person owns an AK, D, M or Sporter, our adapters won't improve on their efficiency. If you own a 'standard', internal 10 round SKS, our products will improve that platforms efficiency w/o the higher cost of a new or different rifle. The mags we sell are per-modified. We need to get our costs back when we sell them. You can purchase a Tapco 20 or ProMag 30 for about 15.00/each and do the mods yourself. The polymer mags are very simple to mod. I was modding them using my scroll saw. But they were a little 'ragged' looking, so I decided to have them modified by my CNC guy. I build a 'jig' to hold them and cuts them with his machine. Much 'cleaner' looking and the specs hold for each one.
The metal ASC mags for the G9 are modified using wire EDM technology. Again, we made a 'jig' for them also. You can mod them yourself if you have a drill press with x/y axis or a table mill. But it would take some effort because they are metal.
As to the Canadian thing, we have a license agreement with MagWedge to make and distribute our products in Canada. MagWedge is the only authorized distributor in Canada of our products. I doubt you would be very happy if you were in my shoes and saw your products being sold w/o your permission.
Marcus
Quote from: 1mlt on August 01, 2015, 10:15:43 AM
I doubt you would be very happy if you were in my shoes and saw your products being sold w/o your permission.
Marcus
Naw, can't saw I would be happy, and I can completely understand it, the pissed off, rage feeling....but at the same time, and I gotta say it, I would have handled the situation alot differently and not made a spectacle out of the whole ordeal. I would have done what needed done, resolved the issue, quietly.. Logistically and legally what can anyone here do, throwing a fit and acting an azz and open public confrontation on another board won't solve anything, this only attracts them back here to cause drama. Don't deny it, it's already happened once, every hear of mob mentality, you piss off one, the whole group attacks. In this situation, only the powers of lawyers, patent offices and deals made across international borders and what not can fix the issue, not, throwing a fit like a 5 year old..
Thats, all I got to say about that.
I have been in your shoes. I used to manufacture high performance automotive parts for a specific niche vehicle. I was the first vendor to do so, and I was the one who put all of the time and money into the R&D. After my products came out, other vendors copied them. Some of those vendors had deeper pockets then I did and were actually able to manufacture them cheaper than I could. I even had one vendor tell me that he was going to copy my parts and then sell them to me cheaper so that I could make more money. One of these vendors was even from Canada.
So I have been in your shoes, almost to the exact situation. You have to handle these situations in a professional manner. Getting upset and slamming another company for going online and complaining all the time does not make you look very professional. despite how upset you are over this, instead of complaining about other vendors publicly, just try to concentrate on promoting the features and benefits of your products and let people make the decision for themselves. You will gain much more respect for that type of Business Conduct.