Howdy, all!
This is my first visit to this site, and I must say it is very nice! Travis done good!
I couldn't stop by without sharing a post or two of my wood work. I have seen several names here that I recognize from another SKS board, so I know you guys are probably familiar with what I am posting.
I have produced some 40-50 of these babies, and here is one of the latest:
(http://i789.photobucket.com/albums/yy176/Larry_Gilmore/DSCN1983_zpstztt9ro5.jpg) (http://s789.photobucket.com/user/Larry_Gilmore/media/DSCN1983_zpstztt9ro5.jpg.html)
It is my first SKS, a shortened Yugo, running a Marcus G5 and a Pro Mag 30 rounder. It will group 3-4 inches at 50 yards all day, standing or supported on its grip pod.
I have retired from my job of twenty-one years, and am quietly and busily enjoying the good life in Central Oklahoma.
KTF
Glad you finally showed up! I never get tired of seeing your bullpup stocks. thumb1
Awesome work LK! I never get tired of seeing any of your babies!
Welcome to the boards, I hope you find it comfortable here!
Beautiful LK. Now build one that takes our new G9 adapter. Yup, the one that uses AR 15 x39 mags. Maybe we can make a deal. I'll trade you a G9 and mag for a stock?
BTW, welcome home.
Marcus
Quote from: 1mlt on July 15, 2015, 06:07:08 PM
Beautiful LK. Now build one that takes our new G9 adapter. Yup, the one that uses AR 15 x39 mags. Maybe we can make a deal. I'll trade you a G9 and mag for a stock?
BTW, welcome home.
Marcus
Marcus, that is doable. Do you like the one in the pic? It has never been shot, only modeled.
I have had several people mention your G9, and I have had to tell them that I am not sure about the fit in one of my stocks. I could sure use one to play with.
If you don't care for the black walnut/red mahogany look, I have one in natural, and another in cherry/red mahogany I can show you.
I'm game if you are?
KTF
Quote from: running-man on July 15, 2015, 05:48:10 PM
Awesome work LK! I never get tired of seeing any of your babies!
Welcome to the boards, I hope you find it comfortable here!
It is not only comfortable, but comes with lots of friends! Thanks for the welcome!
KTF
Quote from: LKermit on July 15, 2015, 07:17:45 PM
Quote from: 1mlt on July 15, 2015, 06:07:08 PM
Beautiful LK. Now build one that takes our new G9 adapter. Yup, the one that uses AR 15 x39 mags. Maybe we can make a deal. I'll trade you a G9 and mag for a stock?
BTW, welcome home.
Marcus
Marcus, that is doable. Do you like the one in the pic? It has never been shot, only modeled.
I have had several people mention your G9, and I have had to tell them that I am not sure about the fit in one of my stocks. I could sure use one to play with.
If you don't care for the black walnut/red mahogany look, I have one in natural, and another in cherry/red mahogany I can show you.
I'm game if you are?
KTF
Send me your mailing address (via email, 1mlt@sbcglobal.net) and I'll send you one and a mag. Can I see a pic of the cherry/red mahogany one please? You may need to 'fatten' up the mag well area though, as the G9 'box' is wider and rectangular. Take a look at one on our site, TheSKSmagAdapter - Home Page (http://www.thesksmagadapter.com)
Marcus
Marcus:
It DOES make a lot more sense to build you one from scratch that will fit the G9 (duh!).
If you would, tell me how wide the G9 is and I can cut a new rear section to fit, plus about 3/16" for the trigger bar, giving a leg up on construction of a new stock.
The cherry/red mahogany is still wet from the urethane, so give me a day or two to finish, and I'll post pics.
E-mail will go out this morning.
Thanks a bunch!
KTF
Welcome! I admire fine woodworking and that stock looks like it would require a lot of detail work, most of which is hidden from view in all of the inletting. Nice stuff! thumb1
Quote from: LKermit on July 16, 2015, 08:08:48 AM
Marcus:
It DOES make a lot more sense to build you one from scratch that will fit the G9 (duh!).
If you would, tell me how wide the G9 is and I can cut a new rear section to fit, plus about 3/16" for the trigger bar, giving a leg up on construction of a new stock.
The cherry/red mahogany is still wet from the urethane, so give me a day or two to finish, and I'll post pics.
E-mail will go out this morning.
Thanks a bunch!
KTF
Kermit,
The adapter body is 3.5405L (not including the duckbill portion, measured at the bottom of the adapter) x 1.2125W x 2.4895H (measured from the rear of the adapter) in inches. The "skirt" that drops down around the mag will probably have to go also. We have developed a 'ambi' mag release and it needs to have clearance to attach to the left side of the adapter body at the base of the mag catch bar. I don't have one to send you as they are at the CNC guy. The mag catch bar is the 45degree bar on the left side that goes up, inside the stocks body. It doesn't need a 'slot' to operated as it only needs to move a few hundredths to release the mag. The standard mag release button is located on the lower right side and it needs to have clearance also. The 'cutout' for the adapter needs forward clearance so the adapter body can be shifted forward (maybe an 1/8") for 'tuning' the adapter to each rifle.
You may need to inlet the trigger bar though for clearance. The best 'look' is for the stock to 'wrap' the adapter so it looks like it is a factory part. Can you route the trigger bar on the right side so it is clear of the mag catch bar? And where is the safety located?
Does this make sense to you? Clear as a bell to me.
Marcus
He cuts a hole in the right side to access the original safety.
Quote from: Phosphorus32 on July 16, 2015, 09:05:35 AM
Welcome! I admire fine woodworking and that stock looks like it would require a lot of detail work, most of which is hidden from view in all of the inletting. Nice stuff! thumb1
Thanks for the welcome and the nice compliment! Actually, there is only a bit of grinding or inletting done, since it is the clam-shell style. The fasteners are all on the other side.
KTF
Quote from: 1mlt on July 16, 2015, 10:48:41 AM
Quote from: LKermit on July 16, 2015, 08:08:48 AM
Marcus:
It DOES make a lot more sense to build you one from scratch that will fit the G9 (duh!).
If you would, tell me how wide the G9 is and I can cut a new rear section to fit, plus about 3/16" for the trigger bar, giving a leg up on construction of a new stock.
The cherry/red mahogany is still wet from the urethane, so give me a day or two to finish, and I'll post pics.
E-mail will go out this morning.
Thanks a bunch!
KTF
Kermit,
The adapter body is 3.5405L (not including the duckbill portion, measured at the bottom of the adapter) x 1.2125W x 2.4895H (measured from the rear of the adapter) in inches. The "skirt" that drops down around the mag will probably have to go also. We have developed a 'ambi' mag release and it needs to have clearance to attach to the left side of the adapter body at the base of the mag catch bar. I don't have one to send you as they are at the CNC guy. The mag catch bar is the 45degree bar on the left side that goes up, inside the stocks body. It doesn't need a 'slot' to operated as it only needs to move a few hundredths to release the mag. The standard mag release button is located on the lower right side and it needs to have clearance also. The 'cutout' for the adapter needs forward clearance so the adapter body can be shifted forward (maybe an 1/8") for 'tuning' the adapter to each rifle.
You may need to inlet the trigger bar though for clearance. The best 'look' is for the stock to 'wrap' the adapter so it looks like it is a factory part. Can you route the trigger bar on the right side so it is clear of the mag catch bar? And where is the safety located?
Does this make sense to you? Clear as a bell to me.
Marcus
Marcus:
The with of the unit is the critical measurement I needed. I normally run the trigger bar on the left, but it is no problem making a mirror image stock to accommodate that. Travis is right about the safety hole. It is at the back, and on the right side. If the plunging area around the magazine needs to be trimmed or eliminated, that really isn't a problem either.
If a bit of stand-off room is necessary for the mag catch, that really isn't a problem either. I just make the butt section wider and then taper the front area more.
KTF
Well Hiya Kermit you old frog you. Have you used up all that Black Walnut I sent you yet?(I'm sure it's long gone)
So Marcus, how come you never offered to swap me one of my folding adapters for one of your G-9 mag adapters? :P :)) :)) j/k
Hello, GG!
Yep, the walnut is literally spread over the continental US and parts of Canada. That was some hard stuff! But, it machined well and held an edge just like walnut should.
Marcus has provided me with a new set of headaches, is all........ :>)
KTF
Quote from: LKermit on July 16, 2015, 08:48:23 PM
Hello, GG!
Yep, the walnut is literally spread over the continental US and parts of Canada. That was some hard stuff! But, it machined well and held an edge just like walnut should.
Marcus has provided me with a new set of headaches, is all........ :>)
KTF
Not headaches, opportunities. :)
KTF,
WHAT IF, I come up with a 'safety bar' that attaches to the original safety lever on the trigger assembly. It will have a simple round bar that will stick out of the hole you cut on the LEFT side of the stock. That way your right thumb controls the safety, similar to the AR platform. The new 'hole' will be in the shape of an 'arc' that follows the travel arc of the bar? Or something similar. I haven't played with that yet though. Maybe a simple cam that you rotate to lock it on/off?
Marcus
Why not just create a block safety for the forward trigger. Wouldn't that be simpler and take up less space?
Quote from: Greatguns on July 17, 2015, 12:01:49 PM
Why not just create a block safety for the forward trigger. Wouldn't that be simpler and take up less space?
Yes it would. SGW uses a slide type safety and it works fine. It is a ball w/spring and a flat bar that slides back/forth to lock/unlock the bull-pup trigger and that puts it where your trigger finger is. I would actually prefer that. Or something similar.
Marcus
Quote from: 1mlt on July 17, 2015, 10:21:17 AM
KTF,
WHAT IF, I come up with a 'safety bar' that attaches to the original safety lever on the trigger assembly. It will have a simple round bar that will stick out of the hole you cut on the LEFT side of the stock. That way your right thumb controls the safety, similar to the AR platform. The new 'hole' will be in the shape of an 'arc' that follows the travel arc of the bar? Or something similar. I haven't played with that yet though. Maybe a simple cam that you rotate to lock it on/off?
Marcus
Marcus:
That would be awesome! The only thing is, you could not block the trigger or the area in front of it. I really think it would be better for the right-hand shooters if the safety were on the right side, not the left. Too much chance of hitting something when you are shouldering the rifle, unless it is pretty far forward.
The same goes for single-point carrying. The rifle will rest on its left side for the most part. Whattya think?
KTF
I think putting it with the 'new' trigger would be the best bet. That way it is where your trigger finger will be. I didn't consider the old trigger is actually under your nose now. I think left side would be better, especially if you run the G9. The new trigger linkage can ride just fine on the flat, unencumbered, right side of the adapter body, but the safety is actually controlled with the right thumb as in the AR 15 style. I think you can get an ambi safety release for the AR's. That would be just slick. Then either a lefty or righty can easily use it.
You know your stocks way better than me. Do you have an ideas on a safety for the new trigger? May a AR 15 style? It has a flat area that allows the trigger to clear. The rest of it is round and blocks the trigger from being pulled.
Here's one:
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/learn/learndetail.aspx?lid=14370
Marcus
It wuld def be easier to stop the new trigger, up front, as you suggest. I just have not come up with a workable plan. The fact that square holes made in wood don't come easy hampers what you can do.
I do like the idea of a right-thumb-area catch or similar idea, possibly something that would rotate 90 degrees or so, maybe with some type of claw to grab the new trigger bar.
Hmmmmmmm....
KTF
Quote from: LKermit on July 17, 2015, 03:46:34 PM
It wuld def be easier to stop the new trigger, up front, as you suggest. I just have not come up with a workable plan. The fact that square holes made in wood don't come easy hampers what you can do.
I do like the idea of a right-thumb-area catch or similar idea, possibly something that would rotate 90 degrees or so, maybe with some type of claw to grab the new trigger bar.
Hmmmmmmm....
KTF
No need for square holes. Drill a 3/8" (or other size) hole all the way across the stock (properly positioned of course), so it penetrates the stock from both sides. Also cut a 3/8" half moon in the trigger bar. Use an aluminum rod and cut a flat on it for the "safety off" position. When rotated, the flat will release the trigger because it rotates OUT of the half moon cut on the flat bar. When rotated back the round portion will be blocking the bar because it's in the half moon cut of the trigger bar. That will stop the linkage from moving. Simple and sweet. I don't know what to use for the actuators though. Maybe some thicker aluminum, shaped a little bit. Cut the bar long enough to stick out the thickness of a thin steel washer on each side, plus the thickness of the levers. Put the washers on the bar, attach the 2 levers. That way they clear the stock so it won't scratch the finish.
To attach the levers drill a taper hole through the lever and the bar at the same time. No tapping holes now. That way you can tap in a dowell pin and won't run the risk of a screw backing out and the going south on you. That is what we do on the G5 release. Never has a pin come out. But you can remove it if need be.
Marcus
I think I have a workable idea for the sliding button type.
Thanks!
KTF
Welcome Kermit, glad to see you here with us.!!
Quote from: Dannyboy53 on July 17, 2015, 06:19:44 PM
Welcome Kermit, glad to see you here with us.!!
Thanks, Dannyboy53. It is good to be here. This is a quality board, and I am glad I happened across it!
KTF
Marcus:
I received the package yesterday, and I must say I am really impressed. That is a beautiful piece of design and workmanship!
The goods news is, there won't be a lot of re-design necessary on the stock, although I will re-size some things and re-shape some others. The mag release button hits a perfect place on the stock as-is. I won't have to widen the stocks any more than 1/8 inch to accommodate the trigger bar, which can stay on the left side, or will work on the right side, too.
I have some black walnut on hand, so my first work-up with the G-9 will be walnut. I can adjust the length of pull almost three inches to the shorter side now. That will allow extra picatinny rail length up front, also.
Give me your ideal length of pull and I'll model this one to fit you.
KTF
Quote from: LKermit on July 19, 2015, 07:59:20 AM
Marcus:
I received the package yesterday, and I must say I am really impressed. That is a beautiful piece of design and workmanship!
The goods news is, there won't be a lot of re-design necessary on the stock, although I will re-size some things and re-shape some others. The mag release button hits a perfect place on the stock as-is. I won't have to widen the stocks any more than 1/8 inch to accommodate the trigger bar, which can stay on the left side, or will work on the right side, too.
I have some black walnut on hand, so my first work-up with the G-9 will be walnut. I can adjust the length of pull almost three inches to the shorter side now. That will allow extra picatinny rail length up front, also.
Give me your ideal length of pull and I'll model this one to fit you.
KTF
Glad to hear she arrived safely. I think the trigger bar needs to be on the right side due to the G9 mag catch bar being on the left. The trigger bar 'may' impede the G9 catch bar from releasing the mag. Also there is a 'ambi' release to be added as well. I usually shoot my SKS in a Tapco T6 with the stock collapsed. However, my current fav is in a "MC5D stock. Funny how things work out. The D, M and Sporter stocks are perfect fit for the G9 once you remove the AK insert. All you have to do is notch the front corners for some forward movement to tune the adapter. Let me know if you need some help installing the adapter. It isn't hard, but it is precise. I'll play with my LOP and let you know what it is. I have short arms being I'm 5'-8" tall.
Marcus
Marcus:
Here are a couple of pics of my Franken-Chinese in a walnut BP with 14 inch LOP, and one of your G9's in residence.
I have a second one in the works that has another 1 inch of LOP, because the first one makes you chicken-wing your elbow to shoot. I will also thin down the trigger grip for smaller hands.......even mine won't fit it comfortably.
Next is the trigger, which I'll have to bury in the right side, but that's no biggie, I made the walls extra thick, anticipating the tight fit.
KTF
(http://i789.photobucket.com/albums/yy176/Larry_Gilmore/DSCN2006_zpsuzofk7mf.jpg) (http://s789.photobucket.com/user/Larry_Gilmore/media/DSCN2006_zpsuzofk7mf.jpg.html)
(http://i789.photobucket.com/albums/yy176/Larry_Gilmore/DSCN2005_zpsitw5yh7f.jpg) (http://s789.photobucket.com/user/Larry_Gilmore/media/DSCN2005_zpsitw5yh7f.jpg.html)
Kermit, the 2 'skirts' will have to be shortened. I guess, draw a line from the front of the skirt to 'blend with the rear curve section. You need access to the cross pin than holds the mag catch bar and the ambi release on the left. Are you going to notch the stock where the mag catch bar is? Just enough so it has some room to move? Another reason why the trigger bar needs to be on the right. And trying to get to the mag release button on the right will be problematic if you have to reach your finger into a hole. Having said that, the left side has to shorter, so the ambi has room to engage and disengage the mag catch bar. The ambi 'hangs down' about 1/2" below the bottom rear of the G9 on the left side. Plus, if the skirts are there you can't R -n- R the adapter w/o taking the stock apart.
I've mocked up the ambi and it works great. There will be 3 parts to it. 2 button head screws and the release. No mods to the G9 are required. The button heads are black. I'm thinking the ambi will be SS to match the mag catch bar. It can be retro fitted to any current G9 model in about 5-10 mins. That incudes installing the ambi, the adjustment and reinstall back into the rifle. Since it has a 'fulcrum' action, (to disengage the mag catch bar), the release must not be covered. So, the right side probably should 'mirror' the left side fro symmetry.
Does this make sense to you? Clear as bell to me.
My LOP is 14 1/2 to 15". Probably should go with 15".
Marcus
Yep, I get it. I'll carve on the first stock to get the second one right. The trigger bar may have to run up and over the adapter, so that it doesn't get exposed by the trimmed skirts.
Thanks for your feedback, Marcus!
KTF
Quote from: LKermit on August 01, 2015, 08:20:52 AM
Yep, I get it. I'll carve on the first stock to get the second one right. The trigger bar may have to run up and over the adapter, so that it doesn't get exposed by the trimmed skirts.
Thanks for your feedback, Marcus!
KTF
Marcus:
Here she is sans her "skirts", and there is still room for the trigger bar. I have relieved the side where the release lever is, so no problem getting the release to work. What else do I need to do now?
KTF
(http://i789.photobucket.com/albums/yy176/Larry_Gilmore/DSCN2007_zpsvcn8deg6.jpg) (http://s789.photobucket.com/user/Larry_Gilmore/media/DSCN2007_zpsvcn8deg6.jpg.html)
(http://i789.photobucket.com/albums/yy176/Larry_Gilmore/DSCN2009_zps9zj5wkaa.jpg) (http://s789.photobucket.com/user/Larry_Gilmore/media/DSCN2009_zps9zj5wkaa.jpg.html)
That should do nicely. Looks like there will be sufficient clearance on both sides of the stock now. Thanks for mocking it up so fast. How long did it take you to fit the G9 into the rifle and stock? Does the mag 'pop' out when released and can you load it with 1 finger when the rifle is upside down? That is the 'sweet' spot.
Marcus
Marcus, you are welcome. Your product needs to get into more peoples' hands and it is my privilege to help do so.
To be honest, I still have a bit of work to do do get the mag to "pop" out. It is still a bit tight.
I confess to being a bit worried about the modding process, but I used an old and already modded trigger group just in case I goofed. I would say that I have a couple of hours invested so far, but I am sure that with another two or three rifles, I could have the process down to a much more reasonable time, depending of course on the rifle.
Right now, the mag lips are riding a smidge too high, and are dragging the bolt as it goes forward. I think the mag height is good, but the lips need a bit of trimmng.
KTF
No, don't trim the mag lips. The mag is fine as is. Do the DFB mod. That frees the bolt up to slam home. Sounds like the mag tab (the tab under the rear site trunnion) needs a 'pinch' more removed. That will move the adapter body slightly forward. Think in .001's of an inch here, not .01's.
Marcus
Yeah, I forgot that this is a new and different bolt, so I'll do the drop free and then see where it is.
KTF
Just touching base with you KT. How goes the battle?
Marcus
Hi, Marcus. I am struggling with trigger bar clearance issues. I have made a custom set of bending pliers to help, but haven't had time to test them out. My wife and I are in the middle of a total home remodel, and that has taken much of my time recently.
I will be free to tackle the stock again tomorrow, and hope to get the trigger working without dragging.
KTF
Quote from: LKermit on August 23, 2015, 07:46:46 AM
Hi, Marcus. I am struggling with trigger bar clearance issues. I have made a custom set of bending pliers to help, but haven't had time to test them out. My wife and I are in the middle of a total home remodel, and that has taken much of my time recently.
I will be free to tackle the stock again tomorrow, and hope to get the trigger working without dragging.
KTF
KTF, no problem, take your time, just checking on progress.
Marcus
Marcus, at long last, it is time to pick your stain and top coat.
The stock just needs finish sanding and she'll be ready to complete.
KTF
LK, do you have some pix of that type wood with different stains on it I could see please? Telling you a color w/o really knowing what the wood will look like may not be so good. Not light, but not too dark either, something in the middle? Make sense?
Marcus
What he make it in again? Black walnut?
Quote from: Loose}{Cannon on August 31, 2015, 09:39:56 PM
What he make it in again? Black walnut?
Yeah, I think that's what it is.
Marcus
Thats what my stock is.... Believe I used special walnut stain color
Marcus and Travis:
Both are made with my favorite wood, American Black walnut.
I have either too much sun or not enough this time of day, but maybe you can see the shade differences on these three stocks:
(http://i789.photobucket.com/albums/yy176/Larry_Gilmore/DSCN2014_zps7b5cjuw9.jpg) (http://s789.photobucket.com/user/Larry_Gilmore/media/DSCN2014_zps7b5cjuw9.jpg.html)
(http://i789.photobucket.com/albums/yy176/Larry_Gilmore/DSCN2015_zpsz1guwb6h.jpg) (http://s789.photobucket.com/user/Larry_Gilmore/media/DSCN2015_zpsz1guwb6h.jpg.html)
KTF
Top pix, far right stock. The one with the grip pod on it. Sharon also liked it best. What's your vote Travis?
I dig the darker color also.... Very Thompson like. thumb1
How appropriate. That one is "Gunstock"!
I'll get 'er going, then.
KTF
Thanks KTF. Have you resolved the tight mag issue yet? When you do, go shoot it. You will fall in love with how it works.
Marcus
Marcus:
I finally took a bit more off the locking tab at the nose of the adapter, and the mag pops out as you stated.
Please verify your shipping address, and tomorrow I'll get your stock mailed out, Priority.
KTF
Glad it's working as designed. Have you shot it yet? Address sent.
Marcus
Marcus:
I just realized that the stock I sent has no slot for the front stock ferrule. The rifle I built it around has none, and I forgot to cut it to fit the ferrule.
You may want to just send it back unopened and let me make that cut and refinish the area.
Sorry for the oversight.............. :>(
KTF
LK, I'll open just to take a look see. Then send it back. No big deal my friend.
Marcus