I have 2 Russian Tula 1952's. On both of them, the firing pin retainer is not in straight. See photo.
[photo removedl]
On my Type 56, the retainer is straight. On Yooper's, he shows a picture of a Russian that is not straight, just like mine. See the link towards the bottom described as Russian 1955. Yooper John (http://www.yooperj.com/SKS-12.htm)
My firing pins float fine and the rifles work fine. Are the Russians designed this way? By the way, when I take the retainer out and re-install it, it is straight. It is only after shooting that it turns a little. So, is this just the way Russians are and not an issue? Thanks.
Should be straight... I know you can accidentally install them rotated like that but the correct position is straight. If you install it straight and it rotated when fireing, that would be the first for me to hear about. You can remove the retaining pin and dimple the shank with a center punch a few times and reinstall. Perhaps that will give it the extra tightness it needs to stay put.
Thanks. The one in the photo was definitely installed straight on 2 separate occasions and it rotated after firing. It is very tight to get out and I have to hammer it in as well. So I don't know that peening will take care of it.
I find it perplexing that I have the same condition on both of mine. I have never taken the pin out on the other one that I did not photograph, so i don't know if that one was straight to begin with. The other one has a white bolt and carrier. Also, the one on Yoopers is rotated just like mine. So that is 3 Russians that I am aware of. Of course, my Type 56 mentioned above is straight.
That is why I was wondering if it was just a Russian thing, and if not a Russian thing, is it a problem that should be fixed?
On a couple of my SKS's, ive learned I have to have it rotated the opposite way a tad when I start pounding it in, as those particular ones tend to rotate a tad in the direction yours is showing when its getting pounded back in.
I've also hear of popped primer issues slamming the FP back and actually rotating the retaining pin like this. Have you ever noticed popped primers in your spent brass?
Those should go in (reasonably) straight and stay right where you put them....
Quote from: running-man on May 05, 2015, 10:00:20 PM
I've also hear of popped primer issues slamming the FP back and actually rotating the retaining pin like this. Have you ever noticed popped primers in your spent brass?
Those should go in (reasonably) straight and stay right where you put them....
Good point...
Quote from: running-man on May 05, 2015, 10:00:20 PM
I've also hear of popped primer issues slamming the FP back and actually rotating the retaining pin like this. Have you ever noticed popped primers in your spent brass?
Those should go in (reasonably) straight and stay right where you put them....
Yes, I have had popped primers with the photographed one. I attributed it to the ammo, and have not had any issues with popped primers once I switched ammo. I thought that the rotation may have been caused by the popped primers, but it has still rotated without any popped primers. As I have stated, the retainer went in perfectly straight (not rotated at all), and it rotated without any popped primers.
So, based on the responses, this is not normal for a Russian or any SKS for that matter. What should I do about it, if anything? I guess it wouldn't hurt to try putting a dimple on the shank as suggested by Loose Cannon. Or is this even an issue over which to have any concern?
I'd be concerned. I'd do a 100% brass check the next time I went out and shot it. Even if you're not using Tulammo and changed to Golden Tiger, Wolf, or one of the Bears, that steel cased berdan primed ammo sometimes causes popped primers and there's really no way to foresee when or with what brand it's going to happen. I had a Sino-Banian that gave me these results a while back regardless of what steel cased ammo I used. Notice the two on the left, though they aren't popped, they still are bulging outward causing an odd 'cratering' look to the primer where the pin struck. I've gotta imagine that they are forcing the FP back as far as it'll go when this happens:
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/misc/IMG_2587_zpsc8c7fb58.jpg~original)
Turns out my issue was the FP had a square edge on it:
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/Sino-banian_1/IMG_2088.jpg~original)
I rounded it over and the PP problems went away:
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/Sino-banian_1/IMG_2101_zps15ffcc2e.jpg~original)
I'm not saying this is what your problem is (in fact I've only ever found one other guy who had the same problem as me and was able to fix it himself), but it's good to get to the root cause of the problem. thumb1
Thanks again, running-man. I did try to look at the primers but was only able to find a small percentage of the 80 rounds I fired (outdoors). The one's I did find looked fine. I guess I'll just make sure I find all of the ones I fire next time. First, I will pull the FP again and inspect it; however, it appeared fine last time. I will also try to put a dimple on the retainer and see if that works. I guess I will have to work on both Russians together.
I am still perplexed as to why both of my Russians have the slightly rotated retainer. Now i am obsessed about it and will endeavor to figure it out. Of course, I will resort to this thread for more questions and any updates I may have. May take a while.
In the meantime, any other suggestions are welcome.
running-man I don't have a problem with popped primers but just for educations sake, what method did you use to round off the firing pin?
#1 cause of popped primers (imho) is a valcanoed fp hole at the bolt face.
Danny, Im not sure what RM did but Ive had to do do the same thig, I used a fine metal file
Quote from: Loose}{Cannon on May 06, 2015, 07:45:43 AM
#1 cause of popped primers (imho) is a valcanoed fp hole at the bolt face.
Thanks, I checked for that, and mine looks good. I really don't think I have a popped primer issue.
I would dimple the shank with a center punch about 4 times. Two near the end, and two near the head just to stay away from the center as the center may not make contact because of the fp channel.
Quote from: Dannyboy53 on May 05, 2015, 11:46:04 PM
running-man I don't have a problem with popped primers but just for educations sake, what method did you use to round off the firing pin?
I used a little riffler file to take the majority of the material off and then took a stone to the tip to make the transition nice and smooth. It didn't take more than 5 minutes to have a nice hemispherical head on the top of that FP. I haven't had a problem since. thumb1
Quote from: running-man on May 06, 2015, 03:28:28 PM
Quote from: Dannyboy53 on May 05, 2015, 11:46:04 PM
running-man I don't have a problem with popped primers but just for educations sake, what method did you use to round off the firing pin?
I used a little riffler file to take the majority of the material off and then took a stone to the tip to make the transition nice and smooth. It didn't take more than 5 minutes to have a nice hemispherical head on the top of that FP. I haven't had a problem since. thumb1
Thanks running-man.
UPDATE: like I said i would try to update you on this thread. I took the firing pins out of each of the 1952 Tula's. I cleaned everything real good. I peened (minimal) the retainer on the black bolt and not on the white bolt. Note that the clocking in the picture in the original post appears to look worse than it is in person, and that the white bolt one is turned slightly less than the black bolt.
Put them back together with the retained not at all clocked (turned). I also left the retainer of the black bolt very slightly not all the way in.
Went to the range yesterday and put 20 rounds through each. No pierced (popped) primers, and I was able to locate and check all of them. Also, the primer strikes looked fine on all of them.
I checked the bolts after each 10 shots. The white bolt retainer did not turn at all after all 20 shots. The black bolt retainer was turned (clocked) when I checked after the firt 10 shots. No malfunctioned of any kind.
I got home and took the firing pin out of the black bolt and replaced the retained straight and all the way in. I guess I could go try it again with the pin all the way in; but, I think I will just order a new retainer and firing pin. The retainer on the black bolt was not in as good condition as the one in the white bolt.
Questions:
1. any other comments would be appreciated
2. do you think that a new retainer and/or firing pin will take care of the matter?
3. best source for original Russian retainer and firing pin
Thanks.
A suggestion would be to never leave thr retaining pin sticking out 'any' amount. It can get hung up on the receiver and you decreased the contact surface of the pin shank to the body.
Im guessing you should swap firing pins and retainers from the other gun and eliminate a variable. If the through hole of the bolt body is too large causing a loose retainer fit... a new fp and retainer wont do jack.
The retaining pins tab also has a big angled hook deformity at the top front corner where the extractor makes contact. The very first few rounds mau be hitting that angled hook nub and rotating it. Use a file and straighten that out.
Quote from: Loose}{Cannon on May 09, 2015, 02:58:26 PM
The retaining pins tab also has a big angled hook deformity at the top front corner where the extractor makes contact. The very first few rounds mau be hitting that angled hook nub and rotating it. Use a file and straighten that out.
Thanks. I think i see what you are referencing. Looking at my photo, is it the area that would correspond in a diagonal from the two circle marks on the retaining pin? Basically where the retainer is higher than the bolt?
This needs to be square and straight, especially the side the extractor contacts.
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee269/mrcoinring/IMG_20150509_174130.jpg)
Thanks. That is the area that I thought you were talking about.
By the way, I do still want to get a new original Russian retainer and firing pin. Any suggestions as to the best sources?
Russian? Go fish. I dont think thats possible unless someone knows something I dont. :-\
Quote from: Loose}{Cannon on May 09, 2015, 02:58:26 PM
The retaining pins tab also has a big angled hook deformity at the top front corner where the extractor makes contact. The very first few rounds mau be hitting that angled hook nub and rotating it. Use a file and straighten that out.
Okay. I got the hook filed off. I was waiting for a new firing pin retainer before I did so, in case I messed it up. Need to get out to the range to see if this did the trick. Thanks again.
Let us know how it goes...
Will do.
Update: Went to the range today. Ran 10 rounds through it and took the bolt out and, unfortunately the filing of the retainer head as described above did not work. I brought my tools out to the range and popped out the old retainer and put in a new retainer. I ran 50 more rounds through it and voila, the retainer stays in position.
In any event, I had fun shooting at steel out at 100 and 200 yards. I did check all my primers and no popped primers.
Thanks for the troubleshooting help.
Interesting.. guess the shank diameter was too small on the original.
Hard to know. It seemed plenty tight pushing out and also seemed tight pushing in. I did notice some wear on the flat portion of the retainer. All I know is that the new one works. Thanks again.
Probably just enough wear in a certain area to allow it to turn. Anyway, glad to hear its working right.
Thanks, Dannyboy53.