Well, I've begun my descent into increasingly oddball calibers. Yup, 7.5x54mm French (I have another oddball caliber on the way too). I glanced at Armslist the other day and saw a pair of rifles with a trade request list that included a rifle for which I had a spare. I was enticed to the trade mostly by the M39 (a VKT with an Austrian AZF stamped receiver) to feed my addiction to those rifles, and this French rifle was the sucre on the trade.
It's a MAS (Manufacture d'Armes de Saint-Étienne) Modèle 1936 rifle, or M1936. The SN letter block is Q (yes that character that looks like a 2), which places production around 1953-54. The year should be on the barrel under the furniture, but I haven't had it out of the stock yet...and may not ever take it out of the stock. Anyhow, the more popular ones (valuable) with collectors are the stove black metal with walnut stock versions. Those were 1937-1940 manufacture with the obvious interruption by the German conquest and Vichy France era. This example has been refurbished in a French arsenal and put into storage, from whence it was likely never removed until sale to CAI. The parkerizing was part of the refurbishment, as was the new beechwood furniture. This rifle has a magazine floorplate that does not match the bolt, receiver and trigger guard. In the original walnut clad versions the left buttstock would have also had a SN but this refurb does not.
The bolt has a two rear lug design, and the bolt body is beefy, as in large diameter. It's a cock on open design and the bolt handle looks a bit gangly but is very natural to operate. It has a rear peep sight, which I generally like. The cruciform spike bayonet mounts tucks away in a sleeve under the barrel and one merely depresses a button to release it, turn it around and mount ready for action. Rather clever.
He threw in a box of vintage ammo and a box of newer PPU, as well. He was happy, I was happy.
(http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z475/phosphorus32/MAS%20M1936/full%20right.jpg) (http://s1191.photobucket.com/user/phosphorus32/media/MAS%20M1936/full%20right.jpg.html)
(http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z475/phosphorus32/MAS%20M1936/full%20left.jpg) (http://s1191.photobucket.com/user/phosphorus32/media/MAS%20M1936/full%20left.jpg.html)
(http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z475/phosphorus32/MAS%20M1936/bolt%20side.jpg) (http://s1191.photobucket.com/user/phosphorus32/media/MAS%20M1936/bolt%20side.jpg.html)
(http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z475/phosphorus32/MAS%20M1936/bolt%20back.jpg) (http://s1191.photobucket.com/user/phosphorus32/media/MAS%20M1936/bolt%20back.jpg.html)
(http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z475/phosphorus32/MAS%20M1936/bolt%202%20lugs.jpg) (http://s1191.photobucket.com/user/phosphorus32/media/MAS%20M1936/bolt%202%20lugs.jpg.html)
(http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z475/phosphorus32/MAS%20M1936/rear%20sight%20leaf.jpg) (http://s1191.photobucket.com/user/phosphorus32/media/MAS%20M1936/rear%20sight%20leaf.jpg.html)
(http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z475/phosphorus32/MAS%20M1936/f%20and%20r%20sights.jpg) (http://s1191.photobucket.com/user/phosphorus32/media/MAS%20M1936/f%20and%20r%20sights.jpg.html)
Serial Numbers, etc.
(http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z475/phosphorus32/MAS%20M1936/SN%20receiver.jpg) (http://s1191.photobucket.com/user/phosphorus32/media/MAS%20M1936/SN%20receiver.jpg.html)
(http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z475/phosphorus32/MAS%20M1936/SN%20trigger%20guard.jpg) (http://s1191.photobucket.com/user/phosphorus32/media/MAS%20M1936/SN%20trigger%20guard.jpg.html)
(http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z475/phosphorus32/MAS%20M1936/SN%20bolt.jpg) (http://s1191.photobucket.com/user/phosphorus32/media/MAS%20M1936/SN%20bolt.jpg.html)
(http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z475/phosphorus32/MAS%20M1936/SN%20floor%20plate.jpg) (http://s1191.photobucket.com/user/phosphorus32/media/MAS%20M1936/SN%20floor%20plate.jpg.html)
(http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z475/phosphorus32/MAS%20M1936/receiver%20markings.jpg) (http://s1191.photobucket.com/user/phosphorus32/media/MAS%20M1936/receiver%20markings.jpg.html)
(http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z475/phosphorus32/MAS%20M1936/import%20stamp%20receiver.jpg) (http://s1191.photobucket.com/user/phosphorus32/media/MAS%20M1936/import%20stamp%20receiver.jpg.html)
Ammo: February 1968, not too old as surplus goes. On stripper clips.
(http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z475/phosphorus32/MAS%20M1936/cartridge%20box.jpg) (http://s1191.photobucket.com/user/phosphorus32/media/MAS%20M1936/cartridge%20box.jpg.html)
(http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z475/phosphorus32/MAS%20M1936/headstamp.jpg) (http://s1191.photobucket.com/user/phosphorus32/media/MAS%20M1936/headstamp.jpg.html)
Very nice drool2
In my experience with the French MAS 36 and owning quite a few, it is highly recommenced not to pull the hand guard/fore stock. If it is tight, leave it as is, if it's loose, then we can deal with that. A loose fitting forestock and handguard is a Mas 36's achilles heel, any looseness in that area will cause issues and the rifle to pattern like a shotgun. The forestock has a tang plate at the rear where it hooks in the receiver that can be shimmed some to tighten it up. If is loose or even if it even moves a little, it takes a little trial and error to get it back with home made shims, but, it can be done. Some accuracy issues are from the wood that has dried over the years, shrinking slightly and getting loose.
Basically, unless you can almost guarantee a perfect refit, I'd leave it alone. thumb1 Oh, and wait till the action wears and seats in, you will be rewarded with a very smooth, quick action thumb1
And whats so oddball about a 7.5 French? ::) 6.5x58Rmm Kropatschek, thats an oddball, 10.4×38mm Swiss Rimfire thats an oddball rofl
That's a sharp looker there Jon! Heck, one of these days I might pick one up if I run across it.
You've been on quite a tear lately...you'll be reaching GM status soon!
What did you give up to get the M39 (another one?!?! doh1) & MAS? Was it worth it?
Thanks for the advice GM. It looks so new (well, arsenal refurbed) that I didn't see a need to break it down, glad I didn't. For example, the first (and only) patch through the bore with CLP:
(http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z475/phosphorus32/MAS%20M1936/first20patch.jpg) (http://s1191.photobucket.com/user/phosphorus32/media/MAS%20M1936/first20patch.jpg.html)
I'm looking forward to trying out those peep sights. Funny thing, I got home late last night from the trade, took it out of my gun case and looked through the sights and I couldn't focus on the front post. Thinking it was my darn myopic eyes, due to the rear sight being so far back, I said to my wife: "I'm not sure if I'm going to do well shooting this one". Today in the daylight I looked to see a dust bunny tucked into the recess on the opposite side of the peep hole rofl A swipe with a cotton swab and it's nice and clear :))
Hey Joe,
Yeah, I'm up to 3 M39s :o To me it was a good deal. I traded my extra VZ2008, 4 of the 5 mags it came with, and $50 worth of 7.62x39 for the M39, MAS 36 and his French ammo. In the long run, I don't know, the VZ2008 will probably appreciate more than the French rifle (flat market on those). I don't see the M39s going anywhere but up. Regardless, I only had $470 in the trade for a couple of rifles and ammo that are worth $600+ today.
He was also happy. He may have had less into his than current market price, as well.
Jon that one is nice on the eyes, I may come over in the morning if you'll let me shoot it! ;)
Nooooo phos, dont go down that caliber rabbit hooooooole !!.
Just messin. :P
Looks fantastic. My father bought one in the same condition but rechambered to 308. He won it on GB for like $175 and the seller messaged him saying it wont chamber a round and he can have it for $75. :o I told him he may as well take the chance on it being something stupid, and it was.... the follower spring was bent all outta whack and everything was bone dry. A little tweeking on the spring and a little lube.... right as rain.
I've heard people complain about the angle of the bolt handle. Never found it to be an issue. Mine cycles very quickly.
Work the bolt with the palm of the hand, almost sorta kinda like a K31. thumb1 Just a little different than a Mosin or Mauser due to the angle.
Straight pull mas36... who woukda thunk it.
Quote from: Loose}{Cannon on April 20, 2015, 01:23:42 AM
Nooooo phos, dont go down that caliber rabbit hooooooole !!.
Just messin. :P
Looks fantastic. My father bought one in the same condition but rechambered to 308. He won it on GB for like $175 and the seller messaged him saying it wont chamber a round and he can have it for $75. :o I told him he may as well take the chance on it being something stupid, and it was.... the follower spring was bent all outta whack and everything was bone dry. A little tweeking on the spring and a little lube.... right as rain.
The .308 conversions are best to avoid, as they cut off the tang at the rear of the forestock and it slides forwards when you shoot it. The one I had had Century monkey prints on the feed ramps and wouldn't load from one side unless you used cheap FMJ...
At least the sights were on, since you sight them in by replacing the rear sight...
His cycles rounds perfectly now... dont think the cares much seeing its a $75 wall hanger. To him its a "look, I have one of those"
I can't imagine a rifle I'd turn down for $75. Glad he got it running with a simple fix.
Okay, I'm sure you guys could find one I'd regret buying for $75 :)) ...but generally speaking...
I checked and the trigger is about 7.5 lbs now. Not ridiculous for a military rifle (I have Mosin 91/30s that are heavier) but I'm sure it'll lighten up a bit with usage.
Shoot it :P thumb1 It's practically brand spanking new, she needs to seat in wink1
Quote from: Greasemonkey on April 20, 2015, 11:44:24 PM
Shoot it :P thumb1 It's practically brand spanking new, she needs to seat in wink1
That was excellent advice GM!
Crazy work week with an overnight trip to DC and back Wed-Thu. Took the windy Spring afternoon off today and headed out to the range for some stress relief with the MAS36 (and my problem child Yugo SKS...and a VZ52). First time racking the bolt on a round was hard, the ensuing 19 rounds were easier and easier. It was good to break in this old girl after her refurb.
I actually love this rifle. The heck with the old French disrespectful line: "only dropped once". I like peep sights in general and this one is no exception thumb1
Now, I'm not an expert marksman but I was happy with it's precision and it's accuracy, as well.
Nice little 0.6" group at 25 yds to start off and check out the sights. (Yes, I know, I quit while I was ahead. A five shot group started with two nearly on top of one another then I spread the next 3 doh1 ).
Then it hit 4 of 5 shots on the 250 yd gong!
Only had one 20 round box of PPU 139gr, so Widener's just received some of my money :))
(http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z475/phosphorus32/MAS%20M1936/3%20shot%20group%2025%20yds.jpg) (http://s1191.photobucket.com/user/phosphorus32/media/MAS%20M1936/3%20shot%20group%2025%20yds.jpg.html)
Good shooting Jon, bad news for anything within at least 250 yds! I'm impressed. clap1
Oh yea!!!! thumb1 Nice, a few more boxes, she will come around and smooth right out. One thing I found was a little shocking, the recoil, considering it is a full size round, the recoil is pretty mild. Accuracy, they are no M96 Swede or K31, but it will hold it's own thumb1
Hang on that brass, and reload, these use a standard .308 bullet.
And yea, wild work week :-\, I just returned from 3 days in Ohio.
Very nice.. Just be sure to break it in properly, you know what they say about french guns. Poor thing has never seen this much action! :P
Quote from: Loose}{Cannon on April 20, 2015, 09:28:21 AM
His cycles rounds perfectly now... dont think the cares much seeing its a $75 wall hanger. To him its a "look, I have one of those"
Sure, but he is not the only one that may be seduced by the allure of a French lady with a white hanky... fart1
By the way, Jon, that hook at the end is a handy place to keep a spare hankerchief... also protects the muzzle should you drop it for the second time... whistle12
OK... I admit it... I enjoyed shooting the one I had, and if not for the new caliber thing and the long list of todos I wouldn't mind having another one, in 7.5 this time.
Quote from: Dannyboy53 on April 24, 2015, 10:36:32 PM
Good shooting Jon, bad news for anything within at least 250 yds! I'm impressed. clap1
Thanks Danny. You're very kind :)
Quote from: Loose}{Cannon on April 25, 2015, 08:43:25 AM
Very nice.. Just be sure to break it in properly, you know what they say about french guns. Poor thing has never seen this much action! :P
Well, I did slap her bolt around a bit but she didn't seem to mind :o
Quote from: Stoned_Oli on April 25, 2015, 10:41:13 AM
By the way, Jon, that hook at the end is a handy place to keep a spare hankerchief... also protects the muzzle should you drop it for the second time... whistle12
:)) I thought it was a stacking hook but I stand corrected, now I know it's a handkerchief hook, thanks bat1
Quote from: Greasemonkey on April 24, 2015, 10:48:44 PM
Oh yea!!!! thumb1 Nice, a few more boxes, she will come around and smooth right out. One thing I found was a little shocking, the recoil, considering it is a full size round, the recoil is pretty mild. Accuracy, they are no M96 Swede or K31, but it will hold it's own thumb1
Hang on that brass, and reload, these use a standard .308 bullet.
And yea, wild work week :-\, I just returned from 3 days in Ohio.
Yeah, the kick is quite mild, just a bit more than a Swede, which I certainly don't expect it to match for accuracy. Still, it seems fairly accurate for such a short rifle (at least short for it's era).
Very nice MAS - The last mil bolt action gun -
To me they are a bargain at what folks are selling them for -
Enjoy!
Thanks Saigon! I definitely like it and too think they are undervalued. That's just microeconomics, price is low because demand is low, since not enough collectors are interested in them. Now if I could someday locate a Vietnam bring-back MAS 36 or 44 or 49 :o I'd really be happy banana time
VN bring back MAS are out there - Just knock on anyone of the VN collector and you'll have one -
I believe folks are afraid to collect French with all the bashing out there - Have to have thick skins to undertake collecting French (or Mexican now with Trump running around!) LOL -
My French collection - I've added a few more since this picture -
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3868/15254347265_bc0c57e900_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/peYvZk)
(https://flic.kr/p/peYvZk)
Wow :o That is a really fine French Connection, uh, Collection you have there thumb1 8)
I especially like the apple. Makes me hungry and thirsty at the same time.
No Lebel, no Berthier? cry1 The first, the orginial smokeless round, 8mm Lebel. thumb1
I've got the 3shot Mle 1907/15, kinda working on a Mle 1916. The one I kick myself repeatedly for passing on is a Berthier Mle 1907/15-M34, a Berthier in 7.5 French, a hard bastard to find.
(http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af283/C13mechanic/forsale/HPIM0290_zps10916bcd.jpg) (http://s1016.photobucket.com/user/C13mechanic/media/forsale/HPIM0290_zps10916bcd.jpg.html)
Hi all -
I've been trying to focus mainly on Indo Chine / Vietnam era French but I do have these 2 misfits -
I did finally found a 36 LG48 and one of my grail a CR39 -
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3946/15288010817_fd43e67c03_c.jpg)
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3947/15474231622_6e9588c5d1_c.jpg)
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5611/15288036397_0fc70cbe39_c.jpg)
Quote from: Saigon1965 on September 02, 2015, 05:41:54 PM
Hi all -
I've been trying to focus mainly on Indo Chine / Vietnam era French but I do have these 2 misfits -
I did finally found a 36 LG48 and one of my grail a CR39 -
Wow! :o Do you have any pics of the CR39 drool2
Hi - I do but let met have some time and I'll post them -
Work is just a bit tough -
Have a great holiday weekend everyone -
Saigon1965 -
Here she is - Bolt mis-matched -
I am quite happy with this example -
@Phosphorous - Thank you for letting me post these pics in your thread -
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/493/20500827125_110bb69aab_c.jpg)
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/401/20492016282_9c96a2209b_c.jpg)
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/360/20474588606_32830f3340_c.jpg)
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/521/20312765278_c0fc7fd62b_c.jpg)
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/415/20312745190_b8240f7a50_c.jpg)
Very nice! thumb1
What a precious example of this rare model. Thanks for the pics. Sure, a matching bolt would be nice, but I believe the matching stock and receiver SNs are the critical numbers for demonstrating original French arsenal manufacture of this CR39 vs. those put together from parts in the US. Is that right?
I assume there's some type of pivoting clasp and lock bar in the receiver type of arrangement to lock the stock in the extended position.
I know of roughly 15 other examples that is original -
I know SARCO sold and made up a few of these from parts kits they imported in the 90s -
Here are a few pictures of the folding stock - It's pretty neat how the sling retracts into the stock -
I understand the first ones had canvas sling to save every ounce possible -
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/413/20492020112_df4d4518eb_c.jpg)
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/519/20507160181_95aa209e84_c.jpg)
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/321/19879917033_eed8a1f6d1_c.jpg)
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5621/19878145264_4837283684_c.jpg)