It's 10 Korriku! Let's see your Albanians......

[monkeyboy]

I'd intended to post pics here, lamentably time didn't allow it so here's a link to the pics posted on another board,

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?554265-It-s-10-Korriku!-Let-s-see-your-Albanians

[fenceline]

You can't see the pics unless you are a member of that board when you click the link.

[Phosphorus32]

Here's the pic of Monkeyboy's collection...nice!   

[Dannyboy53]

That's not a "collection"...that's an ARSENAL!!  Very nice monkeyboy! 

[Loose}{Cannon]

NOW I KNOW WHERE THEY ALL WENT!!!

[Loose}{Cannon]

Wait wait wait.....   


Are you implying the Albanian model 561 is referred to as the "10th of july" rifle? 

 

[monkeyboy]

Are you implying the Albanian model 561 is referred to as the "10th of july" rifle? 

 

No, not implying that at all. However, July 10 was an important date to the communist Albanian military, as mentioned they published a monthly military magazine titled "10 Korriku", July 10th. And for what its worth an Albanian shooting manual (dated 1981) I've seen refers to the SKS as "semiautomatic rifle model 56". I can't imagine the Albanians would go through the trouble of different designations for essentially the same rifle during communist times.   


P.S. Phosphorus32 Thank you for posting the pic! Jon

[Greasemonkey]

Ok, question, nice spread by the way 

And I am asking this for my own knowledge for the future..

The Albanians called their SKS the "July 10th" Rifle, only thing I can find

is the anniversary of the centralization of the Albanian National Liberation Army in 1942 to fend off fascist Italy.

Which I guess would be under the Communist/Maoist/Marxism–Leninism/Hoxhaist Hoxha's regime, now, my question pertains to what does an event on July 10th 1942 have to do with a weapon that was built internally by Albania 25 years later, under a completely different time and era in it's history. A weapon that was not really even conceived of quite yet in 1942, much less, it could not even been used against Italy. If it was named in celebration of the Albanian Communist party, I would have thought November 8, 1941 rifle would have been appropriate, which is when Hoxha and the communist regime took control. And by Nov 1961, Albania left the protection of the Warsaw pact and Russia had officially kicked Albania to the curb by December, China had come into the picture as early as 1956 and had pal'ed up nicely by the early/mid 60's, and Chinese advisor's pretty much taught them how to build an SKS. Even what is now known as "Norinco" in 1974(info provided by:Kalashnikov AK47 Series: The 7.62 x 39mm Assault Rifle in Detail) gave the licensing to produce the Shqiptar model 56 or the ASH-78 series of Ak's, and China also supplied them with SKSs, Mosins, Type 63/68s, ammo, maybe even Aks and other weaponry, at least up until 1978 when they finally broke ties. After the Sino-Banian split, tensions between Russia and Albania kind of calmed down, and finally, in 1985 what was left of the little nation was free. 

The actual nationally recognized Albanian Independence Day is Nov 28, they celebrate their independence from the Ottoman Empire in 1912, becoming the independent Albania, which was 104 years ago, long before Enver Hoxha took office. The only actual nationally recognized holiday in July is on the 7th, the Islam holiday, "End of Ramadan" (Eid al-Fitr).

And yup, they deviated some in the official name Type 561.  So, somebody, somewhere gives it the nickname of a really not overly important event 25 yrs prior, that it had nothing to do with and they recognize it after the Chinese variant Type 56 with a 1 on the tail.

[Loose}{Cannon]

No, not implying that at all. However, July 10 was an important date to the communist Albanian military, as mentioned they published a monthly military magazine titled "10 Korriku", July 10th. And for what its worth an Albanian shooting manual (dated 1981) I've seen refers to the SKS as "semiautomatic rifle model 56". I can't imagine the Albanians would go through the trouble of different designations for essentially the same rifle during communist times.   

Right...   my issue is, there has never been any solid evidence to lead us to believe they ever called the Albanian sks a '10th of july' rifle/carbine or whatever.  All I ever found were 'expert' sks collectors repeating the same ole song and dance but the taters dont add up.   

For instance...  most (if not all) retelling of this story seems to stem from this... http://www.freeexistence.org/images/guns/#SKS  as referenced here... http://www.the 'other' boards/smf/index.php?topic=86451.0 and so on and so forth.

When you break down whats being said.... none of it makes a shred of sense.   

For instance..  the article says the following..

The Albanians called their SKS the "July 10th" Rifle, named after the anniversary of the centralization of the Albanian National Liberation Army in 1942 to fend off fascist Italy.

If that text alone doesn't make you crinkle your nose.... just doing a little googling will make your head start shaking back/forth.    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Liberation_Movement_(Albania)

So.... September 16th is the magic date regarding all that mess.   

As far as the 'semiautomatic rifle model 56' seen in a shooting manual....  I sure don't doubt it.  Albania was flooded with likely many more Chinese Type 56 carbines then they produced indigenously.   I would expect to see 56 used quite a bit and even become part of their 561 designation. 

[Phosphorus32]

http://www.aaf.mil.al/english/index.php/shtabipergjithshem/1043-historiku

"On July 10, 1943 was founded General Staff of National Liberation Army, in Elbasan. Despite the fact that it was not the classic general staff of a regular army, both in organization and number, it had its originality and its organizational features. Under a military point of view, the General Staff had a simple organization and was composed of military and non-military leaders. His commander was appointed Major Spiro Moisiu, while Enver Hoxha was appointed Commissar..."

Hoxha, leader of the communist partisans, organizing the disparate partisan groups better...and, oh, by the way, consolidating power ;-)

[Loose}{Cannon]

Oh...   it makes soooo much sense now.     

Anyone have something in Albanian referring to an sks as a '10 july' gun?


It dont matter how you word it translated to Albanian.... nothing comes up.

[Phosphorus32]

BTW, my post shouldn't be construed that I think the Albanian SKS is a "July 10th rifle" or "Hoxha's Hammer" or whatever I was just adding a different source to the history of the day July 10 in Albanian history and correcting the year to 1943.

[Greasemonkey]

I have found nothing actually tying it to the "July 10" date.....but I did find an article kind of covering the date.  A little light reading for those that dare.

[monkeyboy]

Wow, this thread detoured in a way I didn't expect. Simply put I was hoping to elicit some pics and perhaps discussion about Albanian SKS examples in your collections. I used the day of July 10th for fun. And yes that date held significance to the communist Albanian military, note the monthly military magazine titled "10 Korriku".

I wasn't trying to get to the bottom of the July 10th nickname. But since it came up I'll bite. I'm skeptical the "Model 561" designation is a communist era name for the Albanian made SKS's. I've seen the document posted by Greasemonkey a number of times. Given the dates it obviously isn't something published back in the day of communism, but rather something made much more recently.

Notice it's in Albanian and English? So obviously it's intended audience isn't exclusively Albanian. That worries me. Notice the pic of the SKS isn't even an Albanian example? That worries me. The document says the factory produced those rifles but it can't get the pic right? What else doesn't it get right?

Notice the letters SALW? That's Small Arms and Light Weapons. Who uses that acronym? Typically the UN and it's anti-gun supporters. That worries me.

I see a document produced to educate someone (UN do gooders?)what the factory produced in the past, I don't see a document intended for general consumption. I don't think the composers of the document were too worried about what firearm collectors in the states would be able to gather from it.

Perhaps the Albanians do call the SKS's they produced the Model 561? I don't know. But I really doubt they did back when they were produced.

[firstchoice]

Wow, what a collection of the Albanian SKS! If you remember the production year of these in the order that they're lined up in this pic, it would be interesting to see the variance in stock colors by year. I understand that some may be replacement stocks, but yours is the largest side-by-side pic I've seen to use for that purpose. Thanks for posting monkeyboy!



firstchoice

[Loose}{Cannon]

Yup...  I been saying for years that I am convinced the early years were of a darker finish.

Perhaps a dif in oil/varnish vs shellac?

Monkey....   we attend to get a little sidetracked in this research based conversations.  Dont let this discourage you as we simply like to hash out fact/fiction.

[monkeyboy]

If you remember the production year of these in the order that they're lined up in this pic, it would be interesting to see the variance in stock colors by year.

They're mostly arranged by year, with a couple of rogue rifles in the mix. From the left to right are three stamped serial number undated examples followed by 67's, 68's and so on. And yes there are a number of replacement stocks in the group.

What's always missing from conversations concerning stock color on Albanian SKS's is the fact that early stocks are not beech . They appear to be the same wood the Chinese used for SKS stocks. I've long suspected the Chinese supplied longer stock blanks when helping the Albanians set up tooling and produce their SKS's.

[Loose}{Cannon]

You may be right... dif wood is entirely possible.  I have juat noticed the color difference  for the most part.  My 1969 is very well used and oil/cosmo soaked so its difficult to see any grain yet alone see if its beech or not.

[firstchoice]

My '69 Alby has the "fish scaling" in the stock. Is it the Beech wood that has the "fish scaling", as I hear it referred to?





firstchoice

[Loose}{Cannon]

Yup...