Author Topic: Temperamental SKS  (Read 12139 times)

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Offline Greasemonkey

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Re: Temperamental SKS
« Reply #20 on: June 20, 2018, 12:40:10 AM »
Hey, at least the purist in me didn't just start out with, rip that useless scope thingy off and throw that pos as hard as you can. rofl

I tried to be nice and over look it.. my tourettes therapy is starting to pay off rofl2
I'm going to make him an offer he can't refuse......

Leave the gun, take the cannoli.

I said I was an addict........I didn't say I had a problem

Offline BadMonk

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Re: Temperamental SKS
« Reply #21 on: June 20, 2018, 08:02:34 AM »
I suffer from Tourette Syndrome too.  What therapy is making a difference for you?  I've tried forms of 'talk' therapy and, of course, medication but not great results.

Offline BadMonk

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Re: Temperamental SKS
« Reply #22 on: June 20, 2018, 02:53:34 PM »
Thought I might have gotten you, Greasemonkey, but I didn't fool you.  Anyhow...

I took the abhorrent abomination (scope and mount) off the SKS.  Put the original receiver cover on and headed to the range.  Firearm had the exact same problem(s) - couldn't pull the trigger, failed to fire when trigger did pull, pull the magazine and it dry fires perfectly.  So the abomination doesn't seem to be the problem.

I fed three rounds directly into the chamber, no mag.  It fired two of the three rounds but once it failed to fire.  That sure sounds like the lacquer build-up that you explained, Gm.

Empty cartridges fly 8 feet, fairly consistently.  But looks like an acetone bath is next on the agenda!

Offline Greasemonkey

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Re: Temperamental SKS
« Reply #23 on: June 20, 2018, 05:45:17 PM »
Hit the gas tube and clean it too, I mean while your there, scrubbing stuffs.. :)

Naw...I aint got it, but I might, wife and a few others think I might, maybe I'm just too blunt and don't sugarcoat stuff, and I'm kinda known for my very "colorful" vocabulary rofl
I'm going to make him an offer he can't refuse......

Leave the gun, take the cannoli.

I said I was an addict........I didn't say I had a problem

Offline BadMonk

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Re: Temperamental SKS
« Reply #24 on: June 20, 2018, 05:54:28 PM »
funny...wives.  mine says i have asperger's syndrome because i have difficulties in social interaction and nonverbal communication.  in other words, she thinks i'm blunt and not tactful.   chuckles1

yeah, i'll check the gas tube while i'm there.  i think i cleaned it - along with everything else - when i got the rifle...but my memory may be clouded due to my 'condition'

Offline Justin Hell

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Re: Temperamental SKS
« Reply #25 on: June 20, 2018, 10:26:24 PM »
Ok, are we talking the original magazine or an aftermarket?  I have had similar issues with Tapco mags that are bound up a little and preventing full feeding (or any at all in some cases).

If it dry fires without a mag, it seems like it still might not be allowing it to fully go into battery...to allow the trigger group to fire. If it is a factory magazine...perhaps the feed lips are bent inward a little?

Offline BadMonk

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Re: Temperamental SKS
« Reply #26 on: June 20, 2018, 11:00:50 PM »
Tapco mag but the mag doesn't seem to be a problem, esp after today. 
This afternoon after getting no better results from removing the scope, I hand fed rounds directly into the chamber with no mag.  Same problem with and without the scope, with and without a mag.
 
It seems to be what Greasemonkey mentioned from the start.  The round isn't fully seated in battery so the rifle can't/won't/shouldn't fire.  Seems like the scope and the mag are probably eliminated as the cause.  So next I try to eliminate lacquer build up in the chamber.  I hope cleaning it out real good does the trick.

Offline Loose}{Cannon

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Re: Temperamental SKS
« Reply #27 on: June 20, 2018, 11:05:44 PM »
For clarification.....   you need to put that .410 brush on a rod, chuck it up in a drill, and get after that chamber from the rear of the receiver....  disassembled of course.
      
1776 will commence again if you try to take our firearms... It doesn't matter how many Lenins you get out on the street begging for them to be taken.

Offline BadMonk

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Re: Temperamental SKS
« Reply #28 on: June 20, 2018, 11:56:47 PM »
Thanks, I probably wouldn't have gone that route but now I know.  Makes sense to attack it like that.  I hope to find time tomorrow...maybe day after tomorrow.  Will report back to this thread when I get it cleaned and out to the range.

Offline Loose}{Cannon

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Re: Temperamental SKS
« Reply #29 on: June 20, 2018, 11:58:16 PM »
Does the bolt serial number match the receiver?
      
1776 will commence again if you try to take our firearms... It doesn't matter how many Lenins you get out on the street begging for them to be taken.

Offline Loose}{Cannon

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Re: Temperamental SKS
« Reply #30 on: June 21, 2018, 12:02:59 AM »
Have you inserted the bolt and bolt only into battery position in the receiver and verified the bottom rear angle of the bolt drops down into battery?   The bottom rear of the bolt should drop down just forward of the locking lug that runs left/right through the receiver.

No chambered round while checking this.  Unless you have a 'go gauge' and you can verify with the gauge also.
      
1776 will commence again if you try to take our firearms... It doesn't matter how many Lenins you get out on the street begging for them to be taken.

Offline BadMonk

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Re: Temperamental SKS
« Reply #31 on: June 21, 2018, 12:14:13 AM »
Good questions.
Unlike the receiver, there's no serial number on the bolt.
Yes, the rear end of the bolt drops down when pushed into position in front of the locking lug.  There's a slight tension when there to push the rear end of the bolt up and back.

Offline Justin Hell

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Re: Temperamental SKS
« Reply #32 on: June 21, 2018, 12:33:18 AM »
if you sand down the stuff Tapco prints on the sides of the mag, hidden when installed...if you do have any binding issues, that clears it right up. They work best in plastic stocks...and can pinch enough to cause issues sometimes in wood...I would blame humidity for that, but I am pretty sure it is just the cosmoline. :)

It sounds as if the chamber probably is the issue, I have only had 1k rounds of the lacquer coated stuff...still haven't finished it, and spread it over several guns. I did have some similar cycling issues on one that may have tasted more of it before she was mine. A nice reaming as LC suggested should clear that up.

Hopefully that will get you squared away and you can put that (pretty neat) abomination back on.  rofl2
I hope to pick one of those up someday for a decent price and form a real opinion. If you choose to try the red dot, ScoutScopes makes a very solid mount that replaces the rear sight....and would get it farther forward.  Avoid the Tapco handguard mount...and ESPECIALLY any NC Star handguard mount if you want to go for the scout optic option. There is a laundry list of reasons against both.  The ScoutScopes mount is lightweight and tidy. With a red dot, there is no need for shell deflection measures too. 

Hope to hear good news from your next range trip.

Offline Loose}{Cannon

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Re: Temperamental SKS
« Reply #33 on: June 21, 2018, 10:19:16 AM »
Good questions.
Unlike the receiver, there's no serial number on the bolt.
Yes, the rear end of the bolt drops down when pushed into position in front of the locking lug.  There's a slight tension when there to push the rear end of the bolt up and back.

There is only a few causes for what is happening here.....

#1  The chamber is gummed up causing the round to not fully seat and the bolt to not go into full battery...... ultimately not allowing the disconnector to be engaged.

#2  The bolt is not original to the rifle and the headspaceing is insufficient which is not allowing full battery.

#3  The disconnector is for some reason not long enough to be engaged by the bolt when in full battery, or the trigger group it belongs to is not seated in the riffle fully/correctly. 


From what you said that I quoted above.....    Im suspect the bolt is a replacement (not serialized) and you have a replacement bolt that has not been headspaced.  With the bolt (no round chambered) fully seated into battery, you should still have some front/back 'free-play' or movement of the bolt.  Not alot, but it should be there, perhaps .020" or so.  X39 is not a rimmed cartridge, so the shoulder of the round is where it seats. This small free-play movement in the bolt will be taken up when a round is chambered.

If you say the bolt has no numbers, and it requires anything but gravity for the bolt to go in/out of battery......  Cannon says the bolt has insufficient headspacing.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2018, 10:24:08 AM by Loose}{Cannon »
      
1776 will commence again if you try to take our firearms... It doesn't matter how many Lenins you get out on the street begging for them to be taken.

Offline BadMonk

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Re: Temperamental SKS
« Reply #34 on: June 21, 2018, 11:41:01 AM »
Thanks very much for the detailed response and reasoning.  You may be onto something wrt the bolt.

Now, I didn’t clarify very well what I stated about the bolt.  I’ll give it another go but I’m relatively new to the intricacies and moving parts of firearms…so you’re dealing with that.

The bolt has no serial number on it.  (I think this was supposed to be a matching numbers gun.  Must look into that.)  The disconnector sits beneath the bolt when it’s in battery position, right?  The disconnector is putting a small bit of tension on the bolt to move it up and back, basically moving it out of battery.  Otherwise the un-serialized bolt drops into place.

However, there is no free front-to-back movement available once in position.  There’s none whatsoever…and so it’s possible that it’s not even dropping down or forward as far as it should.  Am I understanding this? 

It seems (again, a novice speaking) like the disconnector is ‘probably’ fine without knowing more. But the spacing, not so much.

I own a few other SKS rifles and looked at what those bolts do.  There are varying degrees of movement in them, unlike this troubled rifle.  There’s no space to give in the rifle so there’s none to be taken up when the round is chambered…and that means it won’t go bang.

So besides looking up the seller’s ad/listing and maybe the seller…can see if a different bolt will work in the gun or is that asking for even more problems?  I mean if the ‘temporary replacement’ bolt has a small amount of play, can I take it to the range and see if it will fire as intended?

Offline Loose}{Cannon

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Re: Temperamental SKS
« Reply #35 on: June 21, 2018, 12:18:04 PM »
Quote
The disconnector sits beneath the bolt when it’s in battery position, right?  The disconnector is putting a small bit of tension on the bolt to move it up and back, basically moving it out of battery.

The disconnector in no way/shape/form is there to 'lift' the bolt out of battery. The action is specifically designed for the bolt to ONLY come out of battery if the bolt carrier is driven to the rear via the gas system.  There is a reason for those hooks on the bottom of the carrier.  You need to be inspecting these things with the barreled action COMPLETELY disassembled, which means.... no trigger group installed and subsequently no disconnector as a variable.


Quote
However, there is no free front-to-back movement available once in position.  There’s none whatsoever…and so it’s possible that it’s not even dropping down or forward as far as it should.  Am I understanding this?

It seems (again, a novice speaking) like the disconnector is ‘probably’ fine without knowing more. But the spacing, not so much.

Basically.


Quote
I own a few other SKS rifles and looked at what those bolts do.  There are varying degrees of movement in them, unlike this troubled rifle.  There’s no space to give in the rifle so there’s none to be taken up when the round is chambered…and that means it won’t go bang.

So besides looking up the seller’s ad/listing and maybe the seller…can see if a different bolt will work in the gun or is that asking for even more problems?  I mean if the ‘temporary replacement’ bolt has a small amount of play, can I take it to the range and see if it will fire as intended?

The problem here is....  I would never recommend swapping bolts and risking bad things to happen to your face.  Bolts are headspaced to a specific gun.  If you grab a bolt from another carbine that creates excessive headspace in the 'problem' carbine...   Get a good life insurance policy for your family.   :o


The rifle is easily fixable, you simply need to verify/correct the headspace issue.  You need to......

#1  Buy a set of 'go'/'no-go' headspace gauges, or atleast the 'go' gauge.

#2  Remove the projectile and powder from a round without damaging the casing in any way, and we can use that as a 'go' gauge. 


Once we have a gauge to work with and see exactly where things are...... we can adjust the bolt accordingly.
      
1776 will commence again if you try to take our firearms... It doesn't matter how many Lenins you get out on the street begging for them to be taken.

Offline Greasemonkey

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Re: Temperamental SKS
« Reply #36 on: June 21, 2018, 04:19:47 PM »
Head space  :o pretty rare occurrence from what I remember.  But an unnumbered bolt can make one wonder...
I'm going to make him an offer he can't refuse......

Leave the gun, take the cannoli.

I said I was an addict........I didn't say I had a problem

Offline BadMonk

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Re: Temperamental SKS
« Reply #37 on: June 21, 2018, 04:43:38 PM »
I'm waiting for the seller to get back to me because this was supposed to be a matching numbers firearm. But I ended up with an odd bolt.  I should have checked it closer upon actual purchase (usually do) but it was in a busy Wal-Mart parking lot, uncooperative weather, at dinner time, lots of cars...everything rushed.  When I heard Murray's FP, my brain just went "okay" I guess. 

Offline Greasemonkey

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Re: Temperamental SKS
« Reply #38 on: June 21, 2018, 04:49:31 PM »
I would still clean the chamber and tube thumb1

And maybe ask the seller how he fired it without any issues like you said in your orignial post..... Obviously it wasn't firing correctly.
I'm going to make him an offer he can't refuse......

Leave the gun, take the cannoli.

I said I was an addict........I didn't say I had a problem

Offline BadMonk

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Re: Temperamental SKS
« Reply #39 on: June 21, 2018, 05:02:28 PM »
Now that I know about lacquer, those that may have been fired with lacquered ammo will get the treatment.

Yeah, I'd like to know how he fired it without any problems too.  These hiccups aren't a once in fifty thing; it's consistently a problem.  So we'll see...  And I'll get the right bolt if he has it or even hints that he may have it.  I'll be in touch here.