Was the SKS made after 93?

[Power Surge]

From what I understand, the 93 commercial guns are the last of the SKSs that we have on the guide. But did the Chinese make any after 93? I know that the US ban took place in 93-94 on all firearms imported from China, so I'm curious if that's why we only see SKS's up to 93, or if the Chinese did in fact stop making them in 93.

[running-man]

Yes and no.  They 'produced' guns for export all the way up to 1994 (signing of the Clinton EO ban).  Whether those guns are 'new' or not is arguable:

1994 stamped gun with clear indications another S/N and arsenal stamp was scrubbed beneath it:


The rest of the world continues to enjoy new imports, however.
You see guns like this outside the US and I can only assume that the 01 stands for 2001 'manufacture' (or refurbishment, refitting, what-have-you):

[Loose}{Cannon]

Nah..  the last one is just one of those scrubbed guns that cant be dated.

[firstchoice]

  Has any discussion been done on thickness of the receiver, new, as opposed to scrubbed receiver thickness'?
I've seen many receivers that look like they've been milled quite a bit since new.

  This is an Oval 974 arsenal imported by KFS that was scrubbed at least the one time. Second pic shows the previous SN.



  As opposed to the Oval 974 imported by KFS. (Picture of PowerSurge's rifle) Note that the Indexing mark and number have been milled off completely from receiver side.



  This is another Oval 974 imported by, well..someplace in LA, CA. (more of that great electro-pencil engraving)



  Here's a /156\ arsenal imported by KSI. (with the West Coast Rail) The barrel/receiver indexing marks and numbers are both still visible.

 
  I don't have more examples out of the stocks right now, but the thought occured to me of possible original measurements of new receivers and the amounts of milled material from scrubbed receivers. This may be easier to measure on threaded barrel receivers than the pinned barrel counterparts? I wonder if anything could be gleaned from that?

  firstchoice

 

[Power Surge]

That's an interesting subject, firstchoice.

I could check the side thickness on my guns vs my KFS.

Also, I'm almost positive that receiver match stamp was probably "re-done" after milling, note the two 35s are totally different fonts.

[Justin Hell]

Ha!

The hand engraved import stamp...I have only seen one in the wild and I thought THAT person had bad handwriting. 

When I first saw it I thought some kid might have destroyed a bringback because he wanted a real Norinco.
Unfortunately, I didn't pay much attention to other features of it, as I ended up getting a different one and T53 that day...is there a specific importer/time frame that did that?

[Loose}{Cannon]

I find it rather interesting that about 50 importers labeled them exactly the same way (made in china BY norinco).  Notice not a single one of them says (made in china for norinco).  Who gives credit to an export company for building the rifle???   Thats retarded on so many levels. 

And then you have this little gem that states the factory under norinco in which produced/reworked the gun for commercial use.

[Loose}{Cannon]

Ill also add...

There is only ONE board on the planet with a few individuals that think norinco only exported rifles.  There is a crapton of other guns imported from china in the same timeframe with collectors/followers and none of them have any doubt as to who made said weapons.  How this fabrication of misinformation became so prolific and concentrated at one board location is anyones guess. 

[firstchoice]

That's an interesting subject, firstchoice.

I could check the side thickness on my guns vs my KFS.

Also, I'm almost positive that receiver match stamp was probably "re-done" after milling, note the two 35s are totally different fonts.

  I actually have you to thank, reference, blame  for the idea, Power Surge! I was comparing the two 974 rifles and noticed the difference in the receiver appearance. I then started looking at pics of SKS' and found a lot of variations in that way. I doubt we'll see an exact OD dimension for a new receiver that was repeated continuosly, but, there had to be some sort of blueprint, drawings, whatever they used in 1956 and forward for the receiver. There had to be some sort of starting point measuement. I haven't used a set of calipers on any yet. I'm curious to see if they milled them flat, or took most of the "meat" off the top, where the original SN was and left as much as they could on the bottom for stock fit? If they milled them flat, I'm wondering how many times could they scrub them before stock clearance and receiver strength was affected?
  You're right on the font of the 35's. Definitely different. I don't know if they're done at the same time, same person? Or different stations, diffferent stamps? I haven't compared any of the SKS' with the indexing stamps yet, either.   

firstchoice

[Power Surge]

That's an interesting subject, firstchoice.

I could check the side thickness on my guns vs my KFS.

Also, I'm almost positive that receiver match stamp was probably "re-done" after milling, note the two 35s are totally different fonts.

  I actually have you to thank, reference, blame  for the idea, Power Surge! I was comparing the two 974 rifles and noticed the difference in the receiver appearance. I then started looking at pics of SKS' and found a lot of variations in that way. I doubt we'll see an exact OD dimension for a new receiver that was repeated continuosly, but, there had to be some sort of blueprint, drawings, whatever they used in 1956 and forward for the receiver. There had to be some sort of starting point measuement. I haven't used a set of calipers on any yet. I'm curious to see if they milled them flat, or took most of the "meat" off the top, where the original SN was and left as much as they could on the bottom for stock fit? If they milled them flat, I'm wondering how many times could they scrub them before stock clearance and receiver strength was affected?
  You're right on the font of the 35's. Definitely different. I don't know if they're done at the same time, same person? Or different stations, diffferent stamps? I haven't compared any of the SKS' with the indexing stamps yet, either.   

firstchoice

I did a visual look at my different Chinese guns vs that 974 Kengs. The radius of the corner is way thinner on the 974 gun, so it's definitely been milled. Also, notice that square cross pin at the back? It's milled flat with the receiver on mine, but on unmilled guns you can see the stake marks around it.

[firstchoice]

  I had just noticed the stake marks on the cross pin. Although, I don't remember seeing the stake marks there on my other rifles. Now I'm going to have to tear everything apart and look at things all over again. My wife's gonna be sooo....happy!

  What would be the areas to look at, in general? Just the front and back of the receiver, top and bottom measurements? Does RM take these measurements on the survey?

firstchoice

[Power Surge]

Also notice that my gun and your gun are made from two different style receivers. The shapes are different, and at the front by the barrel the shape is different. So it actually looks like mine is machined way lower than it is.

[running-man]

This is a great thread! 

Unfortunately I don't take anything this detailed in the survey. I wouldn't even know what questions to ask to get us there. This is one of those deals where it's absolutely imperative to have the physical gun in your hands to look over all the subtleties that might give some clue as to the scrubbing status.  The peen marks on the bolt locking key stock could possibly be a great indicator if it's consistent. I guess it depends on how they scrubbed the gun. Did they take off just the numbers, or was it the whole left face of the receiver from top to bottom?  Did they mill them all to scrub with a slim cut, or was it manually done with a wire wheel or grinder?  You'd think if they took off too much, there would be some serious left/right slop within the stock.

This is a great subject to work on as I don't think it's ever been tackled like this before by the 'real' collectors. Good job guys! 

[Loose}{Cannon]

Im justa watchin.   Ok..and a little sidetracked!

I would think the original stampings would be filled first and then flat sanded to prevent extreme size reduction. 

[running-man]

I don't have them handy (we're out camping this weekend) but I've got a few images of obviously scrubbed receivers. I'll post them when I get a chance.

[Power Surge]

I don't have them handy (we're out camping this weekend) but I've got a few images of obviously scrubbed receivers. I'll post them when I get a chance.

We should probably split this topic too...two different subjects here.

[Loose}{Cannon]

What exactly are we taking about here?   

[Power Surge]

What exactly are we taking about here?   

a- If the chinese continued to produce the SKS after the 94 US import ban

b- identifying scrubbed receivers

[Loose}{Cannon]

From what I understand, the 93 commercial guns are the last of the SKSs that we have on the guide. But did the Chinese make any after 93? I know that the US ban took place in 93-94 on all firearms imported from China, so I'm curious if that's why we only see SKS's up to 93, or if the Chinese did in fact stop making them in 93.

Of course...  We only see up to 1993 because of the import ban. Looking for indications of post 94 production on pre 94 guns is futile.  You will need to look at chinese interweb for indications and they have tight lips.  If they did produce them post 94 they will likely be just like the late imported guns which mostly consisted of older guns that were refurbed, crubbed, convertet etc.  The chinese were no longer using the sks except for police and honor duty. Given the fact it was retired 14 years prior to 94, they had an enormous inventory.

Hope this helps.   

[Power Surge]

From what I understand, the 93 commercial guns are the last of the SKSs that we have on the guide. But did the Chinese make any after 93? I know that the US ban took place in 93-94 on all firearms imported from China, so I'm curious if that's why we only see SKS's up to 93, or if the Chinese did in fact stop making them in 93.

Of course...  We only see up to 1993 because of the import ban. Looking for indications of post 94 production on pre 94 guns is futile.  You will need to look at chinese interweb for indications and they have tight lips.  If they did produce them post 94 they will likely be just like the late imported guns which mostly consisted of older guns that were refurbed, crubbed, convertet etc.  The chinese were no longer using the sks except for police and honor duty. Given the fact it was retired 14 years prior to 94, they had an enormous inventory.

Hope this helps.   

Interesting. So the Chinese stopped using the SKS themselves in 1980, the same year Norinco was formed? Does that mean that all the guns made after 1980 were strictly for export sales?

The reason for my question, was because I had seen people mention that Canada was still getting SKSs after they were banned here in 94, and I have seen guns like the one RM posted above, where it looks like they have later year two digit identifiers.