SKS-FILES FORUM
AK and AR => AR Family => Topic started by: Tudorp on May 28, 2015, 05:39:38 PM
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My Multi-cal set. .223/5.56NATO/300 AAC Blackout. The 300BO is on the lower to throw the big rocks, and when I want to shoot cheaper, quick upper switch and back at it.
(http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff490/Tudorp/P1120595_zpse3pj6cxf.jpg)
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Tudorp that is waaay too cool thumb1
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One of the aspects I like about the AR platform is being able to change calibers simply by getting another upper. 8)
Looks good... Cannon likey
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Ironically, being as I trained in the military on the M16, and was awarded multiple small arms marksman on the platform, never paid much more attention to the platform after my military career. I have always loved the old skool, wood & steel (still do, and the basis of my gun collection), and just recently started playing with the AR platform from a civilian standpoint. I have to admit, being a vintage gun guy, do enjoy the AR platform. But, that said, still love the old classics. ;)
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I just want my SAW back.
cry2
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I like your set up and I have contemplated 300 AAC before but ultimately I decided against it. The high cost and low availability of the cartridge was a ding, essentially the same ballistic energy as the SS109 bullet due to the much lower velocity of the .308 bullet. The 300 AAC cartridge is more expensive and less powerful than the cheap and plentiful 7.62x39 for which I have plenty of rifles.
I'm not trying to be negative, it still seems like a cool idea to me...basically switching calibers with the pull of a pin 8) I'm just wondering what the performance or tactical advantages are to the 300 AAC? I haven't looked at detailed ballistic charts but I would assume it is more stable than the light .224 bullet over long distances and may retain more ballistic energy. Do you know if that's the case? The ability of sub-sonic versions of the cartridge to be silenced effectively would clearly be an advantage for a real world "operator", which I obviously am not rofl
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I like your set up and I have contemplated 300 AAC before but ultimately I decided against it. The high cost and low availability of the cartridge was a ding, essentially the same ballistic energy as the SS109 bullet due to the much lower velocity of the .308 bullet. The 300 AAC cartridge is more expensive and less powerful than the cheap and plentiful 7.62x39 for which I have plenty of rifles.
I'm not trying to be negative, it still seems like a cool idea to me...basically switching calibers with the pull of a pin 8) I'm just wondering what the performance or tactical advantages are to the 300 AAC? I haven't looked at detailed ballistic charts but I would assume it is more stable than the light .224 bullet over long distances and may retain more ballistic energy. Do you know if that's the case? The ability of sub-sonic versions of the cartridge to be silenced effectively would clearly be an advantage for a real world "operator", which I obviously am not rofl
Most of the people I've asked that same question to, pretty much said it's because of the ease of changing the AR platform. It's literally just a barrel change. The bolt, mags, and everything else used are the same since you're using the .223 casing still. I want a 7.62x39 AR...mainly so I can use the same ammo as my SKS's. But then you have a gun with unique parts, and special magazines, only used on that one gun. So I can see the appeal. I have a guy at work who shoots 300 blackout...but he said he only shoots it because he makes his own ammo from his spent .223 casings.
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Thats pretty much it. The military has been wanting to move to a caliber that would carry more energy, further, but didn't want to go through the expense of a platform change, or replacing magazine, and other parts. I also have an Arsenal SLR101s, but, wanted a larger caliber in the AR platform too. I had considered a 7.62X39 to share ammo with the ak, and sks, but I decided against it due to feeding issues it's known for because of the case shape. Yeah, ammo is pricey, but I am now looking into setting up to reload the 300BO that would bring the cost down to around .30 a round. Right now it can be found as low as .80, but can also go up over a buck. The caliber is still new, and as it gains support, it will be more available, and the cost will come down, but as of now, it is pricey. If it don't, and for some reason it craters (which I doubt it will because the military loves the round, and everyone that shoots it loves it), and ammo goes away, all I have to do us change the barrel, and I have it back to a standard 5.56NATO. I doubt the round will go away, it's been gaining more and more momentum. If it does, .223 brass is easily converted to accept a .308 bullet, which is pretty much what the 300 BO is. So, its easy enough to make your own ammo out of available stuff.
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Well guys, I have several AR-15's in 5.56, a pistol build in 5.56, another build in x39, but have steered away from the 300BO due to ammo expense. Instead, I bought a 80% lower in .308, 16" carbine upper and love it. It shoots 'lights out' all day.
Marcus
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Good info guys. Thanks thumb1
Now you just need a .458 SOCOM upper with a can :o :))
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Soo.. 300bo is a 223 cut darn near in half and then necked up to 7.62.
I dont get it. Thats what x39 is for.
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I dont get it. Thats what x39 is for.
I kind of do, not needing another bolt, extractor, specific magazines, etc makes it desireable to the AR crowd. Muzzle velocity and muzzle energy just don't compare to your typical 7.62x39 though. Accuracy is probably much better though.
http://www.ballistics101.com/300aac_blackout.php
http://www.ballistics101.com/7.62x39.php
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Soo.. 300bo is a 223 cut darn near in half and then necked up to 7.62.
I dont get it. Thats what x39 is for.
Well, yes and no. It's a .223 case, opened up to fit a 7.62 bullet. So it's a longer case than 7.62x39, which means you can build a hotter round. But the ironic thing is, most of the people I know making their own 300bo, are loading them sub sonic...so at that point, there's no velocity advantage. The "reason" for 300bo, is because if you have an existing AR, all you need to change is the barrel to run 300bo.
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Like I said.. its necked up to 7.62. :))
And nope... Its shorter then x39. thumb1
It makes zero sense unless hour going sub sonic which you can do with x39 also, so :-\
You can change the barrel out to any caliber you want and bolts in x39 are a dime a dozen.
(http://www.guns.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/300BLKwith762x39mm556NATO3.jpg)
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Thats alot of case work just to have a wannabe x39. rofl
Its the name I tell ya... If it was called Turd Bucket 762 nobody would care about it. chuckles1
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Its the name I tell ya... If it was called Turd Bucket 762 nobody would care about it. chuckles1
rofl rofl rofl rofl Darn near fell outa my chair LC...thats friggin hilarious chuckles1
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6.5 Grendel is king... Speed, knock down, and accuracy.
Neck down a x39 to 6.5 and fire-form... done.
223/300TB/Grendel
(http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz229/alleycat72_bucket/308Covert010.jpg)
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100yard world record.... guess what caliber it is.
(http://accurateshooter.net/Blog/ezell01.jpg)
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I dont mean to put down anyone with a "300bo", But... This is what happens when the AR gurus want x39 without admitting they want x39.
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Like I said.. its necked up to 7.62. :))
And nope... Its shorter then x39. thumb1
It makes zero sense unless hour going sub sonic which you can do with x39 also, so :-\
You can change the barrel out to any caliber you want and bolts in x39 are a dime a dozen.
(http://www.guns.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/300BLKwith762x39mm556NATO3.jpg)
Well, that's what I get for second hand info, lol. I'll take that swift kick in the dick now please. rofl
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Lol
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This is all fascinating Tudorp, I have considered getting into the AR platform. But I'm very much satisfied with our SKSs and the AR gets a tad "rich" for my blood!
I am envious of you however.
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I considered building a 7.62X39 AR platform, but read a lot about it before making the choice. I actually wanted a 7.62X39 AR so I can streamline my ammo needs and share ammo with the Arsenal SLR and SKS. But after some research find that it is a finicky round for the AR platform. There are issues of reliability due to the tapered brass of the X39 round. And then I loved the idea of all the same parts with the exception of the barrel. If by chance the 300BO round does't make it to mainstream, or gets too expensive to even load yourself, All I have lost is a barrel. Just yank the barrel and toss it in the tool box to use as a cheater/pry bar. ;). All my other parts are good to put back to .223/5.56NATO. But, I also like the round because it is more accurate then the AK platform. Im still new to the 300BO, but so far, I do like it.
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Now I 'know' the AR guys are full of BS. The chambers are cut to the same saami specs as anything else in x39. ::) Your talkin about guys that mix-n-match crap and order junk online from the cheapest vender, then slap it all to gether and wonder why it wont cycle perfectly. Ohhh... must be this crap x39 case/chamber... maybe I should go BLACKOUT baby, Yeah!
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Your talkin about guys that mix-n-match crap and order junk online from the cheapest vender, then slap it all to gether and wonder why it wont cycle perfectly. Ohhh... must be this crap x39 case/chamber... maybe I should go BLACKOUT baby, Yeah!
You are probably right. One reason I won't buy bubba's home built AR, lol. There is so much crap out there, and if thrown together, any caliber is subject to issues. I also know a few guys that actually know what they are doing have great success with X39 ARs. But, myself being new to the platform, and actually DON'T know what I am doing, just purchased a factory built 330BO upper. I wanted to give it a "shot" (no pun... ok, pun). The main reason is if I don't like it, I can pull the barrel and keep all the other parts and just put it back together as a standard .223. I am hoping that ammo prices come down though, but it also gives me an excuse to get into reloading which I have been dragging my feet on. ;) SO far, I like it. But, it's still up in the air as far as it goes. We'll play it out and see how it goes. I have known many "AR guys" that are full of schit, and just because they built an AR on their kitchen table, think they are Smiths, lol.. I'm not a "real" AR guy, I'm a vintage milsurp guy personally. Those I know, AR, not so much other than what I used in the Military as a "user".
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Black Hole Weaponrys Grendel barrels come with a x39 bolt. :)
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:-\
(http://vomschmidthaus.com/img/300blk/drop_chart_300blk.png)
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Is that chart, yards, and bullet drop in inches?
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Yes
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Interesting. Looks like 300bo, and X36 show about the same as far as that goes.
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Same bullet, same speeds = same results
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Same bullet, same speeds = same results
Yep, not a shocker. Just made mention because there was a mention of the shorter brass not holding the same charge.
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I believe the guy who did that chart used specs from factory loads.
Basically what you have is x39 barrels for the AR being chambered in BO. So the twist rate is the same and so the same speeds are reached to stabilize the bullet. The slightly smaller casing can simply receive a hotter powder thats less case filling to get it there. It looks like the shallow seating depth is increasing the volume anyhow.
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I hate to push the Grendel further, but.... guys want 7.62x39 knockdown power and redesign the wheel to make a buck with a fancy name.
Why not get MORE knockdown power then x39 and MORE accurate then 556?
Future Weapons -6.5 Grendel Alexander Arms S03E07 | Airsoft Gun | Pistols | M4 | Ak-47 | Sniper - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNPexr5HvQM&feature=youtube_gdata_player)
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That looks like a nice round. The biggest draw of the blackout though with the military was that they can use it in exsisting hardware with minimal upgrade (barrel). They wanted something that they don't have to retool up with new platform, magazine etc. The grendal is similar, but a completely redesigned upper I take it?
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Where you hear the US mil is converting to BO?
No... you buy the barrel that comes with the bolt head which comes off the carrier in seconds. Then you just use a x39 mag which are a dime/dozen.
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Where you hear the US mil is converting to BO?
They haven't bought into any replacement yet. But from what I am reading is that they are testing it amungst other things I assume. From the articles, they seem to like the BO, but I am sure they like parts of it, as well as parts of others as well. But, as far as standardizing on it, they haven't yet as far as I know.
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Laff... the gov is always screwing with calibers etc. The big push on the bo comes from AR guys wanting it to become cheaper. ::)
We are broke anyhow... the BO gurus can keep dreaming and writing their articles.
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Thats true. Im not hardcore BO. I just got into it cheap, even knowing the ammo is pricey. Kinda like buying a printer cheap knowing ink cartridges are expensive.. lol. Im not even an AR guy, just got the BO to play with. If it goes standard or not, I really don't care one way or the other because my heart is and has always been the vintage military guns. I plan to load my own BO anyway soon. Plenty of .223 brass for me to use, and .308 bullets, so I will never run out of raw materials to load my own. When I get bored with doing that, I'll just yank the barrel, and move on to something else.. That is kinda cool about the AR platform is there are lots of ways to go with it.
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The bo pushers are youtube operator wannabe commando guys that do runnin and gunnin crap playing out scenarios that go right out the window in real life combat. They also forget we already have larger caliber weapons such as the 762nato and 50. The entire point of 556 is to more accurately engage the enemy at a further distance and cause injuries less devastating requiring 2 ormore combatants to give aid to the casualty. You know what all three of these intermediate calibers have in common?... you take a non vital hit and your wanting momma... you take one to center mass or higher your dead. I would rather do that at a distance greater then the enemy can.
I dont see our marksmanship training at the 500m line swapping to a 200y gun. There is a reason why combloc nations dumped the x39 and almost copied the 556.
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Now I 'know' the AR guys are full of BS. The chambers are cut to the same saami specs as anything else in x39. ::) Your talkin about guys that mix-n-match crap and order junk online from the cheapest vender, then slap it all to gether and wonder why it wont cycle perfectly. Ohhh... must be this crap x39 case/chamber... maybe I should go BLACKOUT baby, Yeah!
IIRC it's the mags that are the problem... the fact that x39 needs a curved mag all the way up and an AR mag is straight up through the magwell... have you seen the hideous mags they have to use?
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Oh.... so its the looks huh? I KNEW IT!!! rofl
Welp.. a Grendel mag is just as straight as a 556. :)