Author Topic: M21 N  (Read 4778 times)

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Offline RatedZ

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M21 N
« on: April 13, 2018, 02:07:14 PM »
This gun unfortunately is missing the original stock....  also it has a 2 in front of the m21 which I believe to be a re-arsenal mark for this model....  this gun I honestly don't know much about other than the usual 'trade in' story for any gun shop, ever.....   

Id love for the experts to disect this one if possible.   :)


Barrel Lug: Uncertain
Battle Sight on RSL: D
Bayonet Type: Spike
Bayonet Lug: Uncertain
Bolt Carrier: Uncertain
Gas Tube: Uncertain
Gas Block: Uncertain
Receiver Cover Takedown: Normal
Rear Sight Block: Uncertain
Serial Number Format: 7 Digits, N000278
S/N on Components: N000278
S/N on Stock: No S/N on stock
Stock Swivel: Bottom
Trigger Group Type: Early Milled
Notes: Everything matches thats stamped on the rifle, but not the stock.    It is my rifle, and as usual it was a trade in long ago from a customer.   Shoots excellent.
























































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Elizabethton, TN USA

Offline Justin Hell

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Re: M21 N
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2018, 04:35:02 PM »
Nice M21 with early features. Bummer about the stock, but that is a darn nice carbine.  thumb1

Offline Greasemonkey

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Re: M21 N
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2018, 04:35:44 PM »
I'm not no expert.....but, I think the bayonet is on backwards..  :)
I'm going to make him an offer he can't refuse......

Leave the gun, take the cannoli.

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Offline Justin Hell

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Re: M21 N
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2018, 05:31:58 PM »
I'm not no expert.....but, I think the bayonet is on backwards..  :)

Yep, he's no expert...the correct terminology is upside down.  bat1

Offline running-man

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Re: M21 N
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2018, 06:02:12 PM »
I'd say rebarreled receiver from a very early gun, scrubbed and forced into a pinned barrel/spike configuration at refurb.  They sure hacked the hell out of the front receiver lip to get it to fit into that pinned barrel stock.  Parts are a bit of a conglomeration, mostly very early (1 piece gas tube, early bolt carrier, milled gas block, lightening cut bayo lug, milled RSB, early trigger group etc.), except for the spike bayo and "D" marked RSL. think1

I take the 2 in front of the receiver marking to generally mean this is a rebuilt gun.  I saw one other M21 "N" gun with this marking long ago but chalked it up to a non-related stamp.  As the years passed it's clear the Chinese meant to stamp it like for a particular reason.  We see them pop up on obviously rebuilt letter series guns all the time. 
      

Offline Loose}{Cannon

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Re: M21 N
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2018, 06:03:36 PM »
Another great addition to the component board!    thumb1

Calling RM,....... Move please.    wink1  chuckles1

I would say there are THREE different sized #2 on that gun. 

A: The Large 2 which is in the 'M21'.  NORMAL
B: The med sized 2 you pointed out thats before the 'M21' 
C: The small sized 2 contained within the serial. NORMAL

Seeing that the '2' in question from line B above is neither consistent with the serial or the 'm21' sizes we normally see....  I would say it was added sometime after the rifle was produced.  BUT,  I'm not convinced it indicates a refurb although its possible I guess.

      
1776 will commence again if you try to take our firearms... It doesn't matter how many Lenins you get out on the street begging for them to be taken.

Offline RatedZ

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Re: M21 N
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2018, 07:03:40 PM »
You guys are awesome.   The bayo is indeed upside down.   🤪

So even though the numbers and alignment marks are very similar, you think this gun was rebarreled at some point?   I kinda figured the rsl wasnt original and the bayo was probably hanged with the stock because this one has the spike cutout for it.   

Anyone know what the stock is supposed to look like for a gun like this originally?
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Offline running-man

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Re: M21 N
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2018, 08:39:20 PM »
I think rebarreled because of the font differences in the 25's. 


The 2's are totally different.  We've found that the numbers correspond to the rough clocking of the threads on each component.  Match two numbers from 0 to 35 up and you are within 10° of each other and pretty much guaranteed to be able to align them together when torquing.  (see: SKS Barrel/Receiver Index Numbers Identified and Verified)

Original stocks on "NO" series look like this:



but this gun is quite different from the "NO"s above in font size and placement on the receiver.  Hard to say what it might have looked like originally.  dntknw1
      

Offline Loose}{Cannon

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Re: M21 N
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2018, 09:33:55 PM »
Quote
We've found that the numbers correspond to the rough clocking of the threads on each component.  Match two numbers from 0 to 35 up and you are within 10° of each other and pretty much guaranteed to be able to align them together when torquing

I dunno RM.  The whole purpose of these are so that barrels and receivers can be mated any-time any-place.  I highly doubt the two would have been made/stamped within the same month yet alone the same building. I put zero faith of differing fonts of the index numbers meaning....... anything.

Just sayin
      
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Offline running-man

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Re: M21 N
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2018, 10:33:19 PM »
True that, could be either most certainly.  At the same time it seems to me that the early guns have fonts that are for the most part the same.  It's only when you get to either later guns, or maybe later replacement parts that the fonts start changing so noticeably. 

I think the receiver's been scrubbed and that blocky 25 is as new as the bayonet.  I wish we had 25 of these to study.  ;)
      

Offline Loose}{Cannon

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Re: M21 N
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2018, 11:05:48 PM »
In my opinion, the very crude grinding notch to facilitate the pinned barrel stock wasnt done in china.

OP, is the rifle import marked?
      
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Offline Justin Hell

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Re: M21 N
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2018, 11:32:47 PM »
While there doesn't seem to be a date to nail down the M21 to a specific year...would it be possible that the N series was made around the 9m 1964 area where they switched from blade to spike?


Offline RatedZ

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Re: M21 N
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2018, 11:43:51 PM »
In my opinion, the very crude grinding notch to facilitate the pinned barrel stock wasnt done in china.

OP, is the rifle import marked?

Yes third pic from bottom.   Cja sfld mi
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Offline Loose}{Cannon

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Re: M21 N
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2018, 12:02:09 PM »
My position would be....

The crude grinding to facilitate a pinned stock was done state-side, and in conjunction the spike bayo along with it.  I would say your stock ferrule in this case would be the most telling.

Do you have a clear pic of the stock ferrule notch? 
      
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Offline Justin Hell

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Re: M21 N
« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2018, 12:47:30 PM »
It appears to be a spike ferrule from what I can see.

Offline Loose}{Cannon

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Re: M21 N
« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2018, 01:51:06 PM »
I dunno



      
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Offline Justin Hell

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Re: M21 N
« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2018, 02:18:57 PM »
heh, must have been the angle of a couple of those shots that made me see that....I stand corrected.