SKS-FILES FORUM
AK and AR => AK Family: Saiga, MAK, Vepr, WASR, Zastava, etc. => Topic started by: Gloyid on March 22, 2020, 12:03:51 AM
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Was thinking of building a new lightweight AR since I just traded mine....BUT, think I'll give an AK a go.
My question to the group is (with me being new to the ownership market of AKs) what is the best/most cost efficient way to go? Its purpose will be more of a tactical rifle with lightweight stock, lower powered optic, maybe a flashlight for inspecting noises outside the house...but I'm ignorant as you can get on the receivers. Who makes a good middle of the line quality full reciever that is relatively cost efficient and has a smooth trigger?
Should I start with a baseline Russian gun or Romanian and just swap stocks and add gear? Should I build from nothing using certain companies?
Only things I'm picky about are having a non folding stock and a good trigger really. If you're comfy with a good trigger...everything else has to be horrible to not be accurate.
I'll be using it for shoot/move drills, ready ups, reload drills...more than just plinking. Please help as all I know are ARs, bolt guns and street howitzers. Total cost between $600-$1200...depends on what my wife gets in return basically. Baking brownies as I type this..
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Near the high end of your range, a lot of people love the Arsenals. I don’t have any first hand experience with them.
https://www.atlanticfirearms.com/products/arsenal-slr-107r#
Near the low end of your range, a WASR 10. My first AK was a Romanian WASR 10 and it’s a great AK.
https://www.atlanticfirearms.com/products/cai-ak-47-wasr-10-7-62x39mm-rifle
Both have side mount rails for optics.
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I have a WASR. Will eventually have something else but I don't know what. Most of the AKs are $1500+ except for a few variants, IMO. I thought about building recently and then a "squirrel" runs in front of me and I buy something else. Anyhow while thinking of building I found Childers receivers that seem to be well respected (link below). I would do your own research though they are not the only game in town. Finding a decent parts kits is probably going to be your toughest feat. Some of this stuff seems to be worn as it was prior military surplus. Anyhow good luck.
https://www.childersguns.com
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Thanks for the info, I'll do some research on those and see which rabbit holes I can find to get lost in.
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There are Picatinny rails and other options available for mounting a light.
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I built an AR15 in x39. Shoots way better than my SKS or any AK I have fired. Way more "options" as well.
Marcus
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I'm just not keen on an AR in that caliber. Seems....awkward.
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do you want to build one or buy one?
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do you want to build one or buy one?
That's part of what I am researching. A buddy told me about Combloc AK services. They put out some really nice builds it seems. But at what cost. I'm wanting it for a fun-gun and to keep the skills sharp, so it's not going to be a beauty. Probably just plastic furniture, good functionality and good optics. Prefer to build for my first...just feels better, like my first ar10 build. But I'd probably jump on a good built one when I have the cash. Just depends.
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Here is another question, what about companies like Zastava and riley defense? Looks like I could pick one of theirs up at less cost and throw a trigger and optic on it and be done...then get a WASR, Romanian or Russian just to have (wife hates that excuse for a gun purchase, "just to have one")
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i have a wasr 10/63 and npap, both alot of fun. both are also entry type and serve all my need and desire. don't have to spend a ton to get one of them either. building one sounds interesting, but above my pay-grade.
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Here is another question, what about companies like Zastava and riley defense? Looks like I could pick one of theirs up at less cost and throw a trigger and optic on it and be done...then get a WASR, Romanian or Russian just to have (wife hates that excuse for a gun purchase, "just to have one")
I don't know anything about Riley Defense. My assumption is that Zastava Arms USA products will be as good or nearly as good as the original Zastava in Serbia AKs. They are about $70-100 more than a WASR-10, so still on the low end of your range at ~$800.
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I'm doing more researching and seeing that NPAPs are not going to go smoothly with my intended purpose. Seems there aren't a lot of aftermarket parts for them out there as the market is flooded with WASR stuff. Still trying to learn all this WASR/NPAP/PAP/AKM......stuff
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Are you going to build from a fully machined and riveted receiver or are you a fairly skilled machinest with solid riveting skills? (blank receiver vs. receiver with trunnions already riveted in) The rivets on the stamped receiver will be one of the biggest challenges from that starting point. A milled receiver is a different type of build with the biggest challenge being the barrel pressing, which has to be done on both milled and stamped receivers. Getting a quality surplus de-milled kit with the barrel already populated with the FSB, GB, and RSB would be a plus for not having to make sure of no problems with sight cant, etc.
Also, finding quality kits with the original barrels is a "bit" harder to do but worth it. I have no idea for recommendations on aftermarket, American-made barrels. I was fortunate enough to find all my kits a long time ago with the original barrels still intact.
When you're looking through kits, some of the older Hungarian kits came with threaded barrels. You may want to avoid that because it restricts you to milled-threaded receivers only, which you then get into barrel "timing" issues. I'm sure you're already familiar with these characteristics.
Polish PMKMS kits were excellent kits. Russian kits of any usable quality/ matching SN's are pretty much non-existant nowadays. ROMY G kits were fairly plentiful for a while. I haven't seen any for a while, but there were some nice Hungarian SA-85M kits going around in nice condition. Make sure your kit is as complete as possible. All-matching SN's are a plus. (Original barrels with original matching front trunnions pretty much guarantees a good fit with close to correct headspace on first try assembly) As always, be sure to check your headspace.
If you're going the stamped receiver route, there are some companies that offer matching your kit's SN with the receiver and also using the kit's country of origin markings. (Hungarian, Polish, Romanian, etc.) If you find a nice matching kit, it's worth the extra money to make the whole rifle matching. (IMO)
Kits will range from virgin kits, like this Bulgarian AK-MUS 7.62x39 kit...
(https://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b436/firstchoice14/Parts%20Kits/Bulgarian%20Virgin%20762x39%20Parts%20Kit/K-VAR%20AK-47MUS%20Parts%20Set%20762x39%20Milled%20Receivers/SAM_4303_zpsf36b4053.jpg)
To the surplus demilled kits like this Hungarian AMMS kit with the barrel already populated...
(https://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b436/firstchoice14/Parts%20Kits/Hungarian%20AMMS%20762x39%20Underfolder%20Parts%20Kit/SAM_4705_zps466d5cf4.jpg)
And the Polish PMKMS kit (like-new condition)...
(https://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b436/firstchoice14/Parts%20Kits/Polish%20PMKMS%20762x39%20AK-47%20UF%20Parts%20Kit--Like%20New/SAM_4719_zps2c0efa4f.jpg)
To the Polish PMKMS kit (used-VG Condition)...
(https://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b436/firstchoice14/Parts%20Kits/Polish%20PMKMS%20762x39%20AK-47%20Underfolder%20Parts%20Kit/SAM_4710_zps176f69d4.jpg)
Good luck! Looking forward to seeing your progress!
firstchoice
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Here's another option for you, although it has the shorter sight radius. https://www.atlanticfirearms.com/products/ak-47-rifle-m10-762-diy
That way you can choose your own muzzle device and furniture.
Full on WASR for $720: https://www.atlanticsportingoutlet.com/cent-gp-wasr-10-7-62x39-1-30rd-military
Building an AK requires a significant investment in tooling which makes it really pricey for a one-off build, and the learning curve is pretty steep.
Shame you didn't have this question a few weeks ago though as MidwayUSA just blew out a BUNCH of Romanian kits for $250 or so.
BTW trigger swaps are EASY to do if you're not happy with the trigger you get. The WASR comes with the Century RAK trigger which by all accounts is pretty good. I would recommend a trigger pin retainer plate if you swap out the trigger as it makes reinstallation a breeze.
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Yeah, I probably wont do a full out build from scratch. Most likely will start with a strong base model and replace certain pieces I can handle for the first go around.
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Yeah, I probably wont do a full out build from scratch. Most likely will start with a strong base model and replace certain pieces I can handle for the first go around.
Gloyid,
I think that is 100% your best option.
Here's a tip: Don't do anything permanent, and don't get rid of your original equipment. You may find that you'll want to go back to an all stock rifle one day.
Like when you buy your second or third, and it's all decked out already.
BUT! Buy that rifle quickly. Might not be many around in the near future.
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Second post just to say this:
BUY MAGS!!!!!
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Yeah, learning from my SKS about the furniture now. I've always known to keep all OE parts...ya never know. Previous owners took away the original stock and mag and now it's not worth anything near what it could be (KSI Para Hunter).
Most are sold out everywhere, I like to buy from face to face people more though...less tracking by big brother.
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I like to buy from face to face people more though...less tracking by big brother.
I hear you, brother.
I'm the same way.
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Now I'm pissed cause I just found a beautiful Egyptian with dark red furniture on armslist...but ibdidnt see the listing was removed up top...did find a century already set up how I like for $700 though...what are y'alls thoughts??
(https://i.ibb.co/Sw8Wy7G/20200323-192519.jpg) (https://ibb.co/8gpTs4t)
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UPDATE!!: Wife may soon agree to this purchase. I had to promise no new guns for a while, 5 back rubs and a washer and driver. (We needed the washer and drier anyways since I gave ours to my grandparents to help them out) Tempted to buy her a clothesline....
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A Century house brand AK?! Just say no!!!
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What's wrong with them? I asked about zastava and century and nobody had much to say. I did learn no to zastava NPAP since I'll be wanting to swap furniture and make it more modern.
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How about an early WASR-10 for $650?
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Also found a nice norinco NHM-91, not sure if akm style or rock, waiting on response from seller.
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What's wrong with them? I asked about zastava and century and nobody had much to say. I did learn no to zastava NPAP since I'll be wanting to swap furniture and make it more modern.
Avoid the RAS47 and C39s. Look up AK Operators Union reviews on them.
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How about an early WASR-10 for $650?
Typically good to go but it depends on how early. Some had canted sights but that was I want to say, pre-2013, roughly. Mine is a 2015 and it rocks. thumb1
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Awesome, thanks for the advice.
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Also found a nice norinco NHM-91, not sure if akm style or rock, waiting on response from seller.
Should be good to go. I'm not sure about being able to modify it and furniture options. I suspect that is limited.
It's a heavy build RPK-ish rifle. Shorter barrel than an RPK (longer than an AK) but the same heavier gauge, 1.5mm, stamped steel receiver as the RPK vs. the 1.0mm steel of typical AKM clones.
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Dont know why my "smart phone" keeps changing acronyms to make me look stupid. Swapped drier for driver earlier and now rock for rpk...technology has surpassed itself. The guy with the norinco wouldn't drop from $900. It already had tan synthetic furniture and all original furniture with it...dont blame him. He told me it was an akm that goes to the gym a lot...I understood where he was going with that. HEAVIER. I've got 3 messages out to sellers with WASR-10s and one romanian. Well see who bites.
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I've got messages out on multiple WASRs between $700-$850. Found a real nice Hungarian Sa85m but he's at $1,100 and kind of far away. Seems like a fair price from the research on Hungarian models. It's a tactical one. I've only got max $800 to spend...might have to offer extra trades like power tools or new 5.56 mags.
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I'll just throw an option out there.. :) only because I'm a huge fan of them. I have quite a few AKs.. but my love goes to the Czech Vz.58. Same high capacity, a pound lighter and less felt recoil, and a tad more accurate in my experience. It has a gas system like an SKS, fully machined receiver and lighter magazines to boot. I have both the CzechPoint version and the CAI Vz2008, both operate flawless.
It's just a viable option given prices on things have gone stupid and places are sold out.
CzechPoint Vz.58
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/4v8jv9ihzcnrga3/HPIM0229_zps19303524.jpg?dl=0)
Exploded view of my CAI Vz.2008 with one of my MAK90s
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/yg1y5j12iqxfjg0/SAM_1101_zps88726044.jpg?dl=0)
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Everywhere is sold out, it's crazy. Cant even indulge myself. I prefer private anyways. Hoping the guy with the Hungarian is willing to barter some. Nobody is responding to my emails, only one responded saying it was long gone...then why you still got it posted? Armslist changed their search filters and it's a pain now. Scrolling through a bunch of 10/22s and lever guns when you just want to see AKs is frustrating enough, especially when there are over 1,000 guns to sort through.
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I have a WASR and I'm anxiously awaiting my newly acquired Czechpoint Vz58! dance2
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I have a WASR and I'm anxiously awaiting my newly acquired Czechpoint Vz58! dance2
I have a WASR 2.. the 5.45x39... I had to be different.. :)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/ozsomn29hwxun7u/SAM_2613_zpsdhg8a2jd.jpg?dl=0)
NHM91 and my PSL, the AK for when the regular just aint got the gusto...... have a few others.. :)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/t3xjwgqzaj2z89z/SAM_2165_zpsr7niuiop.jpg?dl=0)
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Here are three of mine.
Top to bottom:
1. 2015 WASR-10, Century import. Purchased from Atlantic Firearms. Later dressed out in a Romanian PM.63 (Pistol Mitralieră) configuration.
2. 1967 PM.65 barreled action (Morrissey receiver) with most original parts other than trigger group and furniture, purchased from Atlantic Firearms.
3. 1994 MAK-90 Sporter. Local acquisition from a pawn shop. “Original” thumbhole stock swapped out by the previous owner. I like it better this way.
(https://i.ibb.co/Dz16HMV/F499-A92-C-1067-4482-9703-6108699241-D6.jpg) (https://ibb.co/djf3wpW)
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Saiga 12 and 410
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/olhnggllg7wau3x/HPIM0001_zpsvir7b2sw.jpg?dl=0)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/fc5fm2qb3wtoi79/SAM_1140_zpsaihorn4c.jpg?dl=0)
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Yall are jerks, I cant even find one close by and yall are covering your floors with them. Hahaha
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Yall are jerks, I cant even find one close by and yall are covering your floors with them. Hahaha
rofl Sorry about that. These are all pre-COVID-19 purchases ;)
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Well...I've been researching....I want an Egyptian or Hungarian...but, I dont want to goof up one when I get it. So....I've decided after watching many reviews and reading a lot of them to start with a PSA. They seem to really have stuff figured out and I think it will make a good fun gun. Then I'll pick up an Egyptian or Hungarian later and not fool with any of it. I dont just want to shoot, I need to get back into training. I can grab a PSA and mount and dot sight for the same as buying authentic. That will give me something to run and gun with, and one to start the actual collection next time...and a good one, not just a basic starter. Had a guy offer me an sa85 galil clone...it was cool lookin, but not what I was looking for. The psa will have the look/feel/quality for me to get used to while shooting.
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Just keep those feelers out and be ready to buy when the right deal pops up.
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Dang Egyptian was up in Atlanta...almost had it for $850 I think it was. But it was removed while viewing it...beautiful dark red furniture. Was gonna try to dicker down to $800.