GB Listings for March, 2017 - Commercial Chinese

[running-man]

Here's the commercial list from the latest month. Market doesn't really change all that much on these.

• # sold: 28
• Lowest Sale Price: $330.00
• Avg. Sale Price: $536.57
• Highest Sale Price: $925.00
• Avg. Price AK Magazine Variants: $597.31
• Avg. Price Paratrooper Variants: $453.00

Please let me know any feedback (good or bad) to these.

If you have an objection or observation to add to anything I've listed, by all means call it out.  Let's look at it long and hard (I only look at each listing for a minute or two at most) and maybe everyone can learn a thing or two! 

-RM

Item Link | Description | # Bids | Final Price | Commercial Chinese Type | Commercial Chinese Condition | Current Condition | RM's Notes

• 626057573 | Norinco SKS Arsenal 26 Type 56 7.62x39 Semi Auto | 10 | $375.00  | K-Sports Hunter  | As-Imported | Good | Nice gun!!
• 629405305 | Norinco SKS Paratrooper 7.62x39 | 15 | $505.00  | K-Sports Paratrooper Hunter  | Bubba | Good |
• 633842528 | Norinco Paratrooper SKS 7.62x39, CA No Bayonet Lug | 1 | $400.00  | NA Cowboy's Companion (Mid) | Bubba | Fair | Damn shame….
• 625036470 | Poly Tech Chinese SKS Rifle ParaTrooper | 1 | $600.00  | Paratrooper | As-Imported | Good |
• 631543904 | Chinese Norinco SKS Paratrooper SKS Paratrooper w/ sling | 12 | $505.00  | Paratrooper | As-Imported | Good |
• 628881427 | Norinco Chinese Paratrooper SKS 7.62 $.01 Start NR | 20 | $500.00  | Paratrooper | As-Imported | Good |
• 628942915 | SKS Paratrooper carbine | 1 | $399.00  | Paratrooper | As-Imported | Good | /106\ paratroopers are usually NA guns...
• 629111900 | CHINESE NORINCO SKS PARATROOPER 7.62x39 | 15 | $330.00  | Paratrooper | As-Imported | Good |
• 632145349 | Chinese Paratrooper SKS factory 26 7.62x39 | 3 | $505.00  | Paratrooper | Bubba | Good |
• 631163849 | Chinese SKS 7.62x39 rifle | 3 | $410.00  | Paratrooper | Bubba | Good |
• 630460465 | 1957 Norinco Chinese SKS Rifle Type 56 7.62x39 C&R | 17 | $375.00  | Paratrooper | Uncertain | Good | I dig the red stock.  I don't dig that the seller is calling a chopped year 11 /26\ gun a 1957 C&R, c'mon man!
• 629302719 | NORINCO SKS 30, SKS-D, ALL MATCHING, USES AK47 MAG | 25 | $925.00  | SKS 30 | As-Imported | Good |
• 629682231 | SKS Norinco SKS-D AK47 75rd Drum | 1 | $625.00  | SKS 30 | Bubba | Good |
• 629584199 | NORINCO SKS TYPE 63 M,D,AK47,RUSSIAN,CHINESE,YUGO | 2 | $750.00  | SKS 63 | As-Imported | Excellent | Wow.
• 631613750 | Norinco SKS Type 63 7.62x39 AK Mags 7.62 | 7 | $478.88  | SKS 63 | As-Imported | Very Good |
• 628501759 | Norinco Paratrooper SKS-M Carbine Rifle Ak-Mags | 34 | $712.00  | SKS M | As-Imported | Good |
• 631356246 | Norinco SKS M ParaTrooper 7.62x39 -Great Condition | 2 | $705.00  | SKS M | As-Imported | Good |
• 629752489 | Chinese Norinco SKS-M 7.62x39 Takes AK-47 Mags D | 1 | $695.00  | SKS M | As-Imported | Very Good |
• 625027897 | Norinco SKS 7.62 x39 | 12 | $460.00  | SKS M | As-Imported | Good |
• 623180352 | Norinco SKS-M | 7 | $700.00  | SKS M | Uncertain | Uncertain | Photos gone.
• 628055013 | Norinco SKS Type NR USES AK47 Mags RARE! NOT D M | 11 | $505.00  | SKS NR | As-Imported | Good | Beautiful gun.
• 630940694 | Norinco SKS Sporter - Rare Factory AK magwell | 7 | $645.00  | SKS Sporter | As-Imported | Uncertain | Rare eh?  Horsetrash photos.
• 629254982 | Norinco SKS para takes AK mags | 20 | $600.00  | SKS Sporter | As-Imported | Good |
• 628686200 | Norinco SKS Sporter 7.62x39 Rifle Uses AK-47 Mags ATI Folding Stock & Bipod Chinese SKS | 1 | $499.00  | SKS Sporter | Bubba | Fair |
• 627949987 | SKS Sporter | 3 | $460.00  | SKS Sporter | Bubba | Good |
• 626390463 | * Norinco SKS Sporter 7.62x39 Rifle * AK-47 mags | 17 | $405.00  | SKS Sporter | Bubba | Fair |
• 625215611 | NORINCO SKS PARATROOPER 7.62x39 TAKES STANDARD AK | 16 | $392.00  | SKS Sporter | Bubba | Good | Wow, an AK mag SKS for less than $400?
• 629057626 | PRE-BAN SKS 56 MATCHING #'s semi automatic | 21 | $563.00  | Uncertain | Bubba | Fair | Likely an M?

[Power Surge]

633842528 | Norinco Paratrooper SKS 7.62x39, CA No Bayonet Lug | 1 | $400.00  | NA Cowboy's Companion (Mid) | Bubba | Fair | Damn shame….

Not sure what you're seeing there RM, but that's a PERFECT example of an early CC, one of the best I've seen so far.

629111900 | CHINESE NORINCO SKS PARATROOPER 7.62x39 | 15 | $330.00  | Paratrooper | As-Imported | Good |

RM, did you get a good look at this import stamp?? Looks like it says the arsenal city   

631613750 | Norinco SKS Type 63 7.62x39 AK Mags 7.62 | 7 | $478.88  | SKS 63 | As-Imported | Very Good |

No sale on this one ^^

629057626 | PRE-BAN SKS 56 MATCHING #'s semi automatic | 21 | $563.00  | Uncertain | Bubba | Fair | Likely an M?

That's a very sad Type 63, missing it's beautiful thumbhole stock 

[running-man]

633842528 | Norinco Paratrooper SKS 7.62x39, CA No Bayonet Lug | 1 | $400.00  | NA Cowboy's Companion (Mid) | Bubba | Fair | Damn shame….

Not sure what you're seeing there RM, but that's a PERFECT example of an early CC, one of the best I've seen so far.

I guess I was more looking at the missing rail and how they tore up that front rivet hole so badly removing it.  Would have been nice to see the gun in as-imported condition, other than the missing rail it's quite nice.

I'm having a tough time with guns that didn't sell these days. GB's subtle change in color scheme has really thrown me as of late.

The Trident xinsindai stamp is a bit different than the 2 line one I've seen before.  I've always assumed that indicated exporter (like Norinco, Polytech, CGA, etc.) rather than arsenal like the Clayco M8's describe (Shan Yi Ji).  Who knows though, you might be on to something!

[Loose}{Cannon]

I don't do commercial, but when I do view these..  I get excited to see the attention to detail. 

[firstchoice]

jjjxlr8 has put up some nice Commercial SKS many times. He's getting decent prices for the SKS-30's, as does padams! (That $1300.00 SKS-30 sale still makes me smile  )

629302719 | NORINCO SKS 30, SKS-D, ALL MATCHING, USES AK47 MAG | 25 | $925.00  | SKS 30 | As-Imported | Good |
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/629302719

And then there's this guy. "all you need to put it back to original is a stock". Yeah, the SKS-30 stock, with all hardware, and a SKS-30 bayonet. Two unicorn farts, and you're good.    Why must they kill off the good ones? 

629682231 | SKS Norinco SKS-D AK47 75rd Drum | 1 | $625.00  | SKS 30 | Bubba | Good |
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/629682231


I couldn't understand the range in price between the two Model 63's. This one is in VG Cond. and has the original box with some of the original accessories.

629584199 | NORINCO SKS TYPE 63 M,D,AK47,RUSSIAN,CHINESE,YUGO | 2 | $750.00  | SKS 63 | As-Imported | Excellent | Wow.
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/629584199

And this one is in VG cond., with one (unknown style) magazine, but with no box or accessories. Does a box and 2-5rd. mags constitute a $271.12 price difference? Not in my opinion.

631613750 | Norinco SKS Type 63 7.62x39 AK Mags 7.62 | 7 | $478.88  | SKS 63 | As-Imported | Very Good |
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/631613750

At one point, I had all the Chinese (factory-made in China) SKS AK-magazine conversions, except the Model 93. I remember, either it was the Model 63 or the NR that had the most ergonomic and comfortable thumbhole stock of all that style stock. (for my hand, of course) My least favorite was the MC-5D because of their retention/use of the standard-style mag. catch. (dropping mags during live fire)

Power Surge, are we calling the China Sports imported "D" a SKS-30, as well? I didn't know if you had confirmed that, or not?  Same rifles, so they should be called the same. Wish we knew for sure if the Beta Arms "SKS-30" designation was their inventory name/designation, for them only, or an across the board recognized  designation for importers? Just wanted to clarify for future use. Thanks.

firstchoice

[Greasemonkey]

I couldn't understand the range in price between the two Model 63's. This one is in VG Cond. and has the original box with some of the original accessories.

629584199 | NORINCO SKS TYPE 63 M,D,AK47,RUSSIAN,CHINESE,YUGO | 2 | $750.00  | SKS 63 | As-Imported | Excellent | Wow.
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/629584199

And this one is in VG cond., with one (unknown style) magazine, but with no box or accessories. Does a box and 2-5rd. mags constitute a $271.12 price difference? Not in my opinion.

631613750 | Norinco SKS Type 63 7.62x39 AK Mags 7.62 | 7 | $478.88  | SKS 63 | As-Imported | Very Good |
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/631613750

That notable difference is not just on SKSs, I've seen MAK-90s carry about that same premium, sometimes more in a box, wrapped in the plastic bag with all the goodies vs not in the box with no goodies. One boxed NHM-91 carried a $700 premium.

[Power Surge]

Power Surge, are we calling the China Sports imported "D" a SKS-30, as well? I didn't know if you had confirmed that, or not?  Same rifles, so they should be called the same. Wish we knew for sure if the Beta Arms "SKS-30" designation was their inventory name/designation, for them only, or an across the board recognized  designation for importers? Just wanted to clarify for future use. Thanks.

firstchoice

This is just my opinion, so you can take it for what it's worth....

I have seen zero evidence that these rifles were ever called an "SKS-D" in any official manner (aside from some of the newer production Canadian models 25 years after the originals being mis-labeled). We have seen ads calling them "SKS-30", and we have seen boxes labeled "SKS-30". And about those box labels.... all the other models have their box labels with the corresponding model names as we know them. Plus this was the only new commercial SKS that came with 30 round magazines.

[firstchoice]

I couldn't understand the range in price between the two Model 63's. This one is in VG Cond. and has the original box with some of the original accessories.

629584199 | NORINCO SKS TYPE 63 M,D,AK47,RUSSIAN,CHINESE,YUGO | 2 | $750.00  | SKS 63 | As-Imported | Excellent | Wow.
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/629584199

And this one is in VG cond., with one (unknown style) magazine, but with no box or accessories. Does a box and 2-5rd. mags constitute a $271.12 price difference? Not in my opinion.

631613750 | Norinco SKS Type 63 7.62x39 AK Mags 7.62 | 7 | $478.88  | SKS 63 | As-Imported | Very Good |
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/631613750

That notable difference is not just on SKSs, I've seen MAK-90s carry about that same premium, sometimes more in a box, wrapped in the plastic bag with all the goodies vs not in the box with no goodies. One boxed NHM-91 carried a $700 premium.

I didn't complete my thought in that post. My thinking is that the SKS-63 in that condition is probably good in the $700-$750 range. I couldn't understand why the one without the box commanded such a lower premium. $50-$100 less w/o the box and accessories, (for this particular set of accessories), I can see. Sets with 3 mags, a drum magazine, bipod, etc., would make a difference.  I see "like-new", "as-new", "looks-new"  M's in the box going close, or around $800. I suppose a lot of it is just getting the right buyer and the right auction, together, at the right time.

I haven't kept up on the MAK-90 pricing. It would just be a guess on my part, but it seems like there were a lot more MAK-90's brought in than the M's and other AK-mag conversions from China? So many of the MAK-90's were "de-banned", it's hard to keep track of them. I still like the Chinese AK's smooth cycling, though.

Power Surge, are we calling the China Sports imported "D" a SKS-30, as well? I didn't know if you had confirmed that, or not?  Same rifles, so they should be called the same. Wish we knew for sure if the Beta Arms "SKS-30" designation was their inventory name/designation, for them only, or an across the board recognized  designation for importers? Just wanted to clarify for future use. Thanks.

firstchoice

This is just my opinion, so you can take it for what it's worth....

I have seen zero evidence that these rifles were ever called an "SKS-D" in any official manner (aside from some of the newer production Canadian models 25 years after the originals being mis-labeled). We have seen ads calling them "SKS-30", and we have seen boxes labeled "SKS-30". And about those box labels.... all the other models have their box labels with the corresponding model names as we know them. Plus this was the only new commercial SKS that came with 30 round magazines.

I'm of the same opinion as you, PS. I just haven't seen a boxed set with a China Sports "SKS-30". Did China Sports even distribute the SKS-30 like that? I have the nicely boxed China Sports SKS, the China Sports NHM-90, and the China Sports NHM-91. But I have yet to see the China Sports SKS-30 in the same boxed set like the Beta Arms importer distributed. (That's something I haven't thought about yet, were they boxed up in "sets" like that in China? Or were they done over here by the importer?)  I've noticed that the China Sports import marks (on the SKS-30's) are not as symmetrical or evenly defined as the Beta Arms, so they may not have been as intent on "dressing them up" as the rest. Dunno. Time and data gathering will tell, I suppose. 

The one thing that China Sports did distribute with their SKS-30, that Beta Arms did not, was an importer-marked Owners Manual. I don't know how Beta Arms overlooked that one. Dang, didn't they think that in 30 years, we'd be looking for that type of stuff?     

firstchoice

[Power Surge]

The one thing that China Sports did distribute with their SKS-30, that Beta Arms did not, was an importer-marked Owners Manual. I don't know how Beta Arms overlooked that one. Dang, didn't they think that in 30 years, we'd be looking for that type of stuff?     

firstchoice

I try to buy any commercial owners manual when I find them, hoping for more clues to questions like this. I have the China Sports manual for the SKS-30/SKS-D. On the manual, it is referred to as "China Sports SKS Semi-Automatic Sporting Rifle". There is no other designation.

But...China Sports used that description for ALL their manuals, even stock military configuration models. For other commercial models, they use that description, but with a model name before it. For example, the manual for the NR says "China Sports SKS NR 7.62x39 Semi-Automatic Sporting Rifle".

I think the problem with this particular model, is that it was the first new production SKS released in 1988, so having an "official name" may not have been a big deal. However, China Sports ALSO offered the SKS 63 in 88, which was an SKS-30 with the bay lug shaved down and different stock. I haven't seen an SKS 63 manual yet, so I'd be curious to see what it says. EDIT: I just did a google search and found a pic of one, and it says "model 63 7.62x39 Semi-automatic Sporting Rifle".

Another interesting tid bit here....  The China Sports SKS 63, and the Beta Arms SKS-30, both use the "88 XXXXX" serial designation. Both start at 88 00000. Beta Arms SKS-30 goes from 88 0000 to about 88 066XX. China Sports SKS 63 goes from 88 00000 to about 88 080XX.

That means that in 1988, there were about 6000 commercial SKSs being imported with the same two serial numbers.