The "Canadian Para"... rediscovered?

[fenceline]

Very interesting. That would make sense, since it has 9mil era attributes. Just doesn't look like 9 mil font though.

I think look at it as a 9X prefixed gun, not a 9 mil /26\.  I'd bet it's a 94 or 95 that didn't make it into the states before the ban was implemented.

Something like:


But with different placement maybe?  Just a guess...

That is the exact font and format right there.  Just not in the same place as that picture.

I think this gun was also rebarreled. The barrel lug has a vertical pin inserted from the top down on the left side and as mentioned earlier is shorter in appearance.

Given the ghosted serial number, barrel and US import ban time lines this may very well have been a commercial gun that was built twice. Once for the US market then a second time for the Canadian market.

[Justin Hell]

Ok, the serial is neat and all....but can we get back to that barrel lug?

What is going on there? Aside from being strange looking, are those two vertical pins on either side of it?  Could that be some sort of a pinned barrel to threaded receiver adapter? 

The trigger group is milled, odd for the time frame as is the lightening cut FSB. The stock looks to be refinished with something over the existing ruby red finish typical of late /26\ stocks...with the inverted takedown.  The parts are from all over the place, I wouldn't be surprised if some of this is scrubbed Russian stuff if these indeed were assembled in Canada. If they are 100% Chinese parts, this gun spans the majority of Chinese production.

I wonder if these were possibly a concept developed along the way towards a 'short by design' concept that evolved into the short gas system for the para length guns...if it is a 94ish import it fits the time frame.

That barrel lug really deserves some more attention...and pics please.

[running-man]

That is the exact font and format right there.  Just not in the same place as that picture.

I think this gun was also rebarreled. The barrel lug has a vertical pin inserted from the top down on the left side and as mentioned earlier is shorter in appearance.

Given the ghosted serial number, barrel and US import ban time lines this may very well have been a commercial gun that was built twice. Once for the US market then a second time for the Canadian market.

Very neat!    Those are one of the only stock Chinese type 56s I could remember that were engraved/etched instead of stamped. 

The rebarrel is pretty interesting too.  The barrel lug looks like it was turned down on the outside somewhat and I thought I could see an out of place tick mark, but I just chalked that up to an artifact of the photo.  It could be that they milled the threads off the barrel and press fit it into this receiver with a pin to stabilize it.  They could have also threaded it in as normal but it had to be clocked much differently to headspace properly.  That pin is definitely there for a reason though!   

I remember Murray seeing one of these many moons ago when he was doing a neck & throat for a customer, but I don't remember what the verdict was when he finally got the barrel off.  Let me see if I can find that thread...

[Greasemonkey]

I think this gun was also rebarreled. The barrel lug has a vertical pin inserted from the top down on the left side and as mentioned earlier is shorter in appearance.

Given the ghosted serial number, barrel and US import ban time lines this may very well have been a commercial gun that was built twice. Once for the US market then a second time for the Canadian market.

Yes and no...
I might be wrong...but most all of the pinned barrels here in the states are pinned on the bottom, much like an Ak. The pin on the left side of the barrel going top to bottom is odd. There might be some pinned like that one here.....but the overwhelming majority are pinned on the bottom of the barrel.

Now...is it at all possible that it was built for Canada, there was some law there changed before it's import..requiring the Chinese or the importer there to rework it.

[fenceline]

No changes in the law. But if it was a 16.5 barrel it would have been an sbr here (restricted).  The 18.75 barrel gets over the 18.5 inch minimum for Non Restricted.

Will take some pics tonight of the lug and pin.

[Justin Hell]

Could they be unpara'd paras?  Rebarreled since they wouldn't fit Canadian law, but already cut short for the US market and just, sitting there?

The barrels could have been replaced with as short as they could go, since they already had to take it apart...why not take advantage of the obvious desire for a shorter SKS and just rebuild them a little differently?  It would be interesting to see one like this with it's original bayonet, to see if they perhaps were a little too short for the groove in the stock...or if they were ground to fit.  Too short might indicate a rebuilt US rebuild...it would still reach the stock retainer, and go into the groove a little, but leave a gap in the stock groove.

Is there a similar type of barrel for a different gun that could have been modified for the SKS?  Would a potential AKM market have been possible if the barrels were longer? It seems as if pinning a hi cap mag is not really an issue....is the AK lack up there simply because of barrel length? If there were folks in China trying to build a Canadian friendly AKM, Something akin to that AK/SKS Polytech monstrosity that recently appeared on GB.....barrels like this could have been available already....

I would like to see several of these and see if they are a mix and match of various guns, like many paratroopers were in the first place, early blade here, late pinned there...etc.  If they were a pinned receiver, perhaps the replacement barrels would just go right in, no sweat...but the threaded barrel receivers needed that funky pinnned/threaded thing we see here.

I live close enough to Canada, it kills me that I cannot go up for a mini vacation just to hit the gun shops (and tire shops) to see what I can see. I nearly invaded once...but opted to get back on the cruise ship...Stupid hindsight.

[Greasemonkey]

There is or was a 18.5 or 18 something inch American import according to the Surge...  http://chinesesks.weebly.com/18-inch-barrel.html

Little if any info I can find on it.. must really be an oddity here. Maybe he has more on it..

[running-man]

XXX and I talked at length on that 18" gun in the commercial guide.  I wasn't going to include it in the survey, but Joe convinced me to do so.  He did say that he had never handled one in person and that they are rare as hen's teeth.   

Justin, I believe AK's are disallowed up north based on them being AKs by design and designation, not based on any individual feature such as barrel length.  This is why they can get Type 81s and VZ58s (not AKs), but not an AK from any nationality or even new production Veprs or Saigas.

[Power Surge]

One of the cast receiver SKS variations, was a lugged barrel with threads machined off, pressed into the receiver, and retained with two vertical pins. Looks like the same setup here.

[Greasemonkey]

Justin, I believe AK's are disallowed up north based on them being AKs by design and designation, not based on any individual feature such as barrel length.  This is why they can get Type 81s and VZ58s (not AKs), but not an AK from any nationality or even new production Veprs or Saigas.

Thats how I understand it.. an Ak is an Ak and forbidden... the funny thing with the Vz 58/Vz2008 that is here in the states, according to their law is a SBR, the Vz2008 by CAI has a Green River 16.5 incher measured with the Ak style brake removed, the CzechPoint Vz, while it is a factory Cz made barrel, it actually measures 15.4 inches, it has an adapter/muzzle extension welded on the muzzle just to skirt by with a 16.5 inch for importation into the states..  Their Vz 58/2008 equal from what I've seen would be a CZ 858 or the CZH 2003 Sport in both a longer barrel or the shorter version for those who can or want too choose the SBR route, built as a slightly different variation that as far as I know, even the longer 18+ inch barrel was not even available here.

[newchi]

. an Ak is an Ak and forbidden...

there's a magical Kalashnikov derivative designation that covers all sorts of things the rcmp doesn't want us to have.  There is some debate as to whether the people deciding this just spin a wheel or something.
All i know is i cant have an SVD to go with my SVT

[fenceline]

AKs are prohibited. Only exceptions are the valet m78 and valet hunter. The rest are prohibited like they do in New York and such.

Short barrels are restricted. I can own them but can only shoot them at govt approved ranges and they have to be registered. Any semi auto with a barrel less than 18.5 inches is restricted.

Gas system on this gun is normal length. Not shortened. I would guess if a swap was done the whole barrel assembly was done.

The rumour I'm getting from the rescuer is that it was diverted from California. Not sure where he got that info. Maybe here haha.

[fenceline]

Vz58 and cz858 up here have longer barrels to get around our version of the sbr rule. 18.5+

They look like the vz58pi versions.

[fenceline]

Can anyone show me where I can find more info on the last of the commercial imports sharing similar laser etched serial numbers?

Additional photos... bayonet inlet and left, right and bottom of barrel lug.

[running-man]

Can anyone show me where I can find more info on the last of the commercial imports sharing similar laser etched serial numbers?

I don't know that anything like that exists man.  We certainly haven't been keeping track of them here.  I typically toss the 88-94 guns right out the window when it comes to cataloguing them.  There are a ton of them, every single one of them is different, and I don't find them all that useful for learning what the Chinese actually did when the gun was originally built.  PS would know if any of the upgraded commercial variants had etching/engraving like that.  The only one I can think of is maybe the Polytech Hunter, though it had a far different font, in fact the font is a bit reminiscent of the new "SKS 7.63x39 Made in China & S/N" text that your gun sports. 

Neat photos.  That barrel pin is bizarro, I can't quite figure out what it's meant to pin, the male threads are supposed to be on the barrel unless this one was  reamed out and some kind of a short threaded adapter collar was threaded into the barrel and used to press the barrel to the receiver.  Bizarro world there...

[fenceline]

I just meant the pic of the gun with a similar serial number above. It would seem like that laser etching would be easy to associate to an importer or shop dealing with specific import batches for the commercial guns.

Might actually help link thi's one somewhere stateside.

[Justin Hell]

That looks just like a pinned barrel jammed into a trimmed down and reamed short lug....and at least you know the lug is original to the receiver...reaming it out and drilling and pinning the barrel into the lug makes sense.

What else would you do with a pile of pinned barrels and a pile of threaded receivers? 
Make them into guns, somehow. 

[running-man]

That looks just like a pinned barrel jammed into a trimmed down and reamed short lug....and at least you know the lug is original to the receiver...reaming it out and drilling and pinning the barrel into the lug makes sense.

What else would you do with a pile of pinned barrels and a pile of threaded receivers? 
Make them into guns, somehow.

Ahh, now the light bulb goes on.  I didn't notice the different color bluing in the metal from the lug to the barrel.  That would be why they needed the pin.

Thanks Justin!   

[fenceline]

Intriguing.

[Power Surge]

But the lug is part of the barrel. So that means they had to cut the lug/threaded portion off an existing barrel, scrap the barrel, and then machine the lug to accept a pinned barrel.

Seems like an awful lot of work. They must have had a bunch of short lug barreled receivers laying around from decades ago with bad barrels to go through that much trouble turning them into a new gun.