SKS-FILES FORUM

SKS Carbines => Unaltered SKS Rifles => Yugoslavian SKS => Topic started by: Greasemonkey on June 15, 2015, 11:58:19 AM

Title: M59 Yugoslavian SKS
Post by: Greasemonkey on June 15, 2015, 11:58:19 AM
Yugoslavian M59
This post will be updated and populated with information as time moves forward.

(http://sks-files.com/Pictures/Yugoslavian/FAQ/SAM_1590.jpg)

In the realm of SKSs, the M59 is another uncommon variant, little more common over all than the Albanian. When production of them is compared to say the M59/66, they are alot less common. These were manufactured at the Zastava  factory, also commonly seen as Zastava FRY, the FRY standing for Federal Republic of Yugoslavia. The Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, which pre-dates the Yugoslavian SKS variants was Serbia and Montenegro, a name used from 1992 to 2006 to show their established federation. Due to the breakup of Yugoslavia, the history of the nation is full of border swaps and conflict. The nation formally known as Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, or the SFRY actually manufactured these rifles.

Even after national disruptions, conflicts and government changes, the Zastava Factory or Preduzece 44 plant, also known as the Zavod Crevena Zastava or Red Banner Works. and it's subsidiaries, is alive and well, manufacturing weapons to this day. They also have manufactured autos, and other items for a number of years. Zastava Automobiles manufactured the Yugo auto back in the 80's, and today makes the Fiat 500L. The headquarters are located in Kragujevac, Serbia.

The Model 59 was accepted in to service in 1959, going by the naming. But, production didn't start till several years later, in the mid 1960's. What is estimated to be the first production rifles, is known as the long barreled Yugoslavian SKS. These have very low serial numbers, production is estimated to be around 100 and have a barrel roughly 2 inches longer than a standard issue SKS. These are due to very low production numbers the rarest of the Yugoslav family, also possibly the rarest SKS variant. The date commonly accepted is 1961 for the production of these rifles.

For an in depth look at the rare long barreled M59, click the link below
M-59 Long Barrel (PICS) (http://sks-files.com/index.php?topic=1036.0)

Somewhere between 1964 and 1967, after a short lapse in production Yugoslavian restarted with 1 for a serial, the next two known prefixes in the M59 production line were built, the "B" and "C" series as they are known. The letters are the serial prefix. The "B' series has proven to be less common than the "C" based off serial tracking and those coming up for sale. The highest "B" serial number, I have seen is B1535*. Either low numbers of "B" series were produced or there were not many left to import, that accounts for the rarity. The barrel length is a normal 20 inch barrel. Numbers of M59s built seem to be around 50,000+/- a few thousand. The "C" series serial seems to go to the 52,*** range. Yugoslavians are receiver stamped with a single serial prefix which is year built and a serial number, from 1 to 7 digits.

These photos show the factory prefix and serial, also is the importer dot matrix model and the importer serial. Some rifles are also found with a purplish bluing tint. What causes it, no idea, normal wear, contaminated solution, or possibly metallurgical differences. Also there is a slight difference in the serial stamps

(http://sks-files.com/Pictures/Yugoslavian/FAQ/SAM_1600.jpg)
(http://sks-files.com/Pictures/Yugoslavian/FAQ/SAM_1599.jpg)

While this variant is typical in construction for an SKS, there are some slight differences:

1)The bayonet is not plated on the M59, it's typically a dull matte gray color, the M59/66 is plated and looks like a standard issue bayonet.

2)The bore is not chrome plated....

Contrary to misconception, Macedonia and Kosovo have large chromium deposits and Yugoslavia even exported it at one time. So, Yugoslavia had the chrome to plate the bores, back then, they choose not to. Even on Aks, they didn't plate, except M-95A. Yugoslavia did how ever have a documented known inspection program, that possibly if a bore was done, worn enough, it was replaced. In the Communist world, this was busy work for the people, it kept weapons in top shape and built national pride. It could have also been a cost cutting measure, being they exported weapons, the lack of chrome could have lowered the production costs to compete with other nations exporting arms.

This has been a debate for years, many theories exist on why they didn't chrome rifle bores. The technology existed in Yugoslavia in the 1950s. Also it's a factor for collectors, bores can range from bright to borderline sewerpipe. But, even a pitted bore can still shoot.

3) parts usually have a part number stamped or electro penciled on them, also the same parts will or could have the serial stamped or electro-penciled.It is very common to find electro-pencil serial numbers, usually indicating rebuild. On the Yugoslavian carrier, these won't be numbered on the top like other rifles, the serial is on the left side flat.
Magazine part or assembly number
(http://sks-files.com/Pictures/Yugoslavian/FAQ/SAM_1604.jpg)
Butt plate number
(http://sks-files.com/Pictures/Yugoslavian/FAQ/SAM_1607.jpg)
Top cover number, some replacements don't have the serial stamped
(http://sks-files.com/Pictures/Yugoslavian/FAQ/SAM_1613.jpg)
Handguards are even stamped with assembly numbers
(http://sks-files.com/Pictures/Yugoslavian/FAQ/SAM_1596.jpg)

4)Yugoslavia had no factory stamp, like the Tula star or Jianshe /26\, a common mark found is [BK]-[usually inside a circle on some older Mausers, but, typically it's a boxed [BK]. The mark is V*ojna Kontrola - Military Control, and it's a Cyrillic BK, in Latin it becomes VK = Military inspection. the B is V in Cyrilic letter alphabet.
Common  [BK] stamps
(http://sks-files.com/Pictures/Yugoslavian/FAQ/SAM_1595.jpg)
(http://sks-files.com/Pictures/Yugoslavian/FAQ/SAM_1609.jpg)
(http://sks-files.com/Pictures/Yugoslavian/FAQ/SAM_1591.jpg)

5) Yugoslavia used two types of wood, elm and possibly a European birch was used. No teak stocks have been found, even according to Matt Shuster, owner of Ironwood Designs.  Some elm can appear as teak, based on the cut, but, teak is not a native Yugoslavian wood, it is an Asian wood that is expensive and would have had to be
imported all the way to Yugoslavia. Elm is also resistant to decay when permanently wet, which means in a wet jungle environment, it would be suitable for use.

Two totally different wood types used, also note: trench art in bottom photo
(http://sks-files.com/Pictures/Yugoslavian/FAQ/SAM_1601.jpg)
(http://sks-files.com/Pictures/Yugoslavian/FAQ/SAM_1598.jpg)

6) Some stocks can be found with 1.TRZ stamped on the right side of the butt stock. Which stands for Technical overhauling institute #1, TRZ is Tehnicki Remontni Zavod. It is located in Cacak Serbia, and was functional as early as 1944 based on weapons that predate the SKS found with said stamp, and was believed to be in operation as late as 2005. They are believed to be only dealing with wood and/or stock work.

(http://sks-files.com/Pictures/Yugoslavian/FAQ/SAM_1597.jpg)

7) There is a rumored "A" prefix serial, I personally have never seen a photo or even the rifle, nor have I ever spoke with anyone who has seen the "A" prefix rifle. Whether or not this variant exists, is up for debate. I would openly welcome any physical proof, photo or proof otherwise to squash or confirm this myth.

8- Use and abuse is common, like the Sino-Banian SKS, these were used in the conflicts that tore this nation apart, like the Yugoslav War. So refurbs are a common find, due to Yugoslavia's repair and refurb program. There have been as issued M59s found, with all original parts, but again, it's not often.

Bosnian rebuild labeled as an M59
There are more or less mislabeled M59 rifles, a small number hit the market a while back. These were Bosnian rebuilt rifles from 59/66. They are easy to identify, they have the collar on the barrel to lock the bayonet, but no actual grenade launcher, it was cut off. Also, another dead give away, they still maintain the gas shut off valve. They will also be scrubbed, and the only number to be found is a new receiver serial. These were truly a complete rebuild, as I understand using new unissued barrels by TRB (Bosnia).  I have heard reports these barrels are chrome lined, but I have never seen one in person to verify.
 Some other small differences, the grenade launcher sight was removed, the front sight block looks to have been replaced with a later machined base. The flip up night sight was removed as well, but it looks as if the mount for the rear night sight pivot is present however. The stock seems to be a replacement also, and either a varnish or shellac type finish, the typical rubber butt pad is present.

(http://sks-files.com/Pictures/Yugoslavian/FAQ/yugosks2.jpg)
(http://sks-files.com/Pictures/Yugoslavian/FAQ/m59.jpg)
(http://sks-files.com/Pictures/Yugoslavian/FAQ/yugosks8.jpg)
Title: Re: M59 Yugoslavian SKS
Post by: padams8888 on June 15, 2015, 12:11:22 PM
Outstanding work GM.......thank you for your good work!
Title: Re: M59 Yugoslavian SKS
Post by: CARBINE on June 15, 2015, 12:20:17 PM
Great read, learning more every day....Thanks Man!!
Title: Re: M59 Yugoslavian SKS
Post by: Dannyboy53 on June 15, 2015, 04:56:25 PM
Very interesting and informative.

Thanks Greasemonkey
Title: Re: M59 Yugoslavian SKS
Post by: MEBears on June 15, 2015, 07:29:48 PM
Thank-you! I have been looking around for information on these and there is not a lot out there.
Title: Re: M59 Yugoslavian SKS
Post by: Direct Connection on October 21, 2018, 07:20:02 PM
Hands down the baddest looking and most masculine in the SkS family. Not to mention they simply do not Malfunction. The most accurate due to the non chromed BBl and if you got a really good one and treat it well she will leave you a kiss of cosmoline on your cheek by the end of the day. Get you some of that !! thumb1

Great Job GM. 

 
(https://image.ibb.co/eqS0qf/p-002-1.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
Title: Re: M59 Yugoslavian SKS
Post by: carls sks on October 21, 2018, 07:37:21 PM
good info, thanks all.  thumb1
Title: Re: M59 Yugoslavian SKS
Post by: Matchka on January 02, 2019, 12:24:27 PM
GM, Here's a look at a 'G' serial numbered 59 that, by looking at the stock, could be a light refurb. Whatcha think?

(https://i.ibb.co/WBjV8RY/image5.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GCNHYrb)

(https://i.ibb.co/bmns7Sk/image2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qjwNxtv)

(https://i.ibb.co/sHMLNWJ/image3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gVBsf4F)

(https://i.ibb.co/wJ6Qd2J/image1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5Ycj1JY)
Title: Re: M59 Yugoslavian SKS
Post by: Matchka on January 02, 2019, 12:38:34 PM
Serial number on above M59

(https://i.ibb.co/41Mvz3d/image4-1-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/LN6jmH5)
Title: Re: M59 Yugoslavian SKS
Post by: Greasemonkey on January 02, 2019, 01:26:19 PM
Very nice example..  thumb1 I would be honored to drool on it. drool2

I would hazard a guess... based off what looks like strong unworn blueing it's cycled through a refurb shop at least once in it's life or before it hit the storage crate. First thing that caught my eye was the lack of blueing wear where the carrier slides.

I've never been much on the terms..."light" and "heavy" refurb.... a refurb job, is a refurb job, no matter how one slices it. :) It comes down too where does one draw the line with the terminology... anything more than a rear sight leaf is a heavy refurb or would a bolt replacement constitute a light refurb..when in actuality, either of those could have possibly been a field repair. All those fancy terms have as many different definitions as there is collectors..
Title: Re: M59 Yugoslavian SKS
Post by: Matchka on January 02, 2019, 03:40:18 PM
GM, I'd think "light" in the refurb thing leaves the building once any major, as-built, factory, serialized (including electro pencil) "out of the crate" part goes away.
Code: [Select]

Patina helps in determining the originality but "period" non-serialized replacements can tamp down this observation. E.g., swapping out a buttplate or cleaning kit. And, there's the sling, bayonet "did/didn't come with". Yikes.

Re-blued, painted, polished, wood fill, scrubbed is a refurbish with a capital 'R'.

Cosmoline residue? "Still has the cosmoline!" Proves nada. (the Garand community seems to love this.)

Ten or so years ago, I don't think anyone would've given faking the provenance of the SKS. "Bring back" papers? I digress. dash3
Title: Re: M59 Yugoslavian SKS
Post by: Greasemonkey on January 02, 2019, 04:10:05 PM
But... a refurb is still a refurb. Yes...I am a stubborn bastard.  rofl2  Just ask..anyone rofl

To me if the refurb factory monkey dollys up and numbers a new carrier then slathers on the grease and throws it in the crate after signing off on it, it's been refurbed.. it's not like it was when it rolled off the assembly line. If the same said refub factory monkey, throws a new barrel, new bolt, and a butt stock flap, slathers on the grease and throws it in the crate after signing off on it, it's been refurbed.. again, it's not how it left the factory.

Like buying a cylinder head for most any engine.. you get a new one, a brand high dollar new virgin casting and all virgin parts, or you get a refurb.. the refurb head they might have cleaned up, check it out and everything met the specification for reuse, so they box it and sell it. While the next head needed guides, all the valve seats were beat out of it, springs were weak, a couple of valves were bad and was shaved due to warpage... both of those heads are now refurbed and ironically, both refurbs cost the same to the end user.

Now, you might say, well the one that didn't take any parts is like the factory had it, can one be 100% sure they didn't mix a valve with another like head, are all the valves back in their respective position, same with the valve springs and keepers, and for goodness sakes, I hope they didn't reuse the valve seals.......   In the end, side by side, 99.9% of people couldn't tell the difference in those 3 cylinder heads when all the work is done and the vehicle is running down the road.
Title: Re: M59 Yugoslavian SKS
Post by: Phosphorus32 on January 02, 2019, 04:43:12 PM
Serial number on above M59

(https://i.ibb.co/41Mvz3d/image4-1-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/LN6jmH5)

C-37364 not G.

Title: Re: M59 Yugoslavian SKS
Post by: Bob_The_Student on January 02, 2019, 05:40:16 PM
Thanks Phosphorus I was about to "freak out". I thought I have been overlooking M59's. HA!
Title: Re: M59 Yugoslavian SKS
Post by: running-man on January 02, 2019, 11:32:39 PM
I've never been much on the terms..."light" and "heavy" refurb.... a refurb job, is a refurb job, no matter how one slices it. :) It comes down too where does one draw the line with the terminology... anything more than a rear sight leaf is a heavy refurb or would a bolt replacement constitute a light refurb..when in actuality, either of those could have possibly been a field repair. All those fancy terms have as many different definitions as there is collectors..

This is just my opinion, but 'light' and 'heavy' refurbs when it pertains to SKSs are only applicable to Russian SKS45s. BBQ paint = heavy, other types of refurbs with mostly original parts = light.  Any other country SKS is so subjective that it's useless nomenclature IMO.
Title: Re: M59 Yugoslavian SKS
Post by: Matchka on January 03, 2019, 04:37:34 AM
In the spirit of the post, I should've written assembly v crate a couple of times. I agree, once it's been pulled from the crate, as-assembled, and its moneyed with, it's a refurb. Your analogy wrt a 100% as-built engine v. matching casting nrs is spot on.

Here's three more pics of the M59. Also, what's the YOM for this C?
(https://i.ibb.co/41PLMLj/image3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/PDwy4y5)

(https://i.ibb.co/nkBN37p/image2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/YjXFDcg)

(https://i.ibb.co/pJX8CJk/image1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qk1fbk2)
Title: Re: M59 Yugoslavian SKS
Post by: Direct Connection on January 03, 2019, 06:19:42 AM
That thing is gorgeous Matchka ! Id be looking for me a cleaning rod very soon to finalize its beauty : ). I think any CR will work except 59/66. In the two pics of the buttplate and Mag those are part numbers. Someone can give you an approximate year by the serial number im sure. Good going ! Nice Piece of history there. Does it have the TRZ stamp on the wood at the bottom of the stock ?
Title: Re: M59 Yugoslavian SKS
Post by: Phosphorus32 on January 03, 2019, 10:29:17 AM
We don’t know the year of manufacture for M59s. 1959-1965  :)) Okay, probably 1964 or 1965.
Title: Re: M59 Yugoslavian SKS
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on January 03, 2019, 11:38:16 PM
We don’t know the year of manufacture for M59s. 1959-1965  :)) Okay, probably 1964 or 1965.

But....  its called an M59
Title: Re: M59 Yugoslavian SKS
Post by: Bob_The_Student on January 28, 2019, 07:21:55 PM
HELP! OK, so a long barrel is early non letter prefixed with approx. 100 or less made. Next comes B and C series. "B" appears to be rare and not may have been imported in large numbers? "C" are way more common so let's focus on "C" series. (Ofcourse if I have misstated GM's info let me know).

"C" series:

- (I like matching...but OK if they just are to rare to find that way) So what's the chances of finding an all matching "C"?

- Is it common (or just likely) to find EP'd parts on "C"?

- Barrels were not chrome lined so if barrel is chrome lined it has been replaced?

- Should [BK] be stamped on one or more parts of the gun/ stock?

- Should the stock have TRZ1 or is this for rearsenaled guns only? 

- Should I look for a TRZ1 gun?

- Part numbers are throughout even on stock parts possibly (not serial number)?

- The Bosnian ones made to look like M59 or mislabeled as M59.. common way to tell is gas cut off from grenade launcher?

Anything else I'm missing?

Any help appreciated.

Thanks GM for your post about M59.
Title: Re: M59 Yugoslavian SKS
Post by: Worm on January 28, 2019, 07:34:41 PM
"a refurb job, is a refurb job, no matter how one slices it. :) It comes down too where does one draw the line with the terminology... anything more than a rear sight leaf is a heavy refurb or would a bolt replacement constitute a light refurb..when in actuality, either of those could have possibly been a field repair. All those fancy terms have as many different definitions as there is collectors..

💯

Edit: Hope my pointless reply here didn't make anyone skip over the previous reply w/ questions on the last page. If so, go back. Muh bad
Title: Re: M59 Yugoslavian SKS
Post by: Greasemonkey on January 28, 2019, 07:36:33 PM
Make sure it has the correct bayonet... M59 bayonets don't come easy......or cheap...and a M59/66 bayonet won't cut it. If your looking for or at a Long Barrel, those bring some serious money...as there are just a hand full known, and quite a few are owned by members here.

M59s hold their own on the field with all the others, even mismatched...IMHO.. The "B" series does seem less common than the "C" series, Import numbers of each aren't known, but being an earlier serial prefix, less probably exist... That's purely a guess. 9 times outta 10 they all have been rebuilt at some point in time, another thing is the dark stocks like mine has don't seem to be as common as the typical large grain lighter elm stocks.

Odds of finding a chrome bore aren't great..those Bosnian rebuilds some say have chrome bores... I've never seen one to verify. They will have the square M59/66 gasblock, that's the dead giveaway.
Title: Re: M59 Yugoslavian SKS
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on January 28, 2019, 10:32:43 PM
HELP! OK, so a long barrel is early non letter prefixed with approx. 100 or less made. Next comes B and C series. "B" appears to be rare and not may have been imported in large numbers? "C" are way more common so let's focus on "C" series. (Ofcourse if I have misstated GM's info let me know).

"C" series:

- (I like matching...but OK if they just are to rare to find that way) So what's the chances of finding an all matching "C"?   Very good. 

- Is it common (or just likely) to find EP'd parts on "C"?  I would say common.
Remember, a different number other then the serial that is EPed is a production number applied during assembly and prior to serialization (normal) although this is more common on 59/66s.  Also, its common for yugos to not have the trigger guard, magazine, and receiver cover serialzed.  IIRC they didn't start serializing these parts until later in the 59/66s.   Yugos are a bit convoluted with numbers.  Your dealing with part #s, production #s, AND serial #s


- Barrels were not chrome lined so if barrel is chrome lined it has been replaced? GM answered

- Should [BK] be stamped on one or more parts of the gun/ stock? Yes, you will find them throughout the parts.

- Should the stock have TRZ1 or is this for rearsenaled guns only?  Rearsenal only

- Should I look for a TRZ1 gun?  Most all have it so don't let it be a deciding factor.

- Part numbers are throughout even on stock parts possibly (not serial number)? See above comments on serials of mags and triggers. All stocks are serialized matching the receiver if original.  No serial # means replacement. The only other number you may find on a yugo is the production number written in pencil in the finger groove..... likely going to be a brand new as-issed gun to find this still present. Also, yugos don't have stock finish.....  just cosmo soaked.  Stay away from anything with shellac etc

- The Bosnian ones made to look like M59 or mislabeled as M59.. common way to tell is gas cut off from grenade launcher? I hate these things

Anything else I'm missing?

Any help appreciated.

Thanks GM for your post about M59.
Title: Re: M59 Yugoslavian SKS
Post by: running-man on January 28, 2019, 10:45:49 PM
I think the easiest way to tell if the "M59" you might be looking at is a modified M59/66 is to look at the front sight block and the way the bayonet snaps into place when extended.  The cut down guns look 'funny', almost incomplete (note the stubby FSB, lack of cleaning rod nipples, extra cylinder for the bayonet hook to clip into, and lack of a hoop on the bayo collar to go over barrel on the cut down version):

True M59:
(https://i.ibb.co/wNGTq0R/C48388-right-front.jpg) (https://ibb.co/27Vwrny)
(https://i.ibb.co/YhRWptV/C46052-left-front.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kXHyQhP)


Cut down M59/66:
(https://i.ibb.co/D5xVKf7/000214-right-front2.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/LNzKMMt/000214-left-front.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)

Title: Re: M59 Yugoslavian SKS
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on January 28, 2019, 10:54:13 PM
Cut down M59/66:
(https://i.ibb.co/D5xVKf7/000214-right-front2.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/LNzKMMt/000214-left-front.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)


Kill it!!!!!….......KILL IT NOW!!!!!!
Title: Re: M59 Yugoslavian SKS
Post by: running-man on January 28, 2019, 11:08:55 PM
I don't see why you hate them so much....you know P50 says that your Yugo collection is total horse crap w/o at least 3 or 4 of these!!  chuckles1

(OK he may not have really said the horse crap part, but he definitely likes these arsenal butchered guns)
Title: Re: M59 Yugoslavian SKS
Post by: Bob_The_Student on January 29, 2019, 03:53:13 AM
OK, thanks for the info so far.

What's the easiest way to tell if stocks been sanded on these? Looking at the serial numbers (faint)? Any other easy ways to tell?

How do I know the bayonet from any other bayonet? Am I looking for 12 3/8" (9 1/8 blade) overall length for an M59? The long cut out in middle of blade? Would Hooper's info/photos be correct? http://www.yooperj.com/SKS-19.htm (asking cause some have said some info on his sight is out dated)

Gas Block:are they at 45 degree for original? I ask about 45 degree like early Russians because I swear I seen one like that and can't find it now.  Or do they have a slant to them and obviously not a 90 degree? Obviously RM's example is not 45 degree.

What's a value for M59 is there a premium over 59/66? So what would be the going rate for an all around gun that may be all original match vs forced match?
**Loose Cannon stated that trig guard, dust cover and mag not serialized sometimes. So if it is now marked/EP'd does that hurt the gun collector wise? OR is it understood this took place just like any other EP'd SKS variants in various places? And further if a MAG, TRIGGER GUARD or DUST COVER are not serialized it's understood this was common and does not hurt value? (STRICTLY TALKING SERIAL NUMBERS not part or manufacturer numbers). Or do collectors look at this as a way to not know if parts are original?

Different hues of the bluing on metal parts are common on the M59s also? Or does that only apply to 59/66 variant?

thanks for help and examples.
Title: Re: M59 Yugoslavian SKS
Post by: Greasemonkey on January 29, 2019, 07:40:33 AM
The bayonet is a very dull/matte dark grey.. not true dull chrome looking silver like the rest. Almost looks like it was sandblasted.

I haven't seen many stocks sanded....unless bubba did it. Serials should be pretty clear, if faint or non existent... Someone may have sanded it here.

What I've seen, M59s will carry about a 100 to a 200 premium over the M59/66, over all condition carries some weight.

Study the picture of my orginial post to see the M59 gas block, the M59/66 is totally different, the M59 is more kind of like a later Russian or earlier Chinese.

In my opinion...your over complicating the serial numbers. Nerither of mine really have matching numbers...most parts just have the assembly numbers. The bolt and carrier have serial numbers and I think, one magazine. Do not expect to find serials stamped on every piece. If mismatched....they still hold value, maybe a handfull match, largely because they have been rebuilt who knows how many times.  Remember, Yugoslavia actually used these, they didn't just make them like other nations to collect dust and sell years later.

Yes.. you can find different shade of blueing, one of mine has a purpleish tint, not the normal deep dark blue. I've seen several, totally normal in my book.
Title: Re: M59 Yugoslavian SKS
Post by: Bob_The_Student on January 29, 2019, 08:57:45 AM
OK, great. Much appreciated.

The only reason I ask about serials so much I'm trying to make sure I'm not getting something that isn't original (faked if you will). I keep learning daily how people are constantly faking guns/ parts etc..... so just trying to be cautious. That way if I see something I can say it doesn't sound or look right.

The bayonet do you agree has a long "cut" running almost length of blade as opposed to the shorter "cut" on 59/66? Is that a way to tell also? Does the lengths vary from 59 to 59/66 or do I simply look for the color only? Since they are expensive I want to make sure these are correct also.
Title: Re: M59 Yugoslavian SKS
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on January 29, 2019, 09:05:11 AM
The m59 bayo is the same as a russian, romanian, early chinese etc only it has a matte grey finish.  The 59/66 bayo is longer then all others and wouldn't even mount unless the stock groove is extended. 
Title: Re: M59 Yugoslavian SKS
Post by: Greasemonkey on January 29, 2019, 09:18:58 AM
I haven't seen any faked M59s short of them wanna be converted M59s.

The M59/66 bayonet is longer due to the launcher... Plus there is no barrel loop. There is also a difference in the blood grooves like you mention.
Title: Re: M59 Yugoslavian SKS
Post by: Matchka on January 29, 2019, 04:13:11 PM
In about a week or so, gonna look at a fellow's 'M59'. Sold him my M-1 carbine, so he's giving me first buy/refusal. I'll follow up with all of the relevant pics for the group expertise to determine authenticity. He picked it up at a gun show many moons ago and is clearing out the safe - making room for more M-1 carbines!
Title: Re: M59 Yugoslavian SKS
Post by: Direct Connection on January 29, 2019, 08:17:49 PM
For the M59 the rule of thumb is that if the Receiver, stock, Bolt carrier and bolt all match, its considered all matching. But But But The bolt carrier has been scrubbed and epd to match ! And the mag and trigger group have been epd also ! ( And what) The workers at the arsenal needed something to do one winter day : ). like others been saying, A matching M59 isn't going to bring you a premium price over a non Matching. That's just the way it is with these trench cannons :)  When the 59/66 came into play YES, They stamped the mag, dust cover and tg also which in someone's opinion might make them a little more collectable but not necessarily more valuable or desirable than his older more reliable non matching brother.  rofl2
Title: Re: M59 Yugoslavian SKS
Post by: Matchka on January 31, 2019, 02:08:08 PM
DC, Good to know. Do you know if the Yugoslavian's manufactured the 59 in a model-specific armory and how to date the YOM by serno and possibly the numbers produced? Yooper doesn't have much on these "trench cannons" (I like that!)?
Title: Re: M59 Yugoslavian SKS
Post by: Greasemonkey on January 31, 2019, 02:29:43 PM
Because no one really knows when M59 production truely started.. some have said 1959, cause it's an M59.... Some others say 60-61-62-63-64-65-66-67-68.. who knows... Pick a winner... thumb1

They were made in the same armory as all the other SKSs, most Mausers, the M57 Tokarev a couple of Aks and probably the Yugo auto......or if you get the hatchback.....the Wego.
Title: Re: M59 Yugoslavian SKS
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on January 31, 2019, 03:04:59 PM
Look for one in a Teak stock.....   GM will go kookoo for teak. 
Title: Re: M59 Yugoslavian SKS
Post by: Greasemonkey on January 31, 2019, 03:31:53 PM
Look for one in a Teak stock.....   GM will go kookoo for teak. 

OMG... bat1

Seriously >:(
Title: Re: M59 Yugoslavian SKS
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on January 31, 2019, 04:08:50 PM
See what I mean.....

 rofl
Title: Re: M59 Yugoslavian SKS
Post by: Greasemonkey on January 31, 2019, 05:07:19 PM
See what I mean.....

 rofl

Had to go there didn't ya... Teak... BAH!!   It's a gun stock, not a fricken multi million dollar Robin Leach rich and famous yeehaw look at me yacht.

 :))
Title: Re: M59 Yugoslavian SKS
Post by: Justin Hell on February 01, 2019, 09:39:30 AM
So, I have heard that 1TRZ was only concerned with the furniture is that correct?
My M59 has a matching serialed stock, there are two huge x's across the butt over the serial vertically...but I chalked those up to trench 'art'?  It is stamped 1TRZ on the stock, but not the handguard as I have seen several times before.

The stock seems refinished vs. the handguard. The handguard is kind of discolored by filth...the stock seems as if it likely was too...but cleaned and then lightly coated with what appears to be shellac. But, perhaps the wood just seems to have a sheen on it from handling? 

There was enough internal cosmoline left that I don't think this had been fired since importation...and it seems competely off base for the PO to have refinished the stock, skipped the handguard...and never bothered to clean the gun?  Is this along the lines of something that sounds 1TRZish?   

Unfortunately, I have handled precisely one M59...this one. I have to live vicariously through the internet...
It appears matching, Yugo style anyway...the carrier penciled on the side as is the trigger frame.  The gas tube, likely isn't original...there is BX something penciled on the tube itself under the handguard and a 47 penciled under the front end on the bottom flat...47 has nothing to do with my numbers. The handguard ferrule has at some point been removed...yet does not appear to be shellacked and is a considerable mismatch in appearance.  This lends me to think the PO didn't refinish it...as they likely would have. (perhaps at a light cleaning the PO accidentally switched my gas tube with another before consigning)

Anyway great thread GM...this is my go to spot for info on this model.  thumb1
Title: Re: M59 Yugoslavian SKS
Post by: Greasemonkey on February 01, 2019, 12:12:02 PM
So, I have heard that 1TRZ was only concerned with the furniture is that correct?
My M59 has a matching serialed stock, there are two huge x's across the butt over the serial vertically...but I chalked those up to trench 'art'?  It is stamped 1TRZ on the stock, but not the handguard as I have seen several times before.

The stock seems refinished vs. the handguard. The handguard is kind of discolored by filth...the stock seems as if it likely was too...but cleaned and then lightly coated with what appears to be shellac. But, perhaps the wood just seems to have a sheen on it from handling? 

There was enough internal cosmoline left that I don't think this had been fired since importation...and it seems competely off base for the PO to have refinished the stock, skipped the handguard...and never bothered to clean the gun?  Is this along the lines of something that sounds 1TRZish?   

Unfortunately, I have handled precisely one M59...this one. I have to live vicariously through the internet...
It appears matching, Yugo style anyway...the carrier penciled on the side as is the trigger frame.  The gas tube, likely isn't original...there is BX something penciled on the tube itself under the handguard and a 47 penciled under the front end on the bottom flat...47 has nothing to do with my numbers. The handguard ferrule has at some point been removed...yet does not appear to be shellacked and is a considerable mismatch in appearance.  This lends me to think the PO didn't refinish it...as they likely would have. (perhaps at a light cleaning the PO accidentally switched my gas tube with another before consigning)

Anyway great thread GM...this is my go to spot for info on this model.  thumb1

Well.... It's apples to oranges.. but I have several variants on Yugoslavian Mausers.. I have one particular M48a that has a birch stock and elm handguard, and the dark wood stock/elm hand guard M59. I'm going to guess the stock is Birch, it's not elm and sure isn't teak. So would say any combination of wood is possible.

 I've seen both scrubbed German Mausers and Russian M44 Mosins also sporting the 1.TRZ.  In regards to wood... one has to remember they are dealing with a poor Communist nation who told Russia to basically take a hike. Dirty nasty wood would probably be acceptable for reuse, broken wood wouldn't, think of it as going green to save green. Given the vast array and type of weapons they refurbed, manufactured and used is kind of amazing, Looking at all of the Communist nation's, that little country cranked out massive piles of arms.

Yugoslavia also clung to the 8mm Mauser round pretty heavy vs. switching everything over to the Soviet 7.62x54r...even though they did have those caliber weapons and produce ammo, the 8mm was their go to.
Yugoslavia was very proud of their storage grease, a M48bo I bought, the whole barrel was filled... Not just a coating inside, it was like they took a grease gun and pumped the whole barrel full. I ended up with an impressive grease glob shoving that turd out.

To answer your very first question...
Quote
6) Some stocks can be found with 1.TRZ stamped on the right side of the butt stock. Which stands for Technical overhauling institute #1, TRZ is Tehnicki Remontni Zavod. It is located in Cacak Serbia, and was functional as early as 1944 based on weapons that predate the SKS found with said stamp, and was believed to be in operation as late as 2005. They are believed to be only dealing with wood and/or stock work.

There is also a Triangle BP124 stamp...Vojna Radionica 124 (Military Workshop 124) I have never seen this stamp on a SKS..... Mosins, Mausers and even some PPSh-41s and a few other pre 1950 weapons seem to be the ones with this mark. There is also a run of Radionica Yugo Mausers, they are fairly uncommon when comapired to the Preduzece 44 made weapons.
Title: Re: M59 Yugoslavian SKS
Post by: Garand1957 on November 20, 2019, 02:58:52 PM
Just for reference what's an all matching M59 in excellent condition worth these days ?
Title: Re: M59 Yugoslavian SKS
Post by: Direct Connection on November 20, 2019, 07:07:20 PM
In California they go from 4 to 6 fiddy these days. I sold one to Pax cheap bur only cuz hes so dam good looking🤣
Title: Re: M59 Yugoslavian SKS
Post by: sksdude on November 15, 2022, 05:43:03 PM
Here is a Yugo M59 B15001....In excellent condition....Shoots GREAT !!!
(https://i.ibb.co/HX53nJP/IMG-1444.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Bw0Fq16)

(https://i.ibb.co/w79L4q7/IMG-1446.jpg) (https://ibb.co/KDMGWgD)

(https://i.ibb.co/t42Bw1m/IMG-1450.jpg) (https://ibb.co/PNWxsVm)

(https://i.ibb.co/jZwV7S1/IMG-1463.jpg) (https://ibb.co/yBkhLrb)

(https://i.ibb.co/LCKvpxp/IMG-1467.jpg) (https://ibb.co/sF7t3K3)

(https://i.ibb.co/yg74xyb/IMG-1471.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3SQRPNL)

(https://i.ibb.co/BwhTW32/IMG-1472.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mSnhZT5)

(https://i.ibb.co/rfbwyJz/IMG-1473.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Qj8KmGT)

(https://i.ibb.co/YQYVy1Y/IMG-1474.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bmqG2Cq)

(https://i.ibb.co/1YgbVKz/IMG-1475.jpg) (https://ibb.co/PsLtp4D)

(https://i.ibb.co/jw2HH2L/IMG-1477.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GMLFFLV)

(https://i.ibb.co/gd2pBFy/IMG-1478.jpg) (https://ibb.co/DYJySg4)

(https://i.ibb.co/Dtk6z0g/IMG-1484.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wRCbB5r)

(https://i.ibb.co/znfMh97/IMG-1487.jpg) (https://ibb.co/j64Nv0W)

(https://i.ibb.co/PgT9dKQ/IMG-1498.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bXH2kTJ)
Title: Re: M59 Yugoslavian SKS
Post by: sar_ptolemy on December 11, 2022, 05:36:28 PM
GM, do you have any written/published sources on Yugoslav models to cite from, for recommendation; particularly about the Bosnian rebuilds?
Title: Re: M59 Yugoslavian SKS
Post by: Greasemonkey on December 12, 2022, 04:43:06 AM
Like most combloc weapons, there isn't really any written hard published sources, mainly due to their respective governments security and general record keeping. No nation that manufactured SKSs has ever openly volunteered production info or any info regarding processes and such. Everything here, is little bits and pieces of info collected after years of digging and research.
Title: Re: M59 Yugoslavian SKS
Post by: Matchka on October 16, 2023, 10:35:30 AM
STOLEN!

I know the MF thief but I can't prove a damn thing.
Title: Re: M59 Yugoslavian SKS
Post by: echo1 on October 16, 2023, 12:15:52 PM
Much suckage M!!! PAX
Title: Re: M59 Yugoslavian SKS
Post by: Direct Connection on October 17, 2023, 11:31:57 AM
Dang, Sorry to hear Matchka. Probably wont hit the internet but will sure keep an eye out for ya. 
Title: Re: M59 Yugoslavian SKS
Post by: running-man on October 17, 2023, 12:33:16 PM
Dang, what happened Matchka?  Was it just the M59 or others too?  Get a police report made up & make sure to distribute the description & S/N far and wide. 

Take some precautions to make sure it doesn't happen again too (change locks, move firearms to different location, etc).  Once those bastards think they've gotten away scott free the'll be back.
Title: Re: M59 Yugoslavian SKS
Post by: Matchka on October 18, 2023, 11:12:29 AM
Police report was filed. The M59 was in my workshop, disassembled, about 90% through removing the cosmoline from the metal parts. Locked the shop and left for about an hour to pick up a pack of cheese cloth and more Q-tips. When I got back the shop door was wide open. Police determined that the lock was picked (my first clue). The firing pin was MISSED! It was in a small jar of alcohol on a shelf, in plain view, directly in front of the disassembled rifle on the bench (my second clue). So far, no hits on the serno.
(https://i.ibb.co/F7snzbG/20200711-080847-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/2K85d7X)

(https://i.ibb.co/n8wDz6h/Screenshot-2019-01-17-00-33-20-1.png) (https://ibb.co/5x15BGq)

create image url (https://imgbb.com/)