Sig Sauer M17

[jmaurer]

Picked up what I intended as a range toy last week, along with several New-In-Wrap (with appropriate Cage Code label) on-sale 21-round magazines. I normally carry a Glock 19; the trigger on the M17 is "Glock-ish", but just a bit better. On its first time out, I fired 300 rounds of OLD Remington yellow-box mega pack, 100 rounds of Norma Range/Practice, and 150 rounds of CCI Blazer Brass. All of it was 115 grain FMJ standard pressure stuff, and all of it fired flawlessly. I had previously stripped the pistol, cleaned it of all weird white assembly grease/lube, and treated all of the expected wear points with Lucas Extreme Duty gun oil. Point of aim was equal to the point of impact at 7 yards; this is a very accurate pistol. One hitch was at round number 480 (CCI): the slide failed to lock back after the last round. I am inclined to throw this out of consideration for the following reasons: I was tired, I was having trouble visually focusing after that many rounds, and quite frankly, I think I "limp-wristed" it from fatigue. The second hitch was trying to shoot some ancient Speer hollow point ammo (photo at the end of the spread): I loaded a couple of mags with this (20 rounds each), and using the slide stop to chamber a round, everything choked with the slide out of battery by about 1/8", and by hand pressure/strength, IMPOSSIBLE to dislodge. I was sure I had a Sig "dud/kablooey" and was headed to a gunsmith, but I ended up pressing the muzzle-end of the slide against a Forest Service wooden trash can cover to get it out. This was prior to shooting the 250 rounds of Norma and CCI without any issues. I knew I shouldn't have tried the Speer, since it was so old, and was in fact leaking some weird white filler from the hollow point aperture of each round. Some photos:

[jmaurer]

A few more photos:

[jmaurer]

As I understand, this pistol was designed to use M/XM1153 ammo, which is VERY close to the physical dimensions externally of the Speer ammo that seemed to give this pistol a heartburn. Has anyone here had experience with a military-issue M17 and hollow point ammo? The last few:

[running-man]

Glad you were able to get the photos posted.  I'm not sure what the issue is with posting certain "imgbb. com" links, but it is certainly not consistent in the links that they give you when you upload photos to their site.

Nice rig!  Does anyone know what the feedback from the Army is on their new sidearm?  Love it / hate it / indifferent.

As I understand, this pistol was designed to use M/XM1153 ammo, which is VERY close to the physical dimensions externally of the Speer ammo that seemed to give this pistol a heartburn. Has anyone here had experience with a military-issue M17 and hollow point ammo? The last few:

Did the Speer ammo you have swell or otherwise deform with age?  That ammo should have conformed to some kind of 9 x 19 SAMMI/CIP specs when it was made I'd assume?  Just a couple thousandths easily makes the difference in headspace and chambering fully, but it is still odd to hear about a round that will consistently not chamber in a firearm it should fit, particularly a new one (but it does happen).

[jmaurer]

The ammo looked OK, but I wasn't willing to try chambering even a second round. That's the first time I've ever had that happen with any handgun. I'll run it through one of my Ruger Vaquero convertibles instead!

Some of the ammo distributors have the M1153 from Winchester and it's usually very spendy, but I'd like to try some just to be sure. Some of it is even marked for use as reference/test control ammo, so it would be ideal to run through this one. It shoots well enough that I'd really like to use it for more than just a range plinker.

[Phosphorus32]

I do like Sig Sauer pistols but I don’t have as many rounds through my (civilian version) M17 as you do.



I’ve only fired FMJ range ammo through it and it was flawless. My EDC is a P365X and I love how that shoots. I’m not a “Sig can’t do no wrong” fanboy type 🤣 but I like them 

“Leaking white filler” sounds like oxidized lead perhaps. Could be a sign that it’s very old or was stored sub-optimally.

[Phosphorus32]

Note that SG Ammo has some XM1153. I ordered a half dozen boxes  I blame you  so now I’m here as an enabler encouraging you to get some 

https://www.sgammo.com/product/9mm-luger-ammo/50-round-box-9mm-147-grain-jhp-xm1153-sp-winchester-reference-ammo-q4429ref

[jmaurer]

Will do, Phos! SGAmmo is one of my faves; gotta get that order in now!

[jmaurer]

Order placed! I just wanted to mention that SGAmmo also has the M1152:




Ordered some of this, as well - we'll see if she likes it. And thank goodness tomorrow is payday!

[Phosphorus32]

Ah-ha, trying to enable the enabler  I’ll have to resist the M1152…for now  It doesn’t seem like an ammo type that is likely to disappear like the reference M1153, so I can afford some patience. I do like to keep at least a few thousand rounds of 9x19mm since I have a lot of pistols chambered for Georg Luger’s 123 year old cartridge.

BTW, my order of the XM1153 was my 30th order from SG Ammo since I started buying from them just over 10 years ago: nearly $9K and 20.5K rounds. Thousands of 7.62x39, 5.56x45 and 9x19.

[jmaurer]

I just went back and checked my SGAmmo history, and it's about the same...stacks of Yugoslav M67, cased 7.62x54R on clips, handgun ammo of all sorts...my regret in all that is not picking up more 7.62x25 and the laser beam Russian Nagant revolver ammo. I've got a couple of Nagants that seem to make it impossible to miss with that ammo.

I'm looking forward to checking the M17 with the M1152, and I'll break out at least one box of the reference ammo, just to see how it feeds. The jam with the Speer may have been from a relatively sharp edge at the mouth of the hollow point; it looks like the M1153 had a bit more thought put in with a more rounded contour at that location. I'll report it here!

[jmaurer]

Beyond the initial report, I've now got 910 rounds through the M17 (all subsequent ammo: Winchester M1152 and Winchester 9mm NATO), and this thing just gets better the more I shoot it. I've been so impressed with it that I've now picked up an untouched M18 contract overrun with NIB/unwrapped USGI grip module (Size Small), as well as a like-new P320X Compact at a LGS, and a pawn shop civilian M18 [as new with white lithium (I guess?) factory assembly grease/lube]. 300 rounds through the P320X Compact confirms that I can shoot the Sig P320 series better than the G19, but I'll still carry the Glock until I've got several hundred through each of the Sigs. So far so good, and I haven't blown my rear end off yet with an accidental discharge!

[Phosphorus32]

Glad to hear it’s running well for you 

Wow, a contract overrun M18 too!  With the other additions I’d say you’re all-in on the P320 platform! 

[pcke2000]

Glad to hear it’s running well for you 

Wow, a contract overrun M18 too!  With the other additions I’d say you’re all-in on the P320 platform! 

In my opinion, it's just Sig's sales tactics.

[pcke2000]

Glad you were able to get the photos posted.  I'm not sure what the issue is with posting certain "imgbb. com" links, but it is certainly not consistent in the links that they give you when you upload photos to their site.

Nice rig!  Does anyone know what the feedback from the Army is on their new sidearm?  Love it / hate it / indifferent.

Not impressed. Reliability in combat environment could be a concern.

[running-man]

Not impressed. Reliability in combat environment could be a concern.

Sounds like par for the course with respect to the Army unfortunately.  They can screw up darn near anything!   

[Phosphorus32]

Glad to hear it’s running well for you 

Wow, a contract overrun M18 too!  With the other additions I’d say you’re all-in on the P320 platform! 

In my opinion, it's just Sig's sales tactics.

If you mean that it was an intentional overrun for civilian sales, that sounds probable. Marketing 

[jmaurer]

I think the likelihood that it's a marketing effort is a reasonable, and probable, explanation for these pistols, and I bought the gun with that in mind. From a collector/purist point of view, there are no visual distractions from a pistol that would end up in a GI's holster. It's the same reason I bought one of Beretta's M9 pistols a LONG time ago (the one in the green box with the Bianchi holster, GI belt, etc. - there was, if I recall, a minimal difference in the serial numbers, but it was as close as one could get to the genuine issue M9). As far as I know, the only REAL USGI M17s that have been sold on the civilian market were from about 4 or 5 years ago. Those seem to have been low-numbered guns with FDE controls that MAY have been a trial issue batch, many of which were sold with documentation indicating the unit to which the pistol was issued. Ballpark on those seems to be around $2500 now. I wonder if the FDE controls were the problem: if there was peeling of a coating on those items, that may have led to the change in spec to the black finish on the current-issue pistols.

Comparing the GI production-line M17 and the civilian M18 may indicate different production standards; the slide finish is different, the rear sight/optic plate fixing is altogether different, the slide release is different, etc. I'll say though that the civilian finish on the M18 slide and barrel seems to be slightly BETTER than on the M17, with a lot more bright spots on the M17's barrel.

That being said, it's been the gateway to a revelation for personal defense/concealed carry. I ran a few hundred rounds through the M17, M18, the P320XC, the Beretta M9, a duffle-bag 1986 CZ75, my Glock 19, and a Ruger .380 LCP this past weekend so I could continue to evaluate the best option for carry, and I find still that I can shoot the Sig pistols better than all the rest. A caveat there is that I've put small grip modules on the Sigs, all of which end up easier to control than the Gen4 Glock 19 without a backstrap.

[pcke2000]

I think the likelihood that it's a marketing effort is a reasonable, and probable, explanation for these pistols, and I bought the gun with that in mind. From a collector/purist point of view, there are no visual distractions from a pistol that would end up in a GI's holster. It's the same reason I bought one of Beretta's M9 pistols a LONG time ago (the one in the green box with the Bianchi holster, GI belt, etc. - there was, if I recall, a minimal difference in the serial numbers, but it was as close as one could get to the genuine issue M9). As far as I know, the only REAL USGI M17s that have been sold on the civilian market were from about 4 or 5 years ago. Those seem to have been low-numbered guns with FDE controls that MAY have been a trial issue batch, many of which were sold with documentation indicating the unit to which the pistol was issued. Ballpark on those seems to be around $2500 now. I wonder if the FDE controls were the problem: if there was peeling of a coating on those items, that may have led to the change in spec to the black finish on the current-issue pistols.

Comparing the GI production-line M17 and the civilian M18 may indicate different production standards; the slide finish is different, the rear sight/optic plate fixing is altogether different, the slide release is different, etc. I'll say though that the civilian finish on the M18 slide and barrel seems to be slightly BETTER than on the M17, with a lot more bright spots on the M17's barrel.

That being said, it's been the gateway to a revelation for personal defense/concealed carry. I ran a few hundred rounds through the M17, M18, the P320XC, the Beretta M9, a duffle-bag 1986 CZ75, my Glock 19, and a Ruger .380 LCP this past weekend so I could continue to evaluate the best option for carry, and I find still that I can shoot the Sig pistols better than all the rest. A caveat there is that I've put small grip modules on the Sigs, all of which end up easier to control than the Gen4 Glock 19 without a backstrap.

Where did you buy this M17 if you don't mind me asking?

The black finish on the safety switch of real USGI M-17 gets worn off easily too.

[jmaurer]

This one was languishing in a local shop for several months, and I'd walked past it many times. A new hire at my company was really into Sig handguns, so I took a closer look after hearing of his experience. I wasn't sure about it, but another trip confirmed it was from the military production line. I've given them a lot of business, and the staff gave me a smoking deal since it had been handled a lot; they discounted it as a "floor" model. They also had a couple of small bins of the 17 and 21 round magazines on sale for UNDER $30, so I snagged many.

I've also recently picked up one of the "overrun" M18 pistols from Bereli online, but those are gone, the last time I looked. Proven Arms has them, and if you're a veteran, the price is reasonably competitive. They also carry USGI-packaged grip modules for these - the shop where I picked up the M17 left all packaging unopened, and I've left the spare grip module unopened, as well. Maybe that will boost value at some point, so for now I'll continue shooting the "civilian" M18. Proven Arms' description for these is interesting: