1949 Tula Redux

[Greatguns]

Yes. Different hand did the first letter.

Yeah, I’m sticking to that’s impossible to determine, given that an electropencil is not a precision writing tool, the different radii of the two parts, and it’s a human doing the writing (no two letters will be exactly the same). You can see how wavy every part of the Ж is on the tighter radius gas piston.

Or...the guy wanted to take a break so he leaned over to his buddy on the line and said(in my best Russian accent) 'Comrade, I go on break now, you finish letter for me Da?'   And thus we have 2 different looking Жs...unless, of course, the comrade said(again in my best Russian accent) 'Nyet, you finish when return from break'

[jaroslav]

Yes. Different hand did the first letter.

Yeah, I’m sticking to that’s impossible to determine, given that an electropencil is not a precision writing tool, the different radii of the two parts, and it’s a human doing the writing (no two letters will be exactly the same). You can see how wavy every part of the Ж is on the tighter radius gas piston.

What I mean is the Ж  on the gas tube and piston is hand WRITTEN and the rest electro -pencilled is hand PRINTED.
Why I noticed that, is, I had to learn Russian language for 5 years, so I can do Russian handwritting.

[Phosphorus32]

To me they both look like cursive, I can see the continuous lines in both. I see the loops have closed and the lines are unsteady on the gas piston, but I still see a continuous pen-to-steel line on the Ж. We agree that they look different but as to the reason why they look different I think we’re just going to have to agree to disagree 

[pcke2000]

I fully understand the differences between standard print Ж and hand written Ж jaroslav talked about (I used to learn a little bit Russian but now almost forgot all). However, I believe it's more likely up to technician's personal preferences. Based upon my observation on e-penciled serials on SKS and refurb SVT-40, it is not uncommon.

Similar cases can be seen with Cyrillic prefixes containing letters П, Д, and ф.

[pcke2000]

I compared my early 50 and 54 safety levers. Never noticed difference until it was mentioned.

https://ibb.co/album/FkZhjC

That's exactly what I talked about. One is almost 90 degrees perpendicular to trigger guard, while the other has a noticeable angle.

[Phosphorus32]

Regardless of the EP'd letters, it's difficult to say whether part x, y or z is original to the gun in a heavy refurb like this SKS. However, I immediately felt like the gas piston was odd when I was cleaning it. Here are side-by-side pics with the gas piston from my late 1950 SKS-45.

The radius in the transition from the head to the shaft of the gas piston in the 1949 is definitely tighter than the one in the 1950.

[Cz315]

I agree with jaroslav that the two Ж's were likely written by two different people. Given the heavy refurb nature of the rifle it's feasible that it underwent updating at two different times. As long as the part are time appropriate it probably matters very little, though.

[Phosphorus32]

You guys no doubt have cursive writing that is far superior to mine. There is no way I could duplicate my cursive letters with pen on paper, let alone while using an electropencil on a tube and a rod that differ 2.5 fold in diameter (15 vs. 6 mm) 




Regardless, I agree you can't assign originality to a refurbished common replacement part. Furthermore, the two gas pistons I showed in my previous post are definitely different, whether the tight radius gas piston in my 1949 is actually a 1949 part or not.

[Justin Hell]

I applaud the photos in this thread. Every single base is covered. Bottom pinned stock ferrules are so naughty.

I would like to challenge anyone to actually use their natural script when electro penciling. Using a pointy vibrating tool on a rounded surface is akin to what legally constitutes a valid signature on a ballot. If this is some kind of abrasion meant to mislead, I am not moved. I also clap for the noticing of the differences of early pistons...something I certainly noticed, but assumed everybody knew already.

Off the top of my head, I fail to recall the gun you have already left to me in your SKS-Files will, but I don't forget a potential SKS down the pipe. Whatever that gun was, if you could revise your will to upgrade to this one...I don't think I would mind, and promise your memory would last as long as mine does. 

Now I have to go look at a few SKSs built using Canadian parts...checking for my safety groove's polarity.

It is wonderful seeing a board member transaction where a pig poker becomes a collectible and we get another glimpse at one of these neato versions of our favorite gun. 

[jstin2]

After reading this post, I checked out my 50 with spike and my 54. I would say that the piston rod were transitioned in 1950.

https://ibb.co/album/5x1ZfM

[pcke2000]

Thank you everyone for bringing up this unique feature on gas piston. I have to admit that I had never paid attention to it until I saw you guys' posts today.

I think P32's gas piston is original to his 1949, or at least period correct. Attached is a pic of gas piston on my 1949 (I took the pic back in 2015, but had never thought it's different from later pistons).

[Phosphorus32]

I applaud the photos in this thread. Every single base is covered. Bottom pinned stock ferrules are so naughty.

I would like to challenge anyone to actually use their natural script when electro penciling. Using a pointy vibrating tool on a rounded surface is akin to what legally constitutes a valid signature on a ballot. If this is some kind of abrasion meant to mislead, I am not moved. I also clap for the noticing of the differences of early pistons...something I certainly noticed, but assumed everybody knew already.

Off the top of my head, I fail to recall the gun you have already left to me in your SKS-Files will, but I don't forget a potential SKS down the pipe. Whatever that gun was, if you could revise your will to upgrade to this one...I don't think I would mind, and promise your memory would last as long as mine does. 

Now I have to go look at a few SKSs built using Canadian parts...checking for my safety groove's polarity.

It is wonderful seeing a board member transaction where a pig poker becomes a collectible and we get another glimpse at one of these neato versions of our favorite gun. 

Thanks JH   

I'll change the will today man  I don't know about the part in yellow, that may be a bridge too far 

[Hotrod]

Interesting about the gas piston. I had never noticed. My “transitional” 50 seems to be the earlier one as well.

[Cz315]

Here is what I found with some of mine. Here I'm showing the pistons from refurb mid-50, as issued 52 and refurb Izzy 53. I assumed that the piston shape ³²P found was specific to very early versions but maybe it persisted for quite some time. To quantitatively measure the curvature I took the distance between the beginning of the stem and the end of the "thick part" (see the pics for a better explanation). For both 50 and 52 I see ~3.5 mm and for the 53 I see ~6.4 mm. Also the diameter of the sea itself is different. For the '50 one it's 6.2 mm and for the other two it's 6.3 mm. Not much of a difference (although it's real one), it might be specific to that rod, who knows... Pics below.

[pcke2000]

Here is what I found with some of mine. Here I'm showing the pistons from refurb mid-50, as issued 52 and refurb Izzy 53. I assumed that the piston shape ³²P found was specific to very early versions but maybe it persisted for quite some time. To quantitatively measure the curvature I took the distance between the beginning of the stem and the end of the "thick part" (see the pics for a better explanation). For both 50 and 52 I see ~3.5 mm and for the 53 I see ~6.4 mm. Also the diameter of the sea itself is different. For the '50 one it's 6.2 mm and for the other two it's 6.3 mm. Not much of a difference (although it's real one), it might be specific to that rod, who knows... Pics below.

I love this, he is radioactive now!

[Phosphorus32]

CZ, Nice, I love data. Now give me the polynomial equations that describe those curves 

[Phosphorus32]

Here is what I found with some of mine. Here I'm showing the pistons from refurb mid-50, as issued 52 and refurb Izzy 53. I assumed that the piston shape ³²P found was specific to very early versions but maybe it persisted for quite some time. To quantitatively measure the curvature I took the distance between the beginning of the stem and the end of the "thick part" (see the pics for a better explanation). For both 50 and 52 I see ~3.5 mm and for the 53 I see ~6.4 mm. Also the diameter of the sea itself is different. For the '50 one it's 6.2 mm and for the other two it's 6.3 mm. Not much of a difference (although it's real one), it might be specific to that rod, who knows... Pics below.

I love this, he is radioactive now!

Yes, he wrote it correctly, well done!

[Matchka]

Fascinating. From this post, and jstin2's post and replies on 'Sean's' 1949, the subtle but now apparent differences (deep in the weeds) of Russian SKS production tweaks could probably be devoted to a dedicated handbook!