First AK?

[John Galt]

I have an urge to get into an AK.  Just a good one, fun, plinker, range gun.  What is a good one to get?  I was look many of the variants and just can't decide.  I would get one that had the furniture that I want so changing things up would not be an issue.  Any recommendations?

[Greasemonkey]

Ok,  what price range 450ish to 1000+, caliber .223, 5.45, x39, .308, x54r, 410, 12ga?  Decisions, decisions.

A Chinese straight cut Mak90 is a decent one, 1.5mm receiver, slightly heavier barrel than it's European counterparts and a sweet factory double hook trigger, most other Aks are single hook triggers, they can be get pricey, 7-800 or so.

A Yugo OPAP M70 is another heavier built variant, 1.5mm reciever and usually has a scope rail.

A Romanian WASR or Yugo NPAP are fairly decent for a starter Ak, some love'em, some despise'em. They are one that allows you to decide, yea, I like this platform and keep it, move up, or move on. Or just break bad and go all out, a SLR107, Bulgarian and get your drool on.

Maybe go outside the box,    Vz58, machined reciever, and a pound lighter than an Ak. I'd hand an Ak over before either one of my Vzs.  Sorry, it's NOT an Ak, I know.

It's an Ak, even cheaper lower end ones will typically work decent . Most pieces and parts are interchangeable with some fitting. One of my Mak90s wears Romanian wood and a Bulgarian grip, I have a wood Polish grip also that fits. I mean the factory bunghole stock is, a little ugly, it's tucked away in a box. It took some fitting to get the Romanian wood to fit the Chinese due to slightly thicker Chinese reciever and slight design differences.

[carls sks]

 $1000 budget: entry level, wasr 10. leaves money for ammo, magazines and misc stuff.

[Power Surge]

My brother wants an AK so I've been looking around for an inexpensive one to setup him up with, as he lives in NY and I'll need to convert the gun to NY compliance.

I've decided to go with a WASR 10/63 that a local guy has for $500. I don't know crap about AKs, so I did a little research into the WASR as it's got mixed reviews.

The WASR 10 is a Romanian AK47. They are originally built for single stack 10 round magazines (which is the 10 in WASR 10). So they are surplus guns imported to the US (like the SKS), and then importer modified to take full size AK mags.

From what I read, WASRs before 2008 had issues with poor receiver milling of the magwell, canted front sight blocks , as well as poor rivet attachment. Some people knock the WASR because the receiver doesn't have the dimples in the side to keep the mag tight, hence the famous WASR "mag wobble". But in reality, the WASR has internal mag blocks that keep the magazine tight. The issues on the early guns were caused by the importers milling those back to far, not the design of the gun.

[bbush44]

My brother wants an AK so I've been looking around for an inexpensive one to setup him up with, as he lives in NY and I'll need to convert the gun to NY compliance.

I've decided to go with a WASR 10/63 that a local guy has for $500. I don't know crap about AKs, so I did a little research into the WASR as it's got mixed reviews.

The WASR 10 is a Romanian AK47. They are originally built for single stack 10 round magazines (which is the 10 in WASR 10). So they are surplus guns imported to the US (like the SKS), and then importer modified to take full size AK mags.

From what I read, WASRs before 2008 had issues with poor receiver milling of the magwell, canted front sight blocks , as well as poor rivet attachment. Some people knock the WASR because the receiver doesn't have the dimples in the side to keep the mag tight, hence the famous WASR "mag wobble". But in reality, the WASR has internal mag blocks that keep the magazine tight. The issues on the early guns were caused by the importers milling those back to far, not the design of the gun.

Good points Power, but I wouldn't say all WASRS prior to 2008 had issues, it is really hit or miss. And if you choose to buy FTF versus online you can spot any of these issues before purchasing.
I have a WASR-10, I bought prior to 2008, and it does not have a canted front sight, poor rivet attachment or mag wobble. I used to order the cheapest steel 7.62x39mm online a 1000 at a time for $70+/-, and went through a lot of it. I can't even begin to imagine how many rounds I have had through my WASR-10 with no serious issues. I picked it out at a fun show, fondled it and was out the door around $425. Any of my friends that have the mentality an AK isn't accurate eat their words when I have let them shoot mine.

[jjjxlr8]

As much as I hate Arsenal and their sh1ty customer service, you may want to look at the Bulgarian made imports that they sell (SAM7 series).  These are a bit of a step up in quality (and price) compared to the Romanian WASR rifles but they are about as close as you can get to a factory built AK in a military configuration.  The imports of these rifles probably won't last forever, either.  Get one while you still can.

[Power Surge]

My brother wants an AK so I've been looking around for an inexpensive one to setup him up with, as he lives in NY and I'll need to convert the gun to NY compliance.

I've decided to go with a WASR 10/63 that a local guy has for $500. I don't know crap about AKs, so I did a little research into the WASR as it's got mixed reviews.

The WASR 10 is a Romanian AK47. They are originally built for single stack 10 round magazines (which is the 10 in WASR 10). So they are surplus guns imported to the US (like the SKS), and then importer modified to take full size AK mags.

From what I read, WASRs before 2008 had issues with poor receiver milling of the magwell, canted front sight blocks , as well as poor rivet attachment. Some people knock the WASR because the receiver doesn't have the dimples in the side to keep the mag tight, hence the famous WASR "mag wobble". But in reality, the WASR has internal mag blocks that keep the magazine tight. The issues on the early guns were caused by the importers milling those back to far, not the design of the gun.

Good points Power, but I wouldn't say all WASRS prior to 2008 had issues, it is really hit or miss. And if you choose to buy FTF versus online you can spot any of these issues before purchasing.
I have a WASR-10, I bought prior to 2008, and it does not have a canted front sight, poor rivet attachment or mag wobble. I used to order the cheapest steel 7.62x39mm online a 1000 at a time for $70+/-, and went through a lot of it. I can't even begin to imagine how many rounds I have had through my WASR-10 with no serious issues. I picked it out at a fun show, fondled it and was out the door around $425. Any of my friends that have the mentality an AK isn't accurate eat their words when I have let them shoot mine.

Very nice!  This AK will be my brother's first gun, so I'm sure he won't know any quality difference. I just don't want him to have any issues with it. But the guy I'm getting it from is a picky collector and has bought SKSs from me before. So if he says this one locks up nice and shoots well, I believe him.

[bbush44]

Maybe go outside the box,    Vz58, machined reciever, and a pound lighter than an Ak. I'd hand an Ak over before either one of my Vzs.  Sorry, it's NOT an Ak, I know.

And I would have to agree with GM about taking a serious look at a VZ58/VZ2008, if you can find one in your price range. One of my VZ2008's has replaced my go everywhere shooter SKS. It is just a blast to shoot and it gets shot A LOT! 

[jjjxlr8]

You may also want to consider an AK74.  I prefer shooting the 5.45x39 round over the 7.62x39.  More accurate, less recoil.

This is a SAIGA SGL31-68...

[armedhippie]

I'll pitch in another vote of confidence for a WASR 10  Ya'know how normaly 1 would buy a bayonet for a rifle? Well....I already had the bayonet  I loved the classic look and feel of it right from the start. It shoots like a dream as well. Is there some mag wobble? Sure...Does it affect how it feeds? Not at all. Like PS said , its not from the lack of dimples. Most AKs have some degree of wobble, not alot of the mag is actually seated in the receiver. A 10/63 is on my short list to go along with the 10.

For my 1st AKM,  I lucked out in a way, during the ole Clinton AWB. I saw 1 lonely lil AK hiding amongst a whole row of Bushmasters and such, and just had to set it free. Turned out to be a RoMak 1. They were only imported for 1 year in '97. A romanian like the SAR and WUM series that came in before the single stack WASRs. It  was an as imported double stack with double stack bolt but because of the AWB, it had the Dragunov style wood stock with crazy thick "pistol grip" and neutered bayo lug. Threads were milled off and was sold with a double stack 5 rounder. I've put 1000's of rounds through the old clanker and it has always been a tack driver with open sights and very Well made IMO.

Now I wouldn't suggest this 1 for a 1st AKM but if you ever get a chance to shoot or buy a AMD-65.... Go for it. They are a blast to shoot and rank real close to a M44 in muzzle blast. ( Mine has the original 12 1/2 barrel with extension) Crazy turned backwards ak pistol grip for a front grip, that looks like it would be uncomfortable but feels great, same can be said for the side folding wire stock. The lightest of the AKM rifles not classified as a pistol.

All that said, I've been thinking a YUGO underfolder would be the bees knees ( if I ever get off this Mosin and Tokarev kick  )

[Greasemonkey]

WASR this, MAK that, PAP there, underfolder, side folder, too many options, toys, gadgets, sharks armed with fricken lasers.   

The Ak field gets interesting when they grow up and dispurse with all the toys, the art of big, simple and lets reach out where the others dream of,  recoil lets you know it went off, as does the muzzle blast.   

[Bunker]

I bought a lot of pre-ban AKs in the eighties before the ban and still have several of the Chinese variants.  Here are two of my favorites that are both NIB with all the accessories, original boxes and signed COA for the Legend.  I’ve since shifted my AK focus to original Russian military AKs and AKMs for many years now but I’m still very fond of the early pre-bans.  I have a lot of first hand info from David and Da Keng regarding Poly Technologies history and also some credible info on GSAD but I won’t go into those details here.

NIB Poly Technologies (POLYTECH) AK-47S Legend, manufactured at Shenzhen State Arsenal (316) and imported by Keng’s Imports in 12-1988, sold to PTK International Inc. (Polytech’s Subsidiary) on 3/17/1989 and resold to LGS for domestic sale and purchased in 4-1989.  Most view the Poly Technologies “Legend Series” as the “Cadillac” of the AK variants and the closest thing to a Chinese Type 56 (milled) Assault Rifle without having the real deal.





Here a fairly scarce Chinese stamped variant in my collection.  A little background info in case anyone is interested.  This is a Golden State Arms Distributor, Inc (GSAD) Chinese Pre-Ban manufactured at the Jing-An Factory and imported in 1984.  The Jing-An Factory was the manufacturing arm of the Chinese Police/Secret Police agencies, as opposed to Norinco who was affiliated with the Chinese Army.  GSAD is known to have imported only a few thousand of these rifles in both fixed-stock and underfolder configurations.

The early GSAD fixed-stock models with folding spike bayonets have beautiful dark wood furniture and a top-notch finish.  The quality of these rifles is exceptional.  The first shipment of GSAD’s are simply marked “GSAD MANH. BEA.. CA” above the left-side pistol grip on the receiver.  The only other markings on the rifle is the serial number, which is stamped on the receiver and all major components.  Presumably my rifle was in first shipment of GSAD’s in 1984 that had no markings. Later GSAD’s had a faint roll stamping and the full complement of markings and often the factory was hand stenciled on these later rifles (usually underneath, forward of the mag well).

Many GSAD AKs were bought up by companies in Hollywood to be used in the production of movies and have come to be referred to as “movie guns.”  In the late 1980s, production of movies showcasing the Vietnam War had tapered off and the movie guns were sold to firearm distributors.  GSAD is also to have been rumored as the source of firearms for the Bay of Pigs invasion, as well a clandestine asset of the Central Intelligence Agency.

NIB GSAD Chinese Pre-Ban manufactured at the Jing-An Factory and imported in 1984.

[jjjxlr8]

What do you know about the very early GLNIC imports?  This one was pulled from a green wooden crate at a local gun show back in 1984 1987.  The only markings are the tiny import stamp on the barrel and the "56S" on the trunion.  There are no other markings on the receiver other than the selector markings.







Sorry to veer off topic slightly, Mr. Galt!

[Greasemonkey]

 
Geez..

Another reason to go Vz, either you get a CzechPoint, CAI or homebuilt(I know it's not an Ak), and just avoid the whole Ak pissing match....

[jjjxlr8]

No reason to avoid the Kalashnikov platform.  I love my Vz58 but everyone should own at least one AK.  There are so many options and most of them are good ones.  Hard to go wrong, really, with whatever the OP chooses.

[Bunker]

What do you know about the very early GLNIC imports?  This one was pulled from a green wooden crate at a local gun show back in 1984  The only markings are the tiny import stamp on the barrel and the "56S" on the trunion.  There are no other markings on the receiver other than the selector markings.

Beautiful rifle!  I don’t really have a whole lot more to add that isn’t already common knowledge but I will add a few points.  Just in case you weren’t aware GLNIC (Guangdon Lingnan Industry Corporation) of Los Angeles, California was one of many companies that imported Chinese AKs, and in the case of GLNIC, SKS rifles as well.  Many unsubstantiated sources claim the company was established in 1986 but I’ve always suspected that it was formed earlier based on a few people that I know who were the original AK owners saying they purchased theirs as early as 1984, which supports what you said about yours being pulled from a crate in 1984. I’ve never heard of anyone that purchased a GLNIC AK prior to 1984, not to say that isn't possible, just I personally don't know of anyone.  We do know that GLNIC was in operation until at least 1992 and possibly longer. 

IMO the GSAD and GLNIC are the nicest of the real early imports and they look virtually the same.  BTW…I just seen one of those slings these two rifles use go for $150.00 immediately.  Just like the rifles, the slings are very scarce.

I never owned a GLNIC import but owned several of the other ones.  Unfortunately there is not a whole lot of information available on the GLNICs.  I was fortunate enough to track down the guy who owned GSAD and was able to obtain some good info.  All of his records were turned over to the BATF in 1992.

I believe yours is amongst the earliest GLNICs.  I’ve seen a few serial numbers below yours that have the exact same markings as yours.  I’ve never seen any over serial number 1xxx that exhibit those markings.  Here is the early GSAD cousin.  This rifle is marked exactly like yours is, which IMO further supports yours and this one being some of the very first arrivals. None of the depicted rifles below are mine. 

Credit: JOEZETA


I have seen serial numbers 1xxx, 2xxx and 3xxx that exhibit the following markings:

CGA 1xxx, or 2xxx, or 3xxx

AK47S
7.62x39MM
MADE IN CHINA

IMPORTED BY
GLNIC L.A. CA.

Some have speculated that "CGA" was a Chinese exporter and the initials stand for "Chinese Government Arms.”  I have never seen any credible reference to back up that claim.  A few examples of those markings:

GCA 2xxx
Credit: Chicom47



GCA 3xxx
Credit: daniel501



And then there is the post-ban neutered MAK90s imported by GNLIC.  This one depicted is a 1992 MAK90.

YY(Serial Number)

MAK90
7.62x39MM
MADE IN CHINA
BY NORINCO
GLNIC LA CA

Credit: Hiaboo




I don’t know much about the SKSs that were imported by GLNIC but here is an Arsenal 974 example of one, which may possibly indicate GLNIC imported SKSs prior to 1984.  I don’t know enough about these to comment one-way or the other.

Credit: Gunman25

[John Galt]

Thanks for all of the good info guys!  I have a lot of options and great advice to consider before I purchase!

Thanks for posting the pics as well.  As an sks guy, I am not familiar with all of the different variants of AK's and their cousins.  With as little as I know about AK's, the pics help a lot!

John Galt

[jjjxlr8]

Thanks for the information, Bunker!  I went back and checked my records and mine was NOT purchased in 1984.  Sorry!  It was purchased at a gun show in Toledo in 1987 for $300.  Several vendors had them and they were in green military style crates.

[running-man]

Neat stuff.

I searched and found a couple GLINC variations in my files.  The first is identical to your (974) example.  Hand engraved, right rear of receiver:

Here's another one that's almost identical, only about 1000 numbers different, these are both on /636\ guns, though this one has the LA etched out and replaced with Irwindale:


And here's a really interesting one.  It came off an odd ball DP gun.  Hand stamped with individual letters, includes the words 'semi-auto' in there (which I don't think has ever been required by law).  As best I can tell, the stamp reads:
SKS 7.62x39MM SEMI-AUTO MADE <in China?>
BY CSA IMPORTED BY GLNIC LA CA


Here's a neat one where they **'d out the LA, CA portion and restamped Irwindale, CA.  I'm guessing this must have been one of their later, if not last imports.  Is there any evidence they moved to Irwindale?



I've always wondered about any Chinese weaponry being imported into the US prior to 1984.  China wasn't removed from the ITAR prohibited countries list until then (I believe, correct me if I'm wrong here), so I always assumed that there were no large scale commercial imports of anything Chinese prior to then.  It is possible that the importers could have found caches of Chinese weapons in other countries and brought them in via a proscribed country exemption or even under the radar in violation of ITAR, but I'd be interested to hear what people might have to say about pre '84 Chinese weapon imports of any flavor.


EDIT 9/29/15:  I found a 1989 Imported GLINC gun:

[Power Surge]

Here's the WASR 10/63 I just picked up to build for my brother. Pretty nice gun actually.