RFI Musket

[Phosphorus32]

Q: What looks like a .303 but isn't?
A: An RFI .410 Musket of course!

This is an SMLE manufactured by BSA Co. in 1917, originally in .303, then converted at Rifle Factory Ishapore (RFI) in 1931 to a .410 Musket. These conversions from rifled .303 to smooth bore .410 were done from 1927-1950 in India, ostensibly for use by police, guards, etc. that needed to be armed, uh, but not too well armed. They carried the musket mostly for authority, I suppose.

It's a single shot conversion with the magazine removed and plugged with a wooden block that also serves as the feed ramp for loading single cartridges. Note that the rear sight is also pinned through the slider to make it a fixed "adjustment".

These are not your normal .410, they were made from .303 cartridges that had not been necked yet. simply a straight wall cartridge crimped over the lead ball. You can see from the photos that the 97gr .410 lead ball is driven by just 13.3gr of powder. The ball is well padded by fiber wadding (it's not nitrocellulose, I did an ignition check) and cardboard discs.

I shot all 10 rounds from one package at a 25 yard target and it gave a solid 24moa, i.e., about a 6" grouping. No hang fires, no failures to fire. It is a powder puff load and is really just a hoot to shoot! The rifle was on my want list and a recent pick up, but the ammo I got from Dan's Ammo while he still had a sea-tainer full of the stuff a couple of years ago. I bought two of the little crates of 180 cartridges (18 packs of 10), i.e., a life time supply. It's 1960 Pakistan Ordnance Factory (POF), so fresh 61 year old stuff.

[Greasemonkey]

Interesting...and cool, always wanted one. 

I honestly thought it would have more powder.. my min load in my 36cal black powder revolver w/79 grain .375 ball is 15grains of smokeless substitute.


I still wouldn't wanna be hit by it..

[Phosphorus32]

Thanks!

Yeah, I was surprised too once I had the cartridge opened up. It has more kick than a .22lr but waaaay less than a .303! Thanks

[Greasemonkey]

Always wondered..and I gotta ask....  can/could you run a regular .410 shell in it.. I'm guessing no, it's probably based off some weird British standard of measurement or the actual case, even though it's a uncrimped .303 is probably still shorter than a normal .410 shotshell. I'm sure it's not a pressure issue or action strength issue when comparing a regular .303 Brit to a .410 shotshell.

[hoopharted]

that is a interesting and very odd duck, never knew such a beast existed

[carls sks]

near, thanks for sharing. what's the story with wood in mag hole?

[running-man]

Talk about taking a Mustang and tuning it into a Pinto. That's a very wild concept though. 

I would imagine there was a rationale behind the conversions such as the gun was simply shot out and this was a relatively simple way to still utilize it w/o having to undergo a proper refurb / barrel replacement / proof test etc.  Very neat.  I love posts like this! 

[Phosphorus32]

Always wondered..and I gotta ask....  can/could you run a regular .410 shell in it.. I'm guessing no, it's probably based off some weird British standard of measurement or the actual case, even though it's a uncrimped .303 is probably still shorter than a normal .410 shotshell. I'm sure it's not a pressure issue or action strength issue when comparing a regular .303 Brit to a .410 shotshell.

They used .303 cases, so they're dimensionally different from .410 shotgun shells. A slightly thicker rim, much shorter case length at 56mm 2-3/16", an slightly smaller diameter at the base. If the chamber was generous, you might be able to wedge a 2" .410 shell in there, if you could find one.

Apparently, Century reamed some out to accept standard 2.5" .410 shells, but I'd trust those as much as any other Century gunsmithing attempts 

[Phosphorus32]

near, thanks for sharing. what's the story with wood in mag hole?

That's just to convert it to a manual loading single shot. One less removable item to lose 

[Phosphorus32]

Talk about taking a Mustang and tuning it into a Pinto. That's a very wild concept though. 

I would imagine there was a rationale behind the conversions such as the gun was simply shot out and this was a relatively simple way to still utilize it w/o having to undergo a proper refurb / barrel replacement / proof test etc.  Very neat.  I love posts like this! 

Definitely reduced functionality and much reduced range from a battle rifle perspective. Undoubtedly the hampered effectiveness was intentional. Giving the holders of the musket the appearance of armed authority without giving them too much in the way of actual round counts and range. Consistent with the civilian law enforcement, prison guard, etc. type of situation.

Presumably they would have used those No1 MkIII*s with worn out bores. There had to be quite a few of those rebarrel projects available during the FTR process from the post-WWI to post-WWII era when these were converted.

[BMont]

Coool little musket you have there.  A neat history on these... I read an article a while back and alot of these were used by prison guards?  In any event... a nice example.   Thanks for posting.

[Justin Hell]

Talk about taking a Mustang and tuning it into a Pinto. That's a very wild concept though. 

When my dad worked for Ford we got a Mustang II and a Pinto on the same day.  The Mustang disappeared sometime after I got my hand stuck in the 8-Track and my mother crashed it into the Frigidaire in the garage...y'know the ones that look like a giant Tylenol?  The Pinto stayed with us until the late 80s. The Frigidaire well into the 90s...sold it for a $5 profit after 25 years. Dad bought it for a beer cooler in the late 60s for twenty bucks.

This is a seriously neat gun...talk about repurposing!
Were the cartridges ever used for anything else?

[Phosphorus32]

that is a interesting and very odd duck, never knew such a beast existed

Indeed it is 

Coool little musket you have there.  A neat history on these... I read an article a while back and alot of these were used by prison guards?  In any event... a nice example.   Thanks for posting.

Thanks. Yes, that's the scuttlebut, prison guards, police etc., not a front line military weapon by any means.

[Phosphorus32]

Talk about taking a Mustang and tuning it into a Pinto. That's a very wild concept though. 

When my dad worked for Ford we got a Mustang II and a Pinto on the same day.  The Mustang disappeared sometime after I got my hand stuck in the 8-Track and my mother crashed it into the Frigidaire in the garage...y'know the ones that look like a giant Tylenol?  The Pinto stayed with us until the late 80s. The Frigidaire well into the 90s...sold it for a $5 profit after 25 years. Dad bought it for a beer cooler in the late 60s for twenty bucks.

This is a seriously neat gun...talk about repurposing!
Were the cartridges ever used for anything else?

Great story as usual JH! 

These cartridges were made exclusively for this set of musket conversions. Since they used standard .303 cases pulled diverted before final sizing for the standard rifle cartridge shape, I imagine that it was quite easy to tool up a production line for them. That similarity is seen in this comparison picture of a case fired through my musket, an unfired cartridge, and a .303 British Mk7z (normal 174gr bullet cartridge).

[Larry D.]

Very cool.

[Bacarnal]

Nice rifle/musket, Jon.  Enough of a round to, when fired in volley, break up a riot.  But not enough to lend reliability to an insurrection, at least that's what the Brits hoped.
As an aside, the US used reduced load "Guard" ammunition.  I have one in .30-06 from the Teens. 

[Phosphorus32]

Very cool.

Thanks Larry 

Nice rifle/musket, Jon.  Enough of a round to, when fired in volley, break up a riot.  But not enough to lend reliability to an insurrection, at least that's what the Brits hoped.
As an aside, the US used reduced load "Guard" ammunition.  I have one in .30-06 from the Teens. 

Thanks Bruce! I had no idea about the US guard ammo, that's interesting.