Am I getting a good deal here? MAS & MAB D

[Blicero]

 Before I start scrounging through completed auctions I will drop this thread here.

At the casino tonight I had a gentleman tell me he had a French MAS semi auto in 308 (I believe that's called the 49/56) rifle, and a French MAB D pistol that he's not opposed to selling. $600 on the rifle, $300 on the pistol.
I'm clueless on French arms but I do find them somewhat interesting, especially if the price is right.

Questions:
I know the MAS is rechambered from the French cartridge. That has to diminish collector value, am I wrong? I've never trusted any sort of alterations from the original caliber. Appease my apprehensions. Also keep in mind I have totally shunned the .308 caliber, I own nothing chambered for it. I don't particularly want one.
Is the MAB D a ww2 wartime design? That's all I really care about on the pistol, besides originality, condition, and affordability of course 
I've handled a MAB D before, long before I knew the difference between a 1911 and a High Power, and remember it being sleek & well built, a la the Hungarian Femaru.

On a side note, he also said he had a chromed out Mauser Luger for $900. After vomiting I told him I would try to help move it for him. So there it is, in case any of you feel like dropping that kind of cash on a shooter grade Luger. Just let me know.

I know it's impossible to give steadfast value advice without pics but that's all I'm working with for the moment. Thanks for any wisdom.

[Blicero]

Just based on 10 minutes of research...
I think he's overpriced but not totally out of line. If in average condition I think we're talking about a $700 package.
And I didn't realize the MAB D is a FN 1922 ripoff, essentially. Still neat pistols!

[Greasemonkey]

The .308 Mas, most aren’t worth the price of scrap.. about 1 in 100 if your lucky are shootable, meaning empty a mag of any random ammo with no issues. When Century did them, they really didn't take into account the pressure differences between the .308 and the 7.5 French rounds. The direct impingement gas system is either on or off, depending on if it's launching grenades, so it's unadjustable, an adjustable gas system would fix a majority of the conversions. The 7.5 French while "almost" a ballistic twin of the round, pressure wise is pretty close to the .303 Brit pressure wise, it's lower. So the gas system is out of wack, added to that, the forestock was cut as well and usually loose fitting. A tight forestock is essential for accuracy, it's a crude form of bedding for the rifle, which is why collectors don't recommend removing the wood. This same tight fitting is even found on the Mas 36 and Mas 36/51. It's also why France used the oddball screws to prevent troops from taking it apart. A loose fitting forestock, and any of them will pattern more like a shotgun vs shooting like a rifle.

With some luck, you can get one to work, but for the same 600 bucks, you could find one in the original caliber and it will work.

 Here is some info
http://jpfo.org/filegen-a-m/masrifle.htm

I'm not too up to date on the MAB D, I do know there were two MAB D versions in .32ACP, usually called the Type I and Type II, this change was around postwar or so and some were in .380ACP. The Type I would be a wartime weapon. I'd say find a little more info to narrow it down to find a accurate price.

[Phosphorus32]

Agreed. If it's a CAI .308 conversion I wouldn't bother.  It'd probably be hard to flip it for $300.

There are some very rare 7.62x51mm French conversions of the MAS 1949-56, which would be marked "CAL. 7,62 N" (pic in Buddy's link below) and one of those would be worth (at least) the original $600 asking price on the rifle.
http://www.sturmgewehr.com/bhinton/French_MAS/MAS_4956_7.62NatoSm.jpg

The CAIs have a ".308" stamped below the original CAL designation and CAI often (always?) over-stamped the 5 with a 6, then added a 2 to convert the original French factory marking of  "CAL 7,5" to "CAL 7,62". Very obvious re-stamp 

I have no first hand experience with the MAB pistols, but I gather that if you're looking for a WWII era MAB-D then you want the "Type 1" with a muzzle bushing release lever on the bottom of the frame between the trigger guard and the muzzle. Curiously, those without a WaA are apparently more rare from the standpoint of total production numbers, but I think you will pay a premium for those with authentic WaAs    The cheesy adjustable rear sight rather than the original steel fixed sight, and wood grips instead of the black plastic "MAB" grips are other dings.

[Blicero]

Thanks guys. I've read about similar disdain for the 308s but I prefer to hear that kind of thing from people I know.
The MAB is rough- finish loss, incorrect grips, just ugly. I don't think I should be spending anything on this package.

[Loose}{Cannon]

Hard for me to buy a gun that hasn't been proven in battle.   

[Phosphorus32]

Hard for me to buy a gun that hasn't been proven in battle.   

Oh, time for the inevitable French firearms jokes...      I've gotta bite on this one 

Granted, French firearms didn't see many weeks of use...by the French...in WWII.  The M36, M44 and M49 saw use in failed French colonial wars in Vietnam and Algeria (and the M49-56 was also used in the latter), so still not a great track record in terms of victories but not because they were inferior weapons.

The MAS 49-56 chambered in the original 7.5x54mm is a great SA rifle. Simple, robust...maybe a bit funny looking 





The MAS 36 is a good rifle too. 

[Loose}{Cannon]

failed French colonial wars

 

[Phosphorus32]

Perhaps we just look at historical value differently, which is fine, everyone has different motivations and criteria for collecting Perhaps you're just yanking my chain to see if this mangy dog barks back...I guess the answer is yes 

I'm definitely a generalist collector and shooter. There's some depth to my SKS, Mosin, Mauser, Lee-Enfield and US firearms collections, but I have a wide variety of other firearms. I'm curious about all sorts of firearms: regardless of use in battle, for example, a lot of South American Mausers saw limited or no use, but they are some beautiful firearms; or whether they were on the losing or winning side of a war, like the French or German firearms. I like the German Mauser 1898 lineage (Gew 98, Kar98a, K98k), even though the Germans ultimately lost both WWI and WWII. They obviously kicked butt through '42, but in the end they lost (thankfully). The German Mausers are excellent regardless. I'm more of a Mauser fan than a Mosin fan even though the latter were on the side of the victors.  Of course the Soviets lost about 10 million men/women in their victory, and the losing Germans a "mere" 5.5 million.  Again, very poor early tactics by the Russians.  The Mosins I like the best are the Finnish M39s etc., that again were used by the eventual losers, but I like their look and function, and historically their use by the underdog in the fight appeals to me.

The French firearms are interesting to me from a function standpoint, since they look and operate differently, than many other firearms of the era, but they function well. They're interesting to me from a historical standpoint as well. The French soldiers fought hard and suffered heavy losses, but I think they were doomed by the out-dated and poorly executed strategies of their general staff and politicians, and the superior strategies and novel tactics of their enemies. The French lost a total of 218,000 military personnel in WWII, so I think their firearms were "battle proven". They inflicted heavy losses on their German adversaries in the relatively brief month long Battle of France; 50,000 Germans were killed and 90,000 French soldiers lost their lives. The often used "fired once, dropped once" joke is good for a chuckle but simply not historically accurate.  If the French had not ably covered the British evacuation at Dunkirk, the outcome, or at least the timeline, of the War in Europe may have been quite different. I'm not going to argue that the French firearms had widespread use and fought in as many battles as Garands, Mausers, Mosins or Lee-Enfields, because it simply isn't true, I'm just saying that in my opinion they are interesting and worthy of collecting and they proved their utility on the battlefield despite the outcome of those battles

[running-man]

Well said Jon.  I don't own anything French, but I'm not opposed to getting one in the future.

It's that darn wacky 7.5 French that always throws me though.   

[Phosphorus32]

Well said Jon.  I don't own anything French, but I'm not opposed to getting one in the future.

Thanks. 

It's that darn wacky 7.5 French that always throws me though.   

   Yeah, there is that issue.  As long as PPU keeps making it, I'll keep buying it for 75 cents a round from Sportsman's Guide when they have free shipping, and saving the fired brass. It fires a .308 bullet so it should never be a big problem to reload.

[Blicero]

Filed under "how to troll Jon into amusing diatribes".
Noted.

I do respect the French for being resolute in their own designs. In a period when nearly every nation on earth was paying for the cutting edge & sexy Mauser design or cheaping out on surplussed communist crap, the French stood by their own creations.

[Loose}{Cannon]

Just yankin some chains.   

You love it.   

[Phosphorus32]

Filed under "how to troll Jon into amusing diatribes".
Noted.

  

Just yankin some chains.   

You love it.   

Well, uh, maybe...