Author Topic: 1955 Dated Russian SKS  (Read 294 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline pcke2000

  • SKS-FILES CONTRIBUTOR
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Marksman
  • *
  • Posts: 863
1955 Dated Russian SKS
« on: November 18, 2021, 10:30:40 PM »
Are non-refurb 1955 dated (on receiver cover) SKS supposed to have Tula star and year mark on left side of stock? My brain went blank and can't remember now.

Thanks.

Online Boris Badinov

  • BATTLEFIELD COMMISSION
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sharp-Shooter
  • *
  • Posts: 1050
Re: 1955 Dated Russian SKS
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2021, 12:26:21 PM »
Yes and No, IIRC.

I think it depends on what part of the year it was manufactured.


https://sks-files.com/index.php?topic=1079.0


Offline running-man

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Sniper
  • *
  • Posts: 5982
  • The only way to avoid Mosin #2 is avoid Mosin #1!
Re: 1955 Dated Russian SKS
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2021, 02:39:56 PM »
The KP####_Д series is odd man out, but the early ones are '56s with '55 covers anyhow.  The '55s with proper 55 covers have S/N on the receiver and no star and all 55's and newer appear to have had blank stocks.

I've never seen a non-refurb '55.  I've seen many *extremely* nice '55's I'd consider "as-issued",  but each one has crossbolt / acceptance stamps that look a little more worn than normal and/or shellac filling in certain stamps that would only have been done at an arsenal in-between issuances. 
      

Online Boris Badinov

  • BATTLEFIELD COMMISSION
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sharp-Shooter
  • *
  • Posts: 1050
Re: 1955 Dated Russian SKS
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2021, 03:55:47 PM »

I've never seen a non-refurb '55.  I've seen many *extremely* nice '55's I'd consider "as-issued",  but each one has crossbolt / acceptance stamps that look a little more worn than normal and/or shellac filling in certain stamps that would only have been done at an arsenal in-between issuances.

I hesitate to say that worn and/or lacquer/shellac filled crossbolt stamps are a definitive indication of intra-issue re-arsenal.

From what we see of the 1990's imports, the Soviet sks stockpiles (by an large) were never subjected heavy cosmoline dips that we see on the MN imports and the Sino-Banian Type56's. The absence of cosmoline indicates that the much of the Soviet sks stockpiles were kept a kind of , first-line, ready storage.

Without the protective coat of cosmoline, regular maintenance would have been obligatory. And given what we know of soviet small arms storage depots, as well as the seasonal changes in temperature and humidity-- for which birch is not the ideal wood-- wood finishes would also require regular upkeep and refinish-- regardless of whether or a given rifle had been issued or not. In those type of uncotrolled storage environments it would be on ly a matter of years befor lacquer or shellac finishes started to crack and flake.

IMHO, many of the traits long attributed to arsenal rebuild-- EP butt plates, crossbolt stamps, blued bayonets (gold ones too)--  not to mention the absence of cosmoline on the Russian sks imports, are all strong indications that even unissued rifles were subjected to regular maintenance for their entire life in storage.



 

Offline pcke2000

  • SKS-FILES CONTRIBUTOR
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Marksman
  • *
  • Posts: 863
Re: 1955 Dated Russian SKS
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2021, 10:21:50 PM »
so does this look like a non-refurb 1955?

https://www.gunbroker.com/Item/916586198

Online Phosphorus32

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+12)
  • Sniper
  • *
  • Posts: 5963
  • Send lawyers guns and money...uh, skip the lawyers
Re: 1955 Dated Russian SKS
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2021, 10:31:49 PM »
so does this look like a non-refurb 1955?

https://www.gunbroker.com/Item/916586198

Beautiful rifle. Perhaps, as close as you’re going to get on a ‘55. I still think of EP’d butt plates as a refurbishment sign. Somebody bit on the $1200 BIN.

Online Boris Badinov

  • BATTLEFIELD COMMISSION
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sharp-Shooter
  • *
  • Posts: 1050
Re: 1955 Dated Russian SKS
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2021, 11:35:21 PM »
so does this look like a non-refurb 1955?

https://www.gunbroker.com/Item/916586198

This rifle has all the traits that I attribute to an unissued, long term, ready storage rifle.
Straight from the production line to ready storage where is was subjected to a scheduled regimen of upkeep and lacquer refinish.

« Last Edit: November 19, 2021, 11:42:11 PM by Boris Badinov »

Offline Bob_The_Student

  • SKS-FILES CONTRIBUTOR
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Sharp-Shooter
  • *
  • Posts: 1090
Re: 1955 Dated Russian SKS
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2021, 05:59:03 AM »
Are the butt plate EP refurb thoughts theory's or is there concrete evidence saying that a gun with a EP butt plate is refurb'd? There can be a 100 different reasons why some BP's are EP'd. I'm curious to know where this thought comes from. I've seen it many times over the years. Is it one of those someone said it and everyone has repeated it as 100% truth or what. If we can't back it up with concrete evidence, and there may be and I don't know, we should stop claiming this until we know for sure. I don't think we can say that because 90% of the Russian SKS's don't have it then there is no other explanation or whatever reasoning unless we know for sure.

Online Boris Badinov

  • BATTLEFIELD COMMISSION
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sharp-Shooter
  • *
  • Posts: 1050
Re: 1955 Dated Russian SKS
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2021, 10:07:13 AM »
Good point, Bob.

There are similar claims that the EP plates are traits of original manufacture simply because they are commonly.seen on rifles in near pristine condition. Similar to claims about the golden bayonets with original staking marks.

For three decades the staking marks on golden bayos have been the definitive evidence that the gold bayos were original manufacture, and which also rendered any rifle with a blued bayonet an obvious refurb.

IMO, the simplest explanation for the difference in staking marks on gold and blued bayonets is that bluing a  required removing the blade, whereas golden coating did not.

More evidence, IMO, that the SKS45s were routinely maintained while in storage.  In essence, this tells me that there is no such thing as an "all original" soviet sks carbine. 




Offline Bob_The_Student

  • SKS-FILES CONTRIBUTOR
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Sharp-Shooter
  • *
  • Posts: 1090
Re: 1955 Dated Russian SKS
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2021, 01:34:36 PM »
My thought is IF we don't know 100% then perhaps Gen. Vodka of the east had his men EP their BP's to keep rifles parts identified. Maybe it was the way they were racked and it was easy to find your rifle. Maybe someone loved playing with the EP. Maybe just maybe. That is why I ask.

Online Phosphorus32

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+12)
  • Sniper
  • *
  • Posts: 5963
  • Send lawyers guns and money...uh, skip the lawyers
Re: 1955 Dated Russian SKS
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2021, 07:26:15 PM »
Interesting discussion.

I'd say the traits that are in the 100% or 99% certainty category are* :
--Stamped matching font numbers are a sign of originality
--Matching stock with arsenal cartouche (except later Tulas), year and full serial number are original

--Refurbishment arsenal markings are a sign of refurbishment
--Black paint is a sign of refurbishment

90% ? *
--EP'd gas tube, gas piston, rear sight leaf and extractor are all likely original

Many other features or characteristics are probably in the uncertain, 50% category* :
This includes EP'd buttplates. It's probably just as valid, and unfortunately just as unsubstantiated, to say that an EP'd buttplate is a sign of refurbishment, or a sign of originality.
--A working hypothesis that the buttplates were EP'd in storage, to make them easily inventoried on horizontal racks seems plausible (but again, unverified)
--A working hypothesis that "Gen. Vodka of the east had his men EP their BP's to keep rifles parts identified" seems a stretch  rofl (I know you were joking for effect Bob)  ;)
--A working hypothesis that they were EP'd at refurbishment seems plausible but unverified. Are the EP'd buttplates associated with certain refurbishment markings (i.e., inconsistent across the GRAU system)
--A working hypothesis that they were EP'd at Tula/Izhevsk originally, seems plausible but unverified. Why wasn't the practice consistent?


* Not exhaustive lists, just examples

 fineprint Caveat emptor: if you get more than one man discussing anything, the likeilhood of 100% agreement tends asymptotically toward zero the longer the discussion continues.  popcorn1

Offline Bob_The_Student

  • SKS-FILES CONTRIBUTOR
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Sharp-Shooter
  • *
  • Posts: 1090
Re: 1955 Dated Russian SKS
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2021, 07:46:28 PM »
C'mon, Jon, you don't think Gen. Vodka wanted his men's rifles to be easily identifiable?

Good stuff in the list.  thumb1

Online Boris Badinov

  • BATTLEFIELD COMMISSION
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sharp-Shooter
  • *
  • Posts: 1050
Re: 1955 Dated Russian SKS
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2021, 07:49:53 PM »
IMO, the fact the that early Chinese sks have no EP serial on the butt plate is one of the strongest pieces of evidence that the EP serials on the Soviet butt plates are post-production.

Soviet techs and advisers left China en masse in July 1959, never to return.

Until then Chinese sks production was a cut and paste replica of Soviet sks production model: Soviet techs and advisors. Soviet machinery. And soviet made replacement parts. (Essentially, a de facto third Soviet sks production line).

Excepting the stock wood, the 1956-1958 Chinese sks is an EXACT replica of the 1956-1958 Soviet letter rifle:
Same serial stamping pattern: receiver, bolt, carrier, cover, trigger, magazine, serial only stock.
Same EP serial pattern: Gas tube, piston shaft, bolt, extractor, sight leaf, and NO ep serial on the butt plate.

« Last Edit: November 21, 2021, 08:09:16 PM by Boris Badinov »

Online Phosphorus32

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+12)
  • Sniper
  • *
  • Posts: 5963
  • Send lawyers guns and money...uh, skip the lawyers
Re: 1955 Dated Russian SKS
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2021, 07:51:25 PM »
C'mon, Jon, you don't think Gen. Vodka wanted his men's rifles to be easily identifiable?

wink1 chuckles1



Good stuff in the list.  thumb1

Thanks  :)