SKS-FILES FORUM
SKS Carbines => Unaltered SKS Rifles => Chinese SKS (Commercial) => Topic started by: Bird on October 11, 2021, 09:38:04 AM
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On a visit to the Knob Creek Machine Gun Shoot back in 1990 I visited Paul Reed at his Navy Arms table in the vendors area. Paul had several commercial Chinese rifles in different configurations for sale. This one caught my eye and followed me home...
(https://i.ibb.co/WySpf1M/IMG-8188-X4.jpg) (https://ibb.co/T8zqt57)
(https://i.ibb.co/fYCB2Yf/IMG-8186-X4.jpg) (https://ibb.co/yn8GXnt)
pic uploader (https://imgbb.com/)
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I would say, being a Navy arms, and given the scope rail w/missing mount & scope that it is probably either an incomplete Sharpshooter or PU Sniper. Takes a Type-89 scope mount and I think it also came with a barrel clamp mounted bi-pod.
Also, just an FYI, the bayonet is on upside-down. The single protrusion on the spike goes up when folded so it fits into the notch on the lower stock ferrule.
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Other than the missing bits and bayo, looks nice. PAX
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More pictures...
(https://i.ibb.co/TKMK0ch/IMG-8187-X2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mv5vyJz)
image hosting (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/gj55byh/IMG-8191-X4.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qyttLBV)
(https://i.ibb.co/hBfhgDQ/IMG-8189-X2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GWTBdcY)
That's the rifle...nice, clean numbers matching shooter. And here's the scope that I purchased with the rifle...
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(https://i.ibb.co/dLy12Hx/IMG-8158-X2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Tb5p8Nd)
(https://i.ibb.co/hKSwkvF/IMG-8159-X2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cNjVPdh)
(https://i.ibb.co/B4y6129/IMG-8160-X2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/8zrxhgH)
image upload (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/JRVhgPt/IMG-8162-X3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3y2JQHd)
(https://i.ibb.co/P9QMYTR/IMG-8161-X3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/yYSpRhD)
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Also, just an FYI, the bayonet is on upside-down. The single protrusion on the spike goes up when folded so it fits into the notch on the lower stock ferrule.
Thanks for that info, Greatguns...that's what I'm here for. That will be corrected tonight. thumb1
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Very nice acquisition with the scope and case 8)
https://sks-files.com/index.php?topic=1882.0
It's a commercial build that used a 9th year (1964) Jianshe Arsenal (triangle 26) as the foundation for the build.
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Very nice acquisition with the scope and case 8)
I have always held that the scope and mount weren't really too desirable. They seem rather cheap. But I have had the scope mounted on the rifle and it does improve my shooting out to certain distances.
Being that this setup isn't one of Navy Arms marketed rifles, (Farmers Friend, Cowboy Companion, etc.) would the value diminished?
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I think any commercial sks collector would probably gobble that up with the rifle, scope and mount pretty quickly if they didnt have one.
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If you decide to separate the scope, I'd be interested, but I wouldn't split up the set. PAX
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Very nice acquisition with the scope and case 8)
I have always held that the scope and mount weren't really too desirable. They seem rather cheap. But I have had the scope mounted on the rifle and it does improve my shooting out to certain distances.
Being that this setup isn't one of Navy Arms marketed rifles, (Farmers Friend, Cowboy Companion, etc.) would the value diminished?
Bird, it IS a Navy Arms Marketed rifle. As I mentioned in my other post, it is one of 2 rifles from Navy Arms;
1. A Navy Arms Sharpshooter (S-S)
2. A Navy Arms PU Sniper
Now that I see the scope I would say it is probably a Navy Arms Sharpshooter (S-S) and is a desirable/collectible Commercial variant for any SKS collector.
Here is a link to more info http://chinesesks.weebly.com/navy-s-s.html
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Bird, it IS a Navy Arms Marketed rifle. As I mentioned in my other post, it is one of 2 rifles from Navy Arms;
1. A Navy Arms Sharpshooter (S-S)
2. A Navy Arms PU Sniper
Now that I see the scope I would say it is probably a Navy Arms Sharpshooter (S-S) and is a desirable/collectible Commercial variant for any SKS collector.[/quote]
Looking at xxxsks...Joe's information, unless I am mistaken, he is saying that both the S-S and the PU Sniper were equipped with bipods. This rifle did not have that accessory when I purchased it from Navy. Would it still be classified as a S-S?
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Bird, it IS a Navy Arms Marketed rifle. As I mentioned in my other post, it is one of 2 rifles from Navy Arms;
1. A Navy Arms Sharpshooter (S-S)
2. A Navy Arms PU Sniper
Now that I see the scope I would say it is probably a Navy Arms Sharpshooter (S-S) and is a desirable/collectible Commercial variant for any SKS collector.
Looking at xxxsks...Joe's information, unless I am mistaken, he is saying that both the S-S and the PU Sniper were equipped with bipods. This rifle did not have that accessory when I purchased it from Navy. Would it still be classified as a S-S?
My opinion is that it would, just missing the bipod. Your rifle has all the markings of the spike bayonet version xxxsks Joe has in his pics sans the bipod. It is possible, speculation on my part, it was a late import and maybe they ran out of bipods so sent it without. BTW, those can be found from time to time on Ebay and GB if you want to complete the package.
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I have a Navy with the Type 89 scope mount rail of similar vintage that I ordered new and I know for sure that Navy Arms sold these SKS rifles as standard with that rail and the type 89 scope as a optional accessory at that time but I did not buy one for mine. There wasn't that many of those scopes imported before it was stopped and these rifles have what is called "the rail to nowhere" because so few of those type 89 scopes exist nevermind having the original case to go with them.
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Hoping someone who is more savvy then me will chime in here, but I'm thinking this has a north of $1000 value as is. Find an OEM bipod and maybe $1500 (this based off of current market)
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Hoping someone who is more savvy then me will chime in here, but I'm thinking this has a north of $1000 value as is. Find an OEM bipod and maybe $1500 (this based off of current market)
(https://i.ibb.co/B6XjnR0/IMG-7779-X2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VC7Dw8f)
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rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl
Good Ole Kramer
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I have a Navy with the Type 89 scope mount rail of similar vintage that I ordered new and I know for sure that Navy Arms sold these SKS rifles as standard with that rail and the type 89 scope as a optional accessory at that time but I did not buy one for mine. There wasn't that many of those scopes imported before it was stopped and these rifles have what is called "the rail to nowhere" because so few of those type 89 scopes exist nevermind having the original case to go with them.
Not exactly. NA bases have/had mounts available. It was KSI that had the "Nowhere Rail", with no known mount made for the base. Mine had the base screwed on so I was able to remove it and fit it to a T89 mount. Later I picked up A Cowboy Companion without a scope and put the T89 on it, and just removed the nowhere rail and plugged the holes with Allens. PAX
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My rail is attached with two rivets that are flush on both sides.
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My rail is attached with two rivets that are flush on both sides.
I've seen them attached both with rivets and screws. The original furniture had a blade bayo slot filled in. Your rifle should say KSI Pomona on the right side. I've got 2 KSI Paratroopers, one HAD the rail and notched stock, the other didn't. PAX
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Very nice, Bird! I agree with the Navy Arms SharpShooter ID. Val Forgett, Jr. was a master of sales. The series of SKS rifles he sold was notorious for being, well...however you wanted them...as complete or basic as you wanted to spend. For you to pick yours up without the bipod isn't unusual. The early Navy Arms catalogs will reflect that. It's really nice that you got the transit case with the correct mount and scope. Yours is the mount with the locator pin to locate and retain position on the rail. Many are simply slip-on mounts with a tab riveted on the rail, (that many times got broke off during use), and the tab keeps the mount from slipping forward during firing. So yours is the best design, IMO.
I'm curious, do you have the clip and spring washer that retains the cinching bar for your mount? You have the mount separate from the cinching bar in your pic, is why I'm asking...
(https://i.ibb.co/JRVhgPt/IMG-8162-X3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3y2JQHd)
You may be able to match up a c-clip and spring washer if it's gotten away from you.
Very nice acquisition with the scope and case 8)
I have always held that the scope and mount weren't really too desirable. They seem rather cheap. But I have had the scope mounted on the rifle and it does improve my shooting out to certain distances.
Being that this setup isn't one of Navy Arms marketed rifles, (Farmers Friend, Cowboy Companion, etc.) would the value diminished?
Hoping someone who is more savvy then me will chime in here, but I'm thinking this has a north of $1000 value as is. Find an OEM bipod and maybe $1500 (this based off of current market)
I agree with GG on this. Prices will always fluctuate with particular sets of buyers but right now those estimates are pretty accurate. I've seen prices for the mounts alone get crazy, and you have the better mount, again, IMO. Having the correct scope, front and rear rubber eye relief, mount, transit case, and all-matching rifle, (sans the non-numbered stock. But that's just how Navy Arms did it.), is ideal for Commercial collectors and would stand steady on any SKS collectors' auction. thumb1
My rail is attached with two rivets that are flush on both sides.
I've seen them attached both with rivets and screws. The original furniture had a blade bayo slot filled in. Your rifle should say KSI Pomona on the right side. I've got 2 KSI Paratroopers, one HAD the rail and notched stock, the other didn't. PAX
Yep, my /156\ KSI "Rail To Nowhere" has the flush rivets, as well. They had some fairly nice stocks and even though they were notched for the scope mount, they kept the original numbered stock, unlike so many of the Navy Arms guns. All told, the /156\ arsenal guns were well finished guns almost to the /26\ and /416\ quality. It's a shame the correct mounts never made it here.
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/b436/firstchoice14/Chinese%20SKS-KSI%20Import-with%20the--West%20Coast%20Rail--/Chinese%20SKS%20with%20the%20West%20Coast%20Rail%20installed/.highres/ChineseSKSwithWestCoastRailscopemount--arsenal156_zpse875ebae.jpg)
/156\ "Rail To Nowhere" stocks were the ones with the star previous to the SN...
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/b436/firstchoice14/Chinese%20SKS-KSI%20Import-with%20the--West%20Coast%20Rail--/.highres/SAM_2893.jpg)
Thanks for posting it up Bird!
firstchoice
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I'm curious, do you have the clip and spring washer that retains the cinching bar for your mount? You have the mount separate from the cinching bar in your pic, is why I'm asking...[/size
firstchoice, I do not have those pieces but I can find close replacements for them by looking at photos of the mounts that have them attached.
Thanks to everyone who has added to this thread! This is exactly the reason that I signed into this forum. This info is invaluable to me and it is all greatly appreciated.
Honestly, I came here to get the history and a close value of this piece because for the last several years I have considered selling it. As you know from my "Introduction" post, this is the sole SKS in my possession...I am not a "Collector". So, knowing what I know now concerning this rifle and scope, I am even more inclined to see it in the hands of a true collector of SKS rifles.
Also, as I stated in my intro, I am surrounded by some very knowledgeable folks that I am friends with and one of them has a very extensive military SKS collection. He may, hopefully, have one of the bipods that he could be persuaded to let go. thumb1
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Both my KSI stocks are numbered to the rifles. KSI did the best job of neutering the FBS, very clean. PAX
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Would anyone happen to have a good picture of the clip and spring washer that retains the clinching bar that firstchoice is referring to?
I haven’t been able to find a picture anywhere online.
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Would anyone happen to have a good picture of the clip and spring washer that retains the clinching bar that firstchoice is referring to?
I haven’t been able to find a picture anywhere online.
This is the closest pic I can find in our Commercial scopes, mounts and rails... Sticky thread. It doesn't show a spring washer that I've seen used on similar mounts like those on AK's of various models. I'll look around and see if I can get you a better pic.
It does show the c-clip at a side view. Your local True Value hardware store could probably match the c-clip size to the mount stud. I don't know how much play you have after you get the c-clip on. If you get any "rocking" on the cinching bar, you could try various spring washers to get the right fit to snug it up.
http://sks-files.com/Pictures/Commercial_Chinese/FAQ/scopemounts8.jpg
firstchoice
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Thanks firstchoice! That's a pretty decent picture of the c-clip. I work for a copier dealer in the service department and we see a lot of that type of clip used in office equipment. I'll scrounge around in our hardware bins and probably be able to find a good fit.
Would the spring washer be installed just under the c-clip or underneath the lever?
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If you end up needing the spring washer, (and you may not), I'd think it would work better to put it under the c-clip to avoid raising the cinching bar off of the spline on the bolt. (not under the bar) Keep the bar on as much of the spline as is possible.
Try to find a c-clip that fits the groove snugly. (No room for the c-clip to slide up and down when installed.) You may not need a spring washer then. It's going to depend on your particular mount.
Not much help, I know. Hard to be more specific without seeing it and holding it in my hands. Hey, just send it to me and I'll take a good, L-O-N-G look at it! chuckles1 I'll let you know how it comes out. thumb1 chuckles1
firstchoice
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Hey, just send it to me and I'll take a good, L-O-N-G look at it! chuckles1 I'll let you know how it comes out. thumb1 chuckles1 firstchoice
rofl
I would do that, firstchoice, but I got burned a long time ago and I learnt mah lesson. I sent a rifle to some guy on the internet that I didn't know. He said he would "look" at it for me. He's been "looking" at my rifle for almost 12 years now and has never contacted me back. I'm beginning to wonder if it was some kind of scam. bat1
I did round up a few c-clips today and I'll see if any will work this evening...thanks!
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I put this rifle for sale in the Marketplace a few months ago and have reduced my price. I am hoping that it will go to a good home here before selling it locally.