Need help identifying!

[636racer]

Hi guys,
I am looking at buying a SKS but I'm having some trouble decoding the SN. It's listed as 2M21NH4388. Any idea what the 2 before the M21 or the NH after mean?

[Power Surge]

It sounds like you have an early M21 gun, but that serial configuration is odd. Can you post a pic of the serial?

Here's a link to the early M21...

http://chinesesks.weebly.com/early-m21.html

[636racer]

[Power Surge]

Definitely looks like an early "N" M21, I've just never seen one with a serial following like that.

RM will be the one to chime in on this one, me thinks.

[Loose}{Cannon]

Yes  yes...  Lets wait for RM.   

[Loose}{Cannon]

Oh what the heck...  RM is like molasses.   

Its the standard 'N' version early M21.  The other letters were added sometime after the gun was produced, and usually by either the exporter or an importer (depending on what notion you subscribe to)

I have seen this version imported.... Can you post a pic of the import stamp?

[636racer]

Thanks guys. I don't have the gun yet, just trying to do some research before I get it. The import stamp is on the rear of the receiver? I'm still new to the SKS's.

[Loose}{Cannon]

Could be anywhere....  An importer could have stamped at least 150 guns in the amount of time it takes RM to post.  He must be writing a novel.

 

[spongemonkey]

Could be anywhere....  An importer could have stamped at least 150 guns in the amount of time it takes RM to post.  He must be writing a novel.

 

So, you are saying the RM "runs" at a very, very, very. slow pace?         

[636racer]

Haha. I'll see if I can have the guy find any more marks on it. He said he couldn't them the first time. I may just have to wait until I get it this weekend.

[running-man]

(Sorry, family came over for Mother's day dinner.)

Neat gun.  I'd say this one is a '59/'60 Letter gun that has been refurbished into an M21 for official government export. The H4388 is the original S/N and should be stamped on any of the remaining original piece parts; the font is perfect for a letter gun.  There may be the remnants of a /26\ stamping to the right and slightly below the S/N on the receiver but sometimes they scrubbed those completely though.  This rifle would have been built with a long barrel lug, blade bayo, early FSB, early bolt carrier, one piece gas tube, and side swivel stock.  Hard to say how many components are still original though.

The 2 is a commonly used prefix when letter guns were refurbished. We see the 2A1234 format on many letter guns.  The 'M21 N' is one of the three common ways of designating an M21 rifle. They also used 'M21 No' and 'M21 N0'.

[Loose}{Cannon]

I would have to respectfully disagree.  Although its thought these early M21 guns were produced around the same timeframe or shortly after the letter series which would explain the same serial font.....   This clearly has the serial shifted far to the the right from any other Chinese letter series I have ever seen. 

There may be the remnants of a /26\ stamping to the right and slightly below the S/N on the receiver but sometimes they scrubbed those completely though

This would also be in the wrong position etc.  However, there is the possibility the serial was simply reapplied after the scrub but it would have you wonder why remove it in the first place. I also would find it hard to believe they would selectively scrub the 26 and not the serial.... But we know the serial is in the wrong location for a letter gun anyhow so.....

[running-man]

Might very well be. Lemme gin up some comparison photos tomorrow morning and we'll see what we can tease out.   

[Loose}{Cannon]

Might very well be. Lemme gin up some comparison photos tomorrow morning and we'll see what we can tease out.   

I've just never seen a letter series serial placed that far right.  Its still possible I guess the entire serial and 26 was scrubbed and the serial only was reused.  It really comes down to whats on the rest of the parts. 

[Power Surge]

My first observation was that it looked like a letter gun, with the M21 added. But, I agree with LC about the serial location. It's way to far over to the right to be a letter gun.

Now, we date these rifles to the "early 60s" according to the guide. So is it possible that this could be an M21 built in 1960? If so, then it would make sense that it's got a letter designated serial after the M21 N.

But then, that raises another question.... it's long lug, but has a spike bayo. According to the guide, only one year had that, and that was 64. Now, they could have used long lugs on these guns after stopping using them on regular production, but it would still have to be after 64 if the spike is original. I think we need to see more detailed pics to verify the bayo.

Just food for thought.

[Loose}{Cannon]

To elaborate on my thinking here...

The 'No' version serials are far too clean having all been observed starting with an 8 and 9.  This screams new production early M21s with year designators of 1963 and 1964.  The main issue I have always had in breaking the 'N' and 'NA' variations serial code is they are not clean, although they are all low serials having 4-5 digits.  If the gun in the OP does indeed have an H prefix on the other metal components, this would tell me it is as RM stated a refurbed letter series gun.  BUT,  that receiver serial number being placed that far to the right and having no /26\ stamp also tells me that the original serial and arsenal was scrubbed and the serial only reapplied along with the M21 designation. 

Whats this mean?  Basically the 'N' and NA' variations may very well all be refurbished guns having the 26 scrubbed and the original serial reapplied.  Looking at our list, the (until now) confusing scattered serials of these guns look like refurbed early ghost guns and now a letter gun.

[Loose}{Cannon]

Cannon needs ALOT of close pics of this carbine.   

[martin08]

The "M21" font on the one above is different than on a No 8.

[Loose}{Cannon]

Because I don't think the No 8xxxxx is a scrubbed gun.   

[martin08]

Yes.  Scrubbed vs new applied.

Hmm.....

Just as a matter of nuance when analyzing the serial number application, I'll post pics of my other two M21 No serials.  Note that the prefix appears to be applied before buffing and bluing, and the serial sequence cuts through the bluing, with ridges and ghosting.

Wondering if the scrubbed/redesignated guns have the entire sequence applied after rebluing?







And another note.  The M21 font is different between No 8 and 9