Russian Serial Numbers

[CARBINE]

I got a sks book for chrismas and found this way of decoding russian serial numbers, here is how it reads in the book.

RUSSIA
The russian system of applying serial numbers to the sks carbine followed the fairly common European method of starting serial numbers over again on an annual basis, limiting the number of digits to five (99,999), and assigning alphabetical characters in sequence, as a prefix, to indicate the sixth and succeeding digits. Of course, in the case of Russian-Made Sks carbines, the alphabetical characters are from the Cyrillic alphabet.
As an example 2 sks carbines in our survey were manufactured in 1950 and 1952. The earlier was marked with serial number K1062 and the latter, with serial number r0367. The first transliterates to the 121,062th Carbine, manufactured in 1950, and the second to the 40,367th carbine built in 1952. K is the 12th letter in the cyrillic alphabet and r is the 4th letter.

[Loose}{Cannon]

Interesting!

 But what about all the rifles with TWO letter prefixes?      Hmmmmmmm?

[BARNAUL]

I remember,not too long ago,reading on an obscure site about the Russian prefex letters also indicate number values and that  EVERY year, the serial numbers are repeated........(usually)   this is all part of the FUN ,for lack of a better word of collecting,shooting,trading the SKS.(RUSSIANS up here)(Chinese n.i.b.)
I enjoy collecting/shooting mil-surps    AND ruger firearms    but none as much as the SKS......        BARNAUL

[CARBINE]

Serial #CA1635 would be 1911635
Where it gets hairy would be the letter series guns.
The way I take it A0000 would be the first gun of each year, is this correct? So the first serial number would start at 10000.

[CARBINE]

Here is the table.
А=1 Б=2 В=3 Г=4 Д=5 Е=6 Ё=7 Ж=8 З=9 И=10 Й=11 К=12 Л=13 М=14 Н=15 О=16 П=17 Р=18 С=19 Т=20 У=21 Ф=22 Х=23 Ц=24 Ч=25 Ш=26 Щ=27 Ъ=28Ы=29 Ь=30 Э=31 Ю=32 Я=33

[running-man]

This is interesting.  What's the name of the book & author Tony?  The dual Cyrillic prefix system was used long before the SKS as MNs sport them all over the place.

One thing that has always bothered me is that the Russian SKSs don't seem to follow the European pattern. 

Take for example Romanian guns with dual letter prefixes, they are in a somewhat logical progression.  Take 1958 for example:
BC then CD then DE then EF (then FE unfortunately,^%*%$^ Romanians!)

Cyrillic prefixes seem to be all over the place regardless of year with very very few 'repeats'.  They could have gone purely alphabetically such as: AA, AБ, AB, AГ, AД, AЕ, but that sure doesn't seem to the be the case:

1949 prefixes in Notya's survey & in my photos: АГ, АУ, ГМ, ЕБ, ЕМ, ЖБ, ИЧ, ЛГ, ЛМ, MB, ОВ, РГ, РЖ, РМ, РН, РО, УК

I think it's a pretty good stretch to say the SKS45 is numbered alphabetically and XX = the 1234567th gun produced.  I'm convinced that they had some kind of code they used to increment both the first and second letters.  I'm really going to have to get off my tail and start looking into it in more detail.

[CARBINE]

THE SKS CARBINE
Steve Kehaya and Joe Poyer
North Cape Publications

Amazon.com: The SKS Carbine, 5th Revised and Expanded Edition (For Collectors Only) (9781882391141): Steve Kehaya, Joe Poyer: Books

[CARBINE]

I have to agree somewhat that this method is a little hard to swallow, I looked through the pivot tables from the russian serial # registry and it seems some of the letters are not even used like Ё Й unless whoever inputs the data just used E N, but I have not seen any examples of those.

[Loose}{Cannon]

XX = the 1234567th

I think its crap.   

[BARNAUL]

Found the site with the   APLHA -NUMERICAL INFO.......
on google  under   CYRILLIC SCRIPT
up comes  info that the early Cyrillic alphabet letters had numerical values 
  NOT BASED on the Russian Cyrillic alphabetical order   BUT on the letters
GREEK ancestors.....with examples given......   Just when it looks like something is going to explain it all, something else comes up!!!!!!!!!
  now that I threw a wrench into the gears, I'm going out to the pool....
about 30degrees outside but pool is heated...costs about 2 sks per month!!!

[running-man]

Just when it looks like something is going to explain it all, something else comes up!!!!!!!!!

If it was that easy, it would have been done a long long time ago�

Remember that Russians were utterly paranoid about disclosing information to the west.  Anything such as total small arms production numbers that might have been derived by analysis of the serial number of a few samples simply didn't happen in the USSR during the peak of the Cold War.  With all due respect to Kehaya and Poyer, the more I think about it the more that I think there's no way SKS45s have a simple alphabetically rolling Cyrillic prefix pattern...

[CARBINE]

Yeah your probably right, If they were that paronoid its more than likely way more complicated. We might not ever be able to crack it but it sure would be cool to figure it out! Does anyone know how they figured out a letter I (backwards N) russian was a 1957 ect. why letter I for 1957?

Lines up with same letters on the Tok.... which are dated.

[Taba]

so mine has BH### is that the same as 315,###?

[running-man]

If you think that, then why was rifle 3,15y,yyy built in 1957 a full 3 years after your rifle?



I think it's pretty clear that Kehaya and Poyer have no leg to stand on in this one.  The prefix code may mean something (many guys on the .ru web think that the TT's follow a very specific pattern that is extremely interesting and perhaps it might translate over to SKSs), but I think it's pretty clear it is not decoded via their chart as prefixes may or may not repeat every 2 or 3 years. 

[Bunker]

In the AK world the prefix is referred to as the batch code.  From what I've read from credible Russian books and articles (regardless of platform), the prefix does not follow a normal pattern and the prefixes will also repeat at some point, but still without a general pattern.  Now I'm sure these prefixes or batch codes for each platform are known to the Russian's in the know but this appears to be a well kept secret.  The only way to draw any reasonable assertions is by gathering a lot of data, which is what is happening here and in other Russian firearms communities, and even that is not a sure guarantee. 

With all due respect to Kehaya and Poyer, they are in over their heads with this one.  Unlike some of the other Russian weapons that are detailed in great depth in excellent Russian books, there is not a lot of real good Russian books on the SKS that take a deep dive into the weapon. 

[Taba]

well someone has told me that the BH translates to VN, but don't know what the VN means. also mine does not have the cyrillic N behind the SN#'s. thanks

[Phosphorus32]

Pics would really help. See this how to link:

http://sks-files.com/index.php?topic=87.0

well someone has told me that the BH translates to VN, but don't know what the VN means. also mine does not have the cyrillic N behind the SN#'s. thanks

Yes, I mentioned the ВН prefix are Cyrillic letters, which in the English alphabet are V and N. I did not mean that they were abbreviations for words. They are just letters that are part of the complete alphanumeric serial number found on most/all Russian firearms from about the late 30's onward.

[Taba]

Ok Thanks a ton for the info. I know we talked about it before but I forgot your name. you have been very helpful

[Power Surge]

Also keep in mind that while some Russian letters translate to English letters, it's extremely unlikely that the Russians were stamping anything with the intent of being translated to English.

[protank123@msn.com]

OK, I am real confused Mine has two letters before the serial number backwards 'N' then a thing that looks like an 'A' without the crossbar or possibly a small 'n' SN after these is 1406