Author Topic: Is there any significance to a "last four" digit serial stamp/replacement stock?  (Read 15476 times)

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Offline Loose}{Cannon

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Interesting...  I never noticed the LB missing from the V.    Like you mentioned, they are from the same time period etc.  Have to have Worm dig into his picture archives
      
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Offline Stoned_Oli

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I'll still love it, even if it doesn't have Arab dirt in it...

Offline Loose}{Cannon

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I'll still love it, even if it doesn't have Arab dirt in it...

The ones from china..... including the laminated blued bolt rifles that NEVER made the trip have a different version of this stamp in this time period.  Clearly stamped Norinco.

      
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Offline Loose}{Cannon

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The only other location I have ever heard of other than china was this arab batch.  The missing LB version could simply be a first of two small batches.  They did not come from china, and we know darn well where the LB marked guns came from... its a good bet the A guns are from the same location.
      
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Offline Worm

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RM,

Stamps don't have to be opposite from each other to be isr-cap. They have been seen on top another, across another, upside down, etc. and I have pics of every.

I would have to look through to see if any letters are missing, but pretty sure all say

CAI.ST.ALB.VT

Offline Loose}{Cannon

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The V





      
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Offline Worm

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I'd have to say, finding those missing letters in the import mark can only mean different batch, probably from a different region. Must have been the very very first imports.

Good eye RM.

Both being letter series is also pretty neat. Means it was more than likely aid from that 1960ish time period.

Guess we can knock Letter series off the Israel list.

Offline running-man

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I'd have to say, finding those missing letters in the import mark can only mean different batch, probably from a different region. Must have been the very very first imports.

Good eye RM.

Both being letter series is also pretty neat. Means it was more than likely aid from that 1960ish time period.

Guess we can knock Letter series off the Israel list.

I don't know if I'd go that far yet Mitch...if they have other features that tie them in to the 9s and 12s like stock finish or patina or whatever, maybe they do belong.  You know a heck of a lot more about these Israeli Captures than I do for certain.  LC was laughing at me the other day for focussing on stock stamps and missing that a particular gun was an Israeli Capture! rofl

LC and I were talking about the stamps last night and we both agree that ATF regs get more strict and detailed as time goes on.  CAI might have gotten away with a CAI ST. A. VT. stamp early on, but when ATF decided, "No you have to use a 'standard' recognizable abbreviation" they must have changed over to CAI ST.ALB.VT.  I think it's a pretty good bet to say that the simpler stamp predates the one with more information.  It doesn't have to be I guess..they could have changed for any number of reasons, but being forced to change by the ATF would be at the top of my list...
      

Offline Stoned_Oli

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I'd have to say, finding those missing letters in the import mark can only mean different batch, probably from a different region. Must have been the very very first imports.

Good eye RM.

Both being letter series is also pretty neat. Means it was more than likely aid from that 1960ish time period.

Guess we can knock Letter series off the Israel list.

I don't know if I'd go that far yet Mitch...if they have other features that tie them in to the 9s and 12s like stock finish or patina or whatever, maybe they do belong.  You know a heck of a lot more about these Israeli Captures than I do for certain.  LC was laughing at me the other day for focussing on stock stamps and missing that a particular gun was an Israeli Capture! rofl

LC and I were talking about the stamps last night and we both agree that ATF regs get more strict and detailed as time goes on.  CAI might have gotten away with a CAI ST. A. VT. stamp early on, but when ATF decided, "No you have to use a 'standard' recognizable abbreviation" they must have changed over to CAI ST.ALB.VT.  I think it's a pretty good bet to say that the simpler stamp predates the one with more information.  It doesn't have to be I guess..they could have changed for any number of reasons, but being forced to change by the ATF would be at the top of my list...

How do you feel about the sandy grit on the inside of the stock?

Offline Worm

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I guess so, we'll just have to keep an eye out for any letter series with more features.

Stoned,

Travis's 12 mill (I owned it first) arrived at my house with sand on the inside when i took the stock off. It has been noted by other folks with IC guns

IC is my new abbreviation btw. Lol

Offline Loose}{Cannon

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We have no less than three or four dif import markes on the recent rifles from Albania and they consisted of dif variations.  To exclude letter guns or any other variation because of two letters dropped in a very small timeframe would be insane.
      
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Offline Stoned_Oli

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Pics o' the grit. There is also a large number 4 stamped inside...






Offline Loose}{Cannon

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Uh huh....  the ole sand mixed/embedded in cosmo.

V before cleanup.



      
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Offline Worm

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We have no less than three or four dif import markes on the recent rifles from Albania and they consisted of dif variations.  To exclude letter guns or any other variation because of two letters dropped in a very small timeframe would be insane.

Not sure how that would be insane, NO letter guns have ever been found with arabic markings or blued carriers, etc. And the only two so far noticed with an early Century barrel mark are missing a few characters.

2 letter series..

Same import mark as each other, but different from IC guns..

No IC characteristics except sand.. Which could be from MANY places..

And it's Insane to think they're a different batch from another place?

I say completely inconclusive, and no way to tell until (if) we actually find a letter series with more, or any features for that matter.

Offline Loose}{Cannon

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Nope...  just stating they can easily be from the same location.  Your the one who automagically ruled it out based on??

But hey, your the boss man.   thumb1
      
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Offline Loose}{Cannon

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1) near identical stamp likely from within  year or two of the other

2) well used same overall characteristics....  nam guns have a certain look for example

3)  did you look at the color of the V?

4) you know as well as I do there are several examples that dont conform to blued/lammy/9m/12m

5) when did the plo start to be supplied with small arms again? 

6) sand.    chuckles1

How many pre IO letterguns from century mark have yo looked at?
      
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Offline Loose}{Cannon

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All I'm saying is..

I was about 80% on these being in the same batch until RM found the missing LB, now I'm about at 30% as there is still a possibility they changed mid stride.

I am still quite certain these came from at least the same region and very possibly the same location. 

Worm....   In your research, what other countries or arab states did you find evidence of century importing chinese sks carbines from?  Egypt?  Syria? Pakistan? Bangladesh?

To rule out same location from any of this (to me) is not very open minded.... again, look at the recent banians and the several stamps associated with them. These "a" only stamped rifles from century have more in common to your IC guns than ANY other known cai guns.

Have ALL IC guns had blued carriers?  No

Have all IC guns had laminated stocks?  No

Have all IC guns had black paint?  No

Have all IC guns had re-shellac?  No

Have all IC guns had Arabic painted #s?  No

Have all IC guns had an import mark? No
« Last Edit: November 23, 2014, 05:03:06 PM by Loose}{Cannon »
      
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Offline Worm

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Bringing an old thread back to life, never noticed last comments. After much reconsideration, I'd have to agree these are IC.

After looking into early imports and not having much luck, it seems as if the earliest Chinese SKS's were from Israel.

Being the CAI ST A VT is missing two characters from the standard CAI ST ALB VT, yet are identical in font, and size, I would imagine the "A" quickly turned into "ALB".

The fact that we received only 9 & 12 Mills, with the exception of a Russian that Stoned just got (and possibly a few others secretly roaming the states), when Lebanon was such a huge melting pot of SKS's (Germans, Russians, Chinese, Romanians, probably more) means that when Israel invaded Lebanon & captured millions of dollars worth of weapons, they must have done some major sorting when they started exporting.

We find Russian SKS's from Canada that are Arabic marked from the same period. Israel sent different rifles to different regions it seems, or maybe it was just whatever the importers worked out with them at the time.

(See Israel Cap-Sino-PLO Sticky for more info on the war and cap'd weapons if ya want)

Since we figure these are an earlier import (Probably NOT by much) I would assume these were also from Israel, but possibly a different batch. It could have been the ATF that said to add the "LB" to the "A" with Century's next batch, or Century just chose to be more specific, but I believe it was a separate batch.

There is no reason I can think of that the PLO would just receive 9's and 12's when aid was so plentiful, even from early 60's.

That sand in the receiver is identical to many reports of IC guns, in both Stoned's & Cannon's examples. The fact that Stoned's stock is sanded, and that Cannon's stock looks like it could have gotten the common IC red shellac supports them being IC. The sand looks just like Cannon's arab marked 12 mill right when I bought it, all caked to the gun.

I just found an 8 mill on Gunbroker with the same import mark, with matching numbers and similar patina, so I pulled the trigger on it. This seems to be a VERY small batch, as looking throughout other older forum posts and photos of older imported SKS's I cannot find any other examples. Not a single one. And my brain is FRIED after looking the last few days. I could be just missing them, however.

Here is the 8 mill. I decided to join the club.

Very similar Patina to IC's, like my current 9 mill, and your guys' letter series:



The fact that there are less than 10 arab marked IC's while theres about 40+ known, And since we've only seen 3 examples of these, means it's not enough to say they are NOT IC's because of lack of arabic marks.

These feature caked sand, matching patina, the correct era of production, ruby red stock, a sanded stock, and an import mark of the same era as the IC's.

I believe it's safe to say.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2015, 02:10:27 PM by Worm »

Offline Worm

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Also, I just remembered, a "Legendary bird" 6 mill popped up some time back on the broker, that had a very obvious ruby reshellac and worn patina. I should have bought it, but I didn't.

I never knew what the import mark was, but I'd be willing to bet it matches these.

6 mill fits right in between Letter series & 8 mills too.

Offline running-man

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Uh oh Mitch, LC is going to get after you for not pointing him to a possible IC 6 mil /26\.   :-X  cry1