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Agreed. A decent explanation although the terminology will further confound discussions.

I prefer  the term "Soviet-Sino" for the early Star stamp four digit rifles. And I think Sino-Soviet is still applicable for rifles made through 1958. (Especially given the odd 3rd year action that was riddled with soviet inspection stamps-- shared by rm but I can't seem to find the thread)

I'm waiting for his review of the most recent SKS Collector's Guide...
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Milsurp Hand Guns & Sub Guns / Re: Chinese M54 Tokarev
« Last post by Ret-Sarge on June 11, 2024, 10:35:47 PM »
Sorry Sarge, there is a known bug in the boards where anytime the image link to http: "imgbb . com" is made, it crashes the post and doesn't allow it to go through.  Correct links with ibb.co work fine though.  I've looked and looked and cannot track down exactly what's wrong.  Thankfully imgbb. com links are not often generated by the non-user imgbb upload button we have here or from people who have imgbb accounts.

I would say yes, the original font is different from the refurb.  I don't have too many photos of early sub year 8 T54s to compare, but here's what I do have (a few 9's in there):








The picture issue, I take the blame for that, I saved a picture from the internet and obviously it wasn't a supported format. No biggie, once I screen shot the picture, it changed the format and all was as it should be.

Definitely looks like the 9s and 6s in the first few examples you show.

I've tried looking at the right side of the receiver to see if there was signs of there being any ghosting there. Man that side was scrubbed harder than left side.

You can see grooves, and dotted lines in the finish/metal from the scrubbing. I swear i see a 5 and something else in another area. Then again I've been staring at this thing so much over the last few days, I think I found Elvis and the Area 51 Alien stamps also....LOL! I'm losing my mind.

Pictures 1 and 2 showing some type of artifacts in the finish.

Pictures 3 and 4 showing the grooves and dotted lines from the scrubbing.









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Heh, he says he made up a novel term of "Sino-Soviet".  Unfortunately, "Sino-Soviet" is an obsolete term that was used to describe the letter series /26\'s by the early collectors.  They were absolutely certain that these letter guns were the 1st made and hence the naming.  When we brought evidence to light that the letter series were in fact from the 1959-1960 period, that threw the whole "Sino-Soviet" special-ness out the window.  Confusion reigned, and in an effort to clear up the confusion, LC, GM and the rest of us at SKS-Files decided to call these "Soviet-Sino" carbines. 

Decent enough video.  It's too bad he threw in the confusing term though, that will certainly not help collectors going forward.

He doesn't mention how much he paid for it but does say he believes it is worth somewhere at the low end of the Trinity guns.  I'd suspect he's right if one ever went through a visible and high profile auction.  Most people still don't even know these exist.

Anyhow, it's a new S/N for the data board.  thumb1  Thanks Matchka!
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Russian SKS / Re: Soviet sks in BBC Spy tv show 1967...
« Last post by Matchka on June 11, 2024, 03:22:28 PM »
47:25 ! Sorry, couldn't resist.
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Milsurp Hand Guns & Sub Guns / Re: Chinese M54 Tokarev
« Last post by running-man on June 11, 2024, 12:00:20 PM »
Sorry Sarge, there is a known bug in the boards where anytime the image link to http: "imgbb . com" is made, it crashes the post and doesn't allow it to go through.  Correct links with ibb.co work fine though.  I've looked and looked and cannot track down exactly what's wrong.  Thankfully imgbb. com links are not often generated by the non-user imgbb upload button we have here or from people who have imgbb accounts.

I would say yes, the original font is different from the refurb.  I don't have too many photos of early sub year 8 T54s to compare, but here's what I do have (a few 9's in there):






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Russian SKS / Re: Soviet sks in BBC Spy tv show 1967...
« Last post by Boris Badinov on June 10, 2024, 07:42:34 PM »
Pretty wild.  Like William B Vogel in the other thread my first inkling was VN captured weapon, but you're right IC is probably a more reasonable guess. thumb1

I think a more likely possibility is that the rifles were  captured by British army during the Suez Crisis. Given that the Six Day war occurred in the same year that the BBC episode was aired (1967).
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Milsurp Hand Guns & Sub Guns / Re: Chinese M54 Tokarev
« Last post by Ret-Sarge on June 10, 2024, 06:05:34 PM »
Wow good eyes runnin-man, after about 200 attempts of holding a flash light and the cell phone (Camera) I was able to get some, marginally decent pictures of the ghosting.

I swear on the forth picture it looks like the ghosting of 53 after the serial number. I need to find a way to get better lighting and pictures of the ghosting.

Great photos!  Maybe if you had a way to (more) easily hold the light source static while manipulating/operating the camera you'd do better, but honestly those photos are great.  What I had thought was a 2 as the second numeral appears to be a 0.  I see 3010922 which doesn't match the newly stamped after-scrub number at all.  I wonder if the slide is the original part with that number and the rest was force matched? 

I agree with you that there is definitely a 3 at the end where the date would be.  I can't quite make out the 5, but it would not surprise me in the least knowing what we do about year 3 T54s in general.

If you had access to a machine shop with magnetic particle testing equipment, you would very likely be able to read that old S/N, possibly the factory if it wasn't too obscured with the new S/N stamp (honestly, it's gotta be 66), and the year (again, in all likelihood 1959) as clear as day since the scrubbing did not remove the bottom of the indentations made by the original stamps.  Indentations like that leave a very pronounced pertubation in the grain flow of the metal and mag particle testing is perfect for picking that up.

Did the fonts used, differ from arsenal to arsenal or was it a time period thing? Reason being what we see as a 9 in the SN ghosting is different than the 9 in visible SN, it seems to look more like the 9 in this SN.








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Milsurp Hand Guns & Sub Guns / Re: Chinese M54 Tokarev
« Last post by Ret-Sarge on June 10, 2024, 06:01:36 PM »
Test. Everytime I try to respond with a quote it doesn't post my post. Okay it's a picture thing that is not allowing the responses to post. Okay got it working, resized the picture and all is good again.
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Russian SKS / Re: Soviet sks in BBC Spy tv show 1967...
« Last post by running-man on June 10, 2024, 05:10:46 PM »
Pretty wild.  Like William B Vogel in the other thread my first inkling was VN captured weapon, but you're right IC is probably a more reasonable guess. thumb1
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