Author Topic: New 2019 type 56 imports at Classic tracking thread  (Read 53827 times)

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Offline running-man

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Re: New 2019 type 56 imports at Classic tracking thread
« Reply #200 on: January 03, 2020, 03:02:37 PM »
Here is the image of the import stamp.  I watched the "unboxing videos" from Classic and noticed the most recent was in a cardboard container, not wood. 

As for source, I will try to reach out to PW and see if they respond.  Otherwise, contact ATF for a FOIA manifest.  That takes months, but is what it is.  I like the idea that they came from Albania.  From what I understand, virtually all the SKS rifles were in reserve armories with very few in the hands of military and police, being long outdated in 1997 by the AK47.  Hence, most every SKS was looted from the armories and would have been part of the civil war, with most ending up in the hands of the KLA in Kosovo.  One source I saw indicated about 600,000 small arms were looted with only about 100,000 turned in or recovered.  If Albania is the origin, then it was part of history.

Stock has no serial number at all.  Pics of the rifle broke down and the finish cleaned up, wood looked pink which would suggest beechnut.  But, I could see wood characteristics of the original Chinese wood stock, so unsure.

Interesting that PW reserialed this one.  I suspect they opted to do this wholesale instead of the way CAI did it back in 2014 which was to only reserial guns with duplicate S/Ns that had already been imported & recorded by CAI per ATF rules.  Would be nice to build a rough order database to see how many they imported in this batch.  (At least 801 based on this one example with available digits able to accommodate at least 10,000 all the way up to 99,999 guns.) 

These being a newly seen import, I guess it's right to be skeptical that thee would be the same guns from the Foxtrot Skaneatles or IARMS imports.  Logic seems to dictate that since they are similar arsenal or S/N, in similar condition, with similar trench art they would be the same batch.  It'll be interesting to get some more concrete info.  A bit of Albanian trench art would be enough for me I think, the condition is too consistent to be a whole new batch of guns from a totally different country of (import) origin. 
      

Offline running-man

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Re: New 2019 type 56 imports at Classic tracking thread
« Reply #201 on: January 03, 2020, 03:11:26 PM »
We dabbled with some, quite in depth trying to get info, we got some stuff...but most of it's pre-internet info and not digital..this is just one list. https://sks-files.com/index.php?topic=2111.0

I tried several importers.. they will not release information.

Wish you the best of luck.. I don't think a FOIA will get info released, but hey, good luck in your venture. The Information Act may not apply to those nation's. Your dealing with old school Cold War communist nations.. and they won't release anything because some little American Act asks for it.
Yeah, Foxtrot was more than happy to answer my questions up until I got to the "Where did you guys import these from?" and then the door shut securely in my face. 

Shine: The FOIA route *might* get you something from ATF, but remember that exemption #4 specifically excludes:
Quote
Concerning trade secrets and commercial or financial information obtained from a person that is privileged or confidential.
The importer can deem this information a trade secret and the government, even though they know it and it's a well known 'secret', simply cannot release it via FOIA.

We are all well too aware of Steve K. (Kehaya) thumb1  I'll let RM or P32 address that discussion,  besides.. mom always said.. if I cant say something nice... zip it boy..  :)
Steve K is a good guy.  The book is perhaps a bit outdated (and he and Joe P have no plans to issue a new revision), but his first-hand info from sorting the initial batch of CAI Sino-Banians in the early 2010's is a very good read.  thumb1
      

Offline Phosphorus32

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Re: New 2019 type 56 imports at Classic tracking thread
« Reply #202 on: January 03, 2020, 03:33:15 PM »
As a scientist, I always like proof, but that is almost always in scant supply when it comes to business deals, double down on that scarcity of proof when it comes to arms business deals. Steve has definitely been a good source of first hand information on the Chinese small arms from Albania.

I agree RM that a carved "Hoxha", "Pristina" or similar trench art on the PW Arms imports would definitely be great but I can't think of another country from which these Type 56s are likely to have originated, other than Albania, especially given the era of manufacture and condition being consistent with the others. Of course, IO/TGI recently imported Mausers and Enfields from Ethiopia, so little pockets of military surplus small arms are still emerging from expected and unexpected locations; there is little that can be stated with 100% certainty.

Offline Shine

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Re: New 2019 type 56 imports at Classic tracking thread
« Reply #203 on: January 05, 2020, 12:36:50 PM »
Went ahead and filed a FOIA request with the ATF.  This is good discussion to find out what information is actually available.  Yes, there are exemptions but I cannot see that this would be one.  It looks like importers of firearms must complete something called AFT form 6.  This would very likely be a public document, just like your C&R permit and FFl.  Plus, all those conspiracy theory emails you send to your congressman.

https://www.atf.gov/file/11356/download

May be a dead end. Will you let know what I find.

Offline running-man

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Re: New 2019 type 56 imports at Classic tracking thread
« Reply #204 on: January 05, 2020, 10:16:22 PM »
Awesome!  I hope they release some good info to you.   thumb1

I'm always wary of the "We can get you this information, but to search for it will cost you $1000, do you want to send us a check so we can proceed?" line that I've read on the 'net from others trying to get info from other government agencies.   dntknw1
      

Offline Randy

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Re: New 2019 type 56 imports at Classic tracking thread
« Reply #205 on: January 18, 2020, 12:49:47 AM »
Here I am entering my second post. I just received a CA SKS type 56. I asked for best of ten, maybe I got it, maybe I didn't. What I did get was a 100% matching rifle from what I can tell. The only part that is questionable is the gas tube, I can't find any markings on it at all. FWIW I see a cartouche on the side of the stock. Whether it means something is also a question, the mark is a triangle with at least a 2 inside, there may be a period after the 2, I can't tell.

Here are the best pictures I can get with my phone. Yup, there was plenty of rust below the stock line and a little above as you can see. Very little bluing left but it has a nice brown patina that I like.






















Offline Phosphorus32

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Re: New 2019 type 56 imports at Classic tracking thread
« Reply #206 on: January 18, 2020, 08:23:31 AM »
Hey Randy, looks like a legitimate matching example with honest wear, courtesy of the Albanians  thumb1 If you could post some pictures of the whole rifle taken in daylight, it’d be great to see them.

Offline Direct Connection

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Re: New 2019 type 56 imports at Classic tracking thread
« Reply #207 on: January 18, 2020, 08:47:45 AM »
Very cool SkS with plenty of character.  That it to the range and let us know what people say about it  chuckles1

Offline Randy

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Re: New 2019 type 56 imports at Classic tracking thread
« Reply #208 on: January 19, 2020, 01:02:25 AM »
Hey Randy, looks like a legitimate matching example with honest wear, courtesy of the Albanians  thumb1 If you could post some pictures of the whole rifle taken in daylight, it’d be great to see them.

That might be a while, a witch's bare bosom is warmer than it is outside these last few days.

Very cool SkS with plenty of character.  That it to the range and let us know what people say about it  chuckles1

No range, I wander out behind the barn and have my choice, west for 25yards or east for 100yards. I very seldom shoot with anyone other than my wife.

Offline Randy

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Re: New 2019 type 56 imports at Classic tracking thread
« Reply #209 on: January 19, 2020, 01:21:42 AM »
I still have some cleaning to do on it. It appears there is still a fair amount of lacquer on the stock, other than that it's beat senseless. It's got more scars on it than a whipping boy. No art that stands out though.

Offline 22srfun

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Re: New 2019 type 56 imports at Classic tracking thread
« Reply #210 on: May 11, 2020, 12:04:33 PM »
 Hello everyone,
     I just cleaned up a type 56 I bought from Classic last fall. I must be one of the lucky one, it's in great shape.
    Before I post pictures and write more I wanted to see if a new posting will bring this thread back to the top of the list. If not I'll start a new one.

Offline Phosphorus32

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Re: New 2019 type 56 imports at Classic tracking thread
« Reply #211 on: May 11, 2020, 12:08:39 PM »
Hello everyone,
     I just cleaned up a type 56 I bought from Classic last fall. I must be one of the lucky one, it's in great shape.
    Before I post pictures and write more I wanted to see if a new posting will bring this thread back to the top of the list. If not I'll start a new one.

Congrats! Yes, a new post bumps the thread back to the top of the list in the sub-forum. Feel free to start a new thread if you prefer  thumb1

Offline 22srfun

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Re: New 2019 type 56 imports at Classic tracking thread
« Reply #212 on: May 11, 2020, 12:57:57 PM »
  Thanks for the confirmation. I thought it might be best to stay with the thread specifically about the latest batch of Type 56's from Classic.
 
  I must be one of the lucky ones because the rifle I got is in very nice condition.
I bought it last fall and did pay the extra $25 for matching numbers and milled trigger guard. With the quarantine and dismall weather in the north east I had time this weekend to clean and reassemble.

  It was covered in a very thick coating of cosmoline. I simply scrapped off the worst of it with a tongue depressor and then painted on some odorless mineral spirits. The odorless kind is milky and thicker than regular mineral spirits, so it stays in place. Left it overnight and most of it brushed off reasonably easily.

  Then a reclean with regular mineral spirits and a blast of gun cleaner solvent to remove any leftover residue. Same thing with the stock. I don't know why people struggle with oven cleaner and hot bags in the sun when good old mineral spirits work so well.

  Underneath all that I found a rifle in beautiful condition with all matching serial numbers. No rust or pitting anywhere! I have attached pictures to show everything important.

  I found three things that I have questions on.

1. The pin in the bolt that holds in the firing pin has a small  triangular shaped "tab" on it. I have not seen anything like it on the other SKS's I have. (Recently completed my collection of the big 5) It was very difficult to get a picture. You might think it was a burr raised on the part but I believe it was intentional.

2. The firing pin has a divot on the end. It is not chipped. I can't figure out how it would get damaged in this manner.

3. The sight seems to have been painted black yet it is blued underneath.

   Please look at the pictures and let me know what you think.

 


















































Offline 22srfun

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Re: New 2019 type 56 imports at Classic tracking thread
« Reply #213 on: May 11, 2020, 12:59:38 PM »
  Sorry, the pictures were all upside right on my computer screen when I posted them!

Offline Phosphorus32

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Re: New 2019 type 56 imports at Classic tracking thread
« Reply #214 on: May 11, 2020, 03:43:13 PM »
I don't understand why anyone would use oven cleaner on a stock...will just ruin the finish and is hard on the wood.

Regarding the firing pin, that is a flaw or fracture and you would definitely want to be sure any abrupt edges or points are rounded off with high number sand paper or similar to hopefully avoid piercing primers. I've used firing pins with small fractures on the tip after dulling the edges without incident but that one is more extensive than anything I've encountered. The biggest risk is a pierced primer, and though I suspect it'll function okay, I'm not 100% certain that it won't pierce a primer even if you dull the edges. Depending on how risk averse you are, you may want to purchase a new firing pin. Otherwise, make sure you wear good eye protection (in general) the first time you fire it. In the event of a pierced primer the fraction of the gases that do bleed off in the wrong direction will primarily flow down the firing pin channel but they're definitely heading in the general direction of the shooter rather than down the barrel.

Not sure what you're seeing on the firing pin retaining pin.

If there's black paint on the sight leaf, it was undoubtedly applied by the Albanians and not the Chinese.

Great looking Type 56  thumb1

Offline Bob_The_Student

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Re: New 2019 type 56 imports at Classic tracking thread
« Reply #215 on: May 11, 2020, 03:48:32 PM »
Very nice, I'd be happy with that one.

It looks like your firing pin either took a bad hit from something or possibly a defect from manufacturing. I bet you get a better thought on that.
I can see the triangle on the pin but I wouldn't read too much into that, IMO. As far as the rear sight I think I may try to see if that rubbed off where that "glob" is. Not a big deal though. The sight is EP'd to the gun so I wouldn't switch it out.

These guys will have you in shape in a little bit and then you can disregard all my incorrect comments above.  chuckles1

Offline Larry D.

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Re: New 2019 type 56 imports at Classic tracking thread
« Reply #216 on: May 11, 2020, 05:50:45 PM »
You did alright.
Nice cosmo-worm coming out of the muzzle.
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Offline 22srfun

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Re: New 2019 type 56 imports at Classic tracking thread
« Reply #217 on: May 11, 2020, 06:00:36 PM »
   Thank you both for your comments.

   It may sound paranoid but whenever I first shoot a milsurp, I wear a full face motorcycle helmet. I figure it's cheap insurance in case something does go wrong.

   I will look for a replacement firing pin. I had the same concern about piercing the primer.

  It is difficult to see, but if you zoom in on the retainer pin it has a triangular boss that is above the flat surface. When  installed it sits near the end of the extractor spring. I thought maybe the Chinese version had this feature that other versions do not.

  I read that the 11 million series is where they changed to stamped trigger guards, smaller font on the stock numbers and eliminated lightening cuts on the bolt. Is this an early version before those changes were incorporated?

  Also, any idea what the "2" in a triangle on the stock means?

   Besides the firing pin i certainly do not plan to change anything. I'm happy just the way it is



Offline Phosphorus32

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Re: New 2019 type 56 imports at Classic tracking thread
« Reply #218 on: May 11, 2020, 06:58:27 PM »
  It is difficult to see, but if you zoom in on the retainer pin it has a triangular boss that is above the flat surface. When  installed it sits near the end of the extractor spring. I thought maybe the Chinese version had this feature that other versions do not.

  I read that the 11 million series is where they changed to stamped trigger guards, smaller font on the stock numbers and eliminated lightening cuts on the bolt. Is this an early version before those changes were incorporated?

  Also, any idea what the "2" in a triangle on the stock means?

Probably just a flaw. There is nothing unique about the Chinese FP retaining pin.

Yes, they transitioned to those features during the massive production year of 1966. Undoubtedly, just working to trim minutes from the total time of production per unit as they supplied Chinese PLA and Militia needs, as well as arming North Vietnam and other client states.

The triangle markings on stocks remain an unsolved issue but are likely in-process inspection markings. They are generally single or some double digit marks. Since Jianshe Arsenal /26\ and the main producer of Type 56 AKs and Type 54 Tokarevs, /66\, were the only double digit arsenals in the 1950s to 1960s that I'm aware of, and there are no single digit arsenals, it seems likely that such low number markings are inspection marks rather than marks of separate "wood-working" arsenals that supplied stocks.

Offline echo83

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Re: New 2019 type 56 imports at Classic tracking thread
« Reply #219 on: May 11, 2020, 10:18:28 PM »
You lucked out on this one; that's a fine looking rifle, and you did a great job cleaning it up. Mine from Classic was packed with Cosmoline, too.

Like you, I wasn't thrilled with my firing pin, so after some research I went to Sarco for a new one. I'd definitely recommend them. Affordable, quick shipping, and a brand new pin, too.