SKS-FILES FORUM

SKS Carbines => Unaltered SKS Rifles => Chinese SKS (Military) => Topic started by: GT_80 on November 24, 2018, 12:27:45 AM

Title: Help identifying my SKS
Post by: GT_80 on November 24, 2018, 12:27:45 AM
Picked up this what I believe may be a 1956 Sino-Soviet SKS.

It has a letter before the serial number, only a 4 digit serial, and has arsenal /26\

It has the upside down U shape on the rear sight as well, and has what looks like it might be a ishevsk triangle stamped below the rear sight.

The bottom half of the bolt and the rear dust cover has mismatched serials numbers, but the rest all match.

Has a jungle stock instead of a wood one.

I’m just wondering if anyone can help me identify it.
(https://preview.ibb.co/kHN1NA/FF327318-1-CC2-4-DFF-8-AF6-04-B7-C6-D0-FD63.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bYfXUq)

(https://preview.ibb.co/jXbBNA/D61-CFAE9-57-D7-422-B-81-DB-368-D6441-A9-E7.jpg) (https://ibb.co/m4CkhA)

(https://preview.ibb.co/gzGvhA/68-D62-AE2-CADF-4095-ABDA-AD01-B8-A7961-C.jpg) (https://ibb.co/eKxPaV)

(https://preview.ibb.co/dGJ82A/55033-E99-2-EDB-4-E6-B-A250-4797-AA7924-E3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fpugNA)

(https://preview.ibb.co/hZL5hA/04-D65-A9-C-A1-B8-4805-8288-6236-DC5-A907-C.jpg) (https://ibb.co/eU9y2A)

(https://preview.ibb.co/nfYEaV/A0-C1-EE6-F-062-F-4-BFF-9900-958-F3-FAB8678.jpg) (https://ibb.co/c9Zy2A)

(https://preview.ibb.co/i6HCUq/B5341207-C1-E5-440-D-B9-A9-6-E4-DF8-E6-D70-F.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nDC1NA)
Title: Re: Help identifying my SKS
Post by: Boris Badinov on November 24, 2018, 04:07:42 AM
It's a Chinese letter rifle: 1959-60 (possibly part of 1961).
http://chinesesks.weebly.com/195960-letter-guns.html

The fiberglass stock is a replacement. Originally it had a wood stock with a side mounted rear sling swivel .

What does the import stamp say?


Nice catch, btw.
Title: Re: Help identifying my SKS
Post by: Phosphorus32 on November 24, 2018, 07:45:39 AM
1959-60 letter gun made at Jianshe Arsenal. It likely has an “IO Inc” import mark near the muzzle end of the barrel.

I suggest you read the following sticky topic for more information.

https://sks-files.com/index.php?topic=360.0

Good find. Even though the “jungle stock” is a post import replacement, it’s a reasonably valuable find, as these stocks have dried up on the initial retail market and become rather pricey on the secondary market.
Title: Re: Help identifying my SKS
Post by: carls sks on November 24, 2018, 09:45:42 AM
hi GT and welcome. good to have you here. non matching numbers and stock will effect value , but still look like a nice one to enjoy.  thumb1
Title: Re: Help identifying my SKS
Post by: GT_80 on November 24, 2018, 11:16:47 AM
The import I think is CAI Vermont, which I think is century arms?

I am actually thinking of replacing the fiberglass stock with a more original wood one.

I paid $500 for it, I took it out today and put 80 rds of TulAmmo through it today and it runs perfectly. I think it was worth what I paid for it.


(https://preview.ibb.co/jdBkHA/C7-B13-E78-78-B1-497-A-99-C2-45832-FA781-F2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/diESVV)
Title: Re: Help identifying my SKS
Post by: GT_80 on November 24, 2018, 12:06:38 PM
1959-60 letter gun made at Jianshe Arsenal. It likely has an “IO Inc” import mark near the muzzle end of the barrel.

I suggest you read the following sticky topic for more information.

https://sks-files.com/index.php?topic=360.0

Good find. Even though the “jungle stock” is a post import replacement, it’s a reasonably valuable find, as these stocks have dried up on the initial retail market and become rather pricey on the secondary market.

So based on that thread, it looks like mine could be a 56 or 57 but it’s not a Sino-Soviet model because it is over 2000 sn and does not have a Tula star.

It is weird though, based on that article it looked like the /26\ was only added in 57 but those also had 6 digit serial number?

I do like that it has some mystery to it, and I may try to find a decent wood stoxk and try to make it more original even if the stock SN doesn’t match.

Matching numbers to me doesn’t matter as I shoot everything I have, they’re not safe queens.
Title: Re: Help identifying my SKS
Post by: Boris Badinov on November 24, 2018, 01:10:34 PM
No.
Letter rifles were manufactured in 1959-60. (Possibly part of 1961).

Read here for info on the letter rifkes:
http://chinesesks.weebly.com/195960-letter-guns.html

It was written by the same guys who started this site.
Title: Re: Help identifying my SKS
Post by: GT_80 on November 24, 2018, 01:33:22 PM
No.
Letter rifles were manufactured in 1959-60. (Possibly part of 1961).

Read here for info on the letter rifkes:
http://chinesesks.weebly.com/195960-letter-guns.html

It was written by the same guys who started this site.




That really clears it up!! Ok so 1959 or 1960, that’s good to know. I wonder if the letter correlated to a month? Like since mine is a J it means 10th month of 1959 ir if it is more random than that...

At any rate, I really like this rifle and I’m definitely gonna keep it, shoot it, and cherish it.

Thanks for all the info, and I’ll get some video when I can!
Title: Re: Help identifying my SKS
Post by: Phosphorus32 on November 24, 2018, 01:35:08 PM
1959: Letter Prefix /26\ marked guns. Stocks contain narrow font.
1960?: Letter Prefix /26\ marked guns. Stocks contain wide font.  First observation of large (1/4” tall x ~1/4” wide) font.  These guns could theoretically be lumped with the 1959 letters, and 1960 could have been a very light Type 56 year.  There is really no hard evidence pointing one way or the other, though I would lean towards major disruptions in Chinese Type 56 production as the Sino-Soviet split was entering full swing and China could no longer rely on easily getting barreled receivers supplied from the USSR.  This also can give additional meaning to the Chinese ideograph markings seen on the 1961 built carbines as they were now fully Chinese built.
Title: Re: Help identifying my SKS
Post by: running-man on November 25, 2018, 03:19:57 PM
Unfortunately, the term "Sino-Soviet" is now a misnomer when it comes to these letter guns.  That's a holdover term from the 1990's that persists to this day on many webpages and out of date books.  The term "Soviet-Sino" is an accurate term, however, as it specifies the specific block from S/N 0001 to ~2000 that contain both Tula star receivers and a Chinese S/N. 

As for letter guns, I looked for a pattern with respect to A, B, C being monthly dates or whatnot and there's a couple strikes against that line of thinking:


To have two different features on an SKS like this there was either a break in stock production and during that break something changed with the stocks or production occurred concurrently on two different lines with one of the lines having different stock properties than the other.   

It's a fun problem to think about, the Chinese were certainly going through quite a transition during the Sino Soviet split so it's not necessarily unexpected to see the abrupt changes in serial numbers from 3 million -> letter - > 6 million
Title: Re: Help identifying my SKS
Post by: GT_80 on November 26, 2018, 12:22:25 PM
I picked up a wooden stock off Armslist for a good price, even though it was a re-arsenaled stock with an original S/N marked through and a new one stamped, I really am not a fan of fiberglass stocks from the 1970's - just have this thought in my mind that it would splinter into my choulder some day... I know thats probably not a reality, I am just not fond of them. If anyone is interested, I will probably sell the jungle stock.
Title: Re: Help identifying my SKS
Post by: Phosphorus32 on November 26, 2018, 12:47:00 PM
I agree with your latter assessment of reality, that neither fiberglass nor wood stocks will ever splinter into your shoulder.

From the description, it sounds like you found a Russian stock, which should fit your long-lug threaded barrel early Type 56.
Title: Re: Help identifying my SKS
Post by: echo1 on November 27, 2018, 01:09:23 AM
You shouldn't sell the glass furniture, but I'd be interested. PAX
Title: Re: Help identifying my SKS
Post by: GT_80 on December 05, 2018, 09:38:51 AM
well, I got my new stock in last week, and spent about 2 hours using medium-fine steel wool to sand the factory finish off because I didn't want to get rid of the knicks and character, just take the rest of the already flaking off finish down to wood. Once I got all that off, I liberally applied a couple coats of Tung oil, letting it soak in between coats until I was happy with the color and look.

I let it dry for 2 days, wiped it down, then cleaned my sks from previous trip to the range, and tried to put the wood stock on... Well, appraently, a Russian sks stock from a spike bayonet gun will not work on a Chinese SKS with a blade bayonet... the cross bolt was about 3/32 too far back and too high in the stock, and obviosly the slot for the bayonet is wrong, which I knew already... I spend a fair amount of time trying to wiggle the action into the stock, and it was rocking on the cross bolt.

so now I have a cool battle worn looking refinished wood SKS stock I'm selling, and the search for a more-correct wood stock for my rifle continues :(

(https://www.mytractorforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2350435&d=1544020193)
   
(https://www.mytractorforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2350437&d=1544020193)

(https://www.mytractorforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2350439&d=1544020193)

Title: Re: Help identifying my SKS
Post by: running-man on December 05, 2018, 02:22:34 PM
Well, appraently, a Russian sks stock from a spike bayonet gun will not work on a Chinese SKS with a blade bayonet... the cross bolt was about 3/32 too far back and too high in the stock, and obviosly the slot for the bayonet is wrong, which I knew already...

Unfortunately, despite what the seller may have told you, you've got a Chinese SKS stock there.  Russians didn't use that wood nor side sling swivels. A true Russian stock would have fit your Chinese letter gun like a glove.

The Chinese stock could be made to work, but it requires some heavy material removal from the crossbolt.  I think you're better off doing what you plan to do, sell the stock and get a long barrel lug / blade bayo stock.

Moral of the story is to fit check on the gun before you put the hours in to make it look exactly like you want it.  As long as you had fun and learned a bit, it was time well spent in my opinion!!   thumb1
Title: Re: Help identifying my SKS
Post by: GT_80 on December 06, 2018, 09:40:03 AM
Well, appraently, a Russian sks stock from a spike bayonet gun will not work on a Chinese SKS with a blade bayonet... the cross bolt was about 3/32 too far back and too high in the stock, and obviosly the slot for the bayonet is wrong, which I knew already...

Unfortunately, despite what the seller may have told you, you've got a Chinese SKS stock there.  Russians didn't use that wood nor side sling swivels. A true Russian stock would have fit your Chinese letter gun like a glove.

The Chinese stock could be made to work, but it requires some heavy material removal from the crossbolt.  I think you're better off doing what you plan to do, sell the stock and get a long barrel lug / blade bayo stock.

Moral of the story is to fit check on the gun before you put the hours in to make it look exactly like you want it.  As long as you had fun and learned a bit, it was time well spent in my opinion!!   thumb1

I agree, time well spent. I only paid $35 plus shipping, and about $9 for the Tung oil, and I was just watching TV while working on it, so nothing really lost... If I break even on this stock I'll be happy. If not, it will look cool as a wal hanger... If my wife lets me :)
Title: Re: Help identifying my SKS
Post by: GT_80 on December 15, 2018, 04:30:47 PM
Well, I sold my wood stock that didn’t fit, and ended up picking up what I believe is a Russian stock that actually fits. It was made for a blade style bayonet, and has the crossbolt in the correct spot.

Took me 5 minutes to swap everything over, and I love how it looks.  I put my fiberglass jungle on eBay and I’ll see if it sells. I think these rifles look much better with a little more beefy stock.
Title: Re: Help identifying my SKS
Post by: GT_80 on December 15, 2018, 10:49:33 PM
Here are some pics of my SKS in its new furniture. I’m fairly certain this one is a Russian stock based on the wood looking pretty identical to what my Mosins have, and the shape is a little less defined which I have found come with Russian guns as well.

It has a lot of markings, the original serial was struck out with x’s and a new one was stamped in. The new one even though it has 2 Cyrillic letter before the numerals, the numbers are a hundred plus digits lower than what my rifle has, so for me it’s close enough, and the finish is good enough that I may just leave it alone.




(https://i.ibb.co/ZmJkFJ2/59406886-4273-4-D03-B847-A66-AAC18617-B.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dgczVcm)

(https://i.ibb.co/vx0Rvc1/F16-E315-F-7054-4-D76-A43-D-A436-F2-F2-CDDE.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wN5jrdy)

(https://i.ibb.co/f0J5CZC/87249-B3-A-EF28-4598-9-AE3-29-D2-BFBD8224.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pXq83N3)

(https://i.ibb.co/PMqCDD2/49261-D83-FF24-454-C-A443-1-CE8-FF95-EFDA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/sC83WWT)

(https://i.ibb.co/Y36jpdJ/672-E8-A9-F-B85-E-4359-9-C0-F-D095-C18709-D4.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pxgXJKN)

(https://i.ibb.co/h2d7kvM/E6-E8-A536-D80-D-4047-AEE6-9-A3-AC3-CAE0-F8.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gtWjGC7)

(https://i.ibb.co/cCTH8wT/8548-A093-05-DF-4761-99-DA-B139-B32-CDB50.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7Ry5pQy)

(https://i.ibb.co/chbNwHD/78-C90-E58-33-AB-45-A2-934-B-ECB072-C3-DB0-D.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VYHvxZ2)
Title: Re: Help identifying my SKS
Post by: Phosphorus32 on December 15, 2018, 11:09:13 PM
Yup, it's a Chinese in a Russian stock, but they are both built to SKS-45 specifications so it works perfectly, as you found. I think it looks good!  thumb1

The Russians were the only manufacturer of the SKS to use Cyrillic serial number blocks. The Yugoslavians chose to use the Roman alphabet and none of the other countries speak the Slavic language group, so never use the Cyrillic alphabet.

Title: Re: Help identifying my SKS
Post by: Boris Badinov on December 16, 2018, 04:41:35 PM

(https://i.ibb.co/PMqCDD2/49261-D83-FF24-454-C-A443-1-CE8-FF95-EFDA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/sC83WWT)


Interesting, non-stnadard crossbolt.

Anyone seen this variation before?

Can you post some pics of the crossbolt inside the stock?
Title: Re: Help identifying my SKS
Post by: GT_80 on December 16, 2018, 07:37:46 PM
That’s the crossbolt from my jungle stock. This stock didn’t have one when I got it. You’re sharp though 👍🏻
Title: Re: Help identifying my SKS
Post by: GT_80 on December 16, 2018, 07:41:00 PM
Yup, it's a Chinese in a Russian stock, but they are both built to SKS-45 specifications so it works perfectly, as you found. I think it looks good!  thumb1

The Russians were the only manufacturer of the SKS to use Cyrillic serial number blocks. The Yugoslavians chose to use the Roman alphabet and none of the other countries speak the Slavic language group, so never use the Cyrillic alphabet.

Thanks! I know it’s not original, but I like this stock better than the jungle stock, and I like that it looks like a Russian SKS. I’m a sucker for Mosins, and this stock has a more mosin look to it. It’s tough to find a Chinese wood stock with the correct cross bolt placement and the blade bayonet lug, so this is the next best thing. Also, I like that even know the serial number has two Cyrillic letters, it’s not far off from my gun serial, and the upside down “U” on the stock matches the rear sight leaf, so it looks like it could have been some weird cross year / country model, even though I put it together.
Title: Re: Help identifying my SKS
Post by: echo1 on December 18, 2018, 03:22:13 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/PMqCDD2/49261-D83-FF24-454-C-A443-1-CE8-FF95-EFDA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/sC83WWT)
Interesting, non-stnadard crossbolt.
Anyone seen this variation before?
Can you post some pics of the crossbolt inside the stock?

I have a couple of stocks with that bolt (wood & glass), and a couple in my spares heap. The threaded side can have be "flat"  versus curved profile and are finished a little more coarse. Other than that, they appear the same demensionally. PAX
Title: Re: Help identifying my SKS
Post by: Matchka on January 09, 2019, 02:30:35 AM
Nice one! I'll bet that the crossbolt was a 'non-standard' arsenal replacement for a parts inventory shortage.