SKS-FILES FORUM
SKS Carbines => Unaltered SKS Rifles => Albanian SKS => Topic started by: Bob_The_Student on November 18, 2018, 07:30:25 PM
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This appears to me to be original but again I defer to all of you. It's in real nice shape and from what I have read and seen this may be rear for it's condition. Please let me know. Thanks
Some pitting on the bolt carrier. And rust in knurling of bayonet. Other than that it appears really nice condition. Thoughts please as far as any issues or originality. Thanks
(https://preview.ibb.co/hVDN0L/IMG-4975.jpg) (https://ibb.co/f4c4Ef)
(https://image.ibb.co/mpJpfL/IMG-4976.jpg) (https://ibb.co/c5bLn0)
(https://preview.ibb.co/fSXFLL/IMG-4977.jpg) (https://ibb.co/enEjEf)
(https://preview.ibb.co/eLdBuf/IMG-4978.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kNHRS0)
(https://preview.ibb.co/nDhRS0/IMG-4979.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jOxFLL)
(https://preview.ibb.co/kJWaLL/IMG-4980.jpg) (https://ibb.co/goSt70)
(https://preview.ibb.co/msgLn0/IMG-4981.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nPHt70)
(https://preview.ibb.co/jDvPEf/IMG-4982.jpg) (https://ibb.co/m9fruf)
(https://preview.ibb.co/nbW9fL/IMG-4986.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hVbLn0)
(https://preview.ibb.co/c2fPEf/IMG-4983.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jyLPEf)
(https://preview.ibb.co/kyWWuf/IMG-4987.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cOHh0L)
(https://preview.ibb.co/hg0fn0/IMG-4984.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bQdBuf)
(https://preview.ibb.co/kGafn0/IMG-4988.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dfLruf)
(https://preview.ibb.co/ixmxZf/IMG-4991.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fb9vLL)
(https://preview.ibb.co/fup6S0/IMG-4989.jpg) (https://ibb.co/es5PEf)
(https://preview.ibb.co/ecj6S0/IMG-4992.jpg) (https://ibb.co/f2ch0L)
(https://preview.ibb.co/fxuHZf/IMG-4990.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dPKjEf)
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To me... It looks like the stock was possibly refinished at some point... and it's missing a butt hole flap....which shouldn't be hard to find.
The pitting and what I would seem as inactive rust... That's just character to me.. oil it up and enjoy it. thumb1
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Very nice!
Dude, you might wanna go ahead and get another gun safe. Because the one you have now is about to burst.
The butt plate screws appear to be replacements, but I think they're pretty easy to find. Not sure if the lower trap doors are the same as the upper just upside down, but if they are the same it will also be easy to replace.
Nice catch. You dont see many Albanian stocks in that condition.
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nice one Bob. thumb1
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I wonder about the stock a bit. The grasping grooves look sharp but the finish looks so smooth for an Albanian :))
Regardless, it's an Albanian. They don't grow on trees. thumb1
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Nice piece. I also think the stock was prettied up with a light abrasive, such as bronze wool or scotch-brite pad, but not aggressively sanded.
Looks like original matching parts. Not easy to find a whole one.
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Regarding the stock responses... Why do you guys think that it's been "touched up" (my term). What should I be looking at to know that it have been even slightly "touched up".
*For those of you that are not on GunBoards I ask a lot of questions. My "the_student" part of my name is my "FLASHING LIGHT/ BEACON" that I'm trying to learn. So be warned, I ask a lot (a lot) of questions. When I post a rifle I'm trying to learn about it. I have bought several rifles so I have a "living example" and at the same time hope I'm scoring a decent collectible. Just FYI.
Martin08 and Boris Badinov have been helping me, quite a bit, with their responses and examples for the most part. But there is another couple dozen or so that have also helped me out quite a bit also. Some of you know this as you are on both forums.
So thank you for all the input.
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Can you post some more close up photos of the stock?
Albanian stocks in this condition are extremely uncommon. If it wasn't caked and crammed with cosmoline when you got it, theres a possibility that the stock has been refinished (at least to some extent).
It very well could have been touched up PRE- or POST import. More photos of the stock might reveal clues about the finish.
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Check out the finish on this Sino-Albanian letter rifle.
https://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?669354-E-Letter-Type-56-Great-Leap-Gun-All-matching-Refurb-Afield-(-)-HR-pics-added
The above linked letter rifle has very obviously been refinished. But the condition of the finish --especially at the stock fore end and hand guard -- indicate that the finish was done many years prior to import while it was still in Albanian hands.
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What triggered my "refinished stock" response was the stock serial number stamp.. to me it looks to have been stained, usually the serial is not darker then the surrounding wood, a stain of some type would darken the numbers.
(https://preview.ibb.co/kJWaLL/IMG-4980.jpg) (https://ibb.co/goSt70)
Here is an example of what I think of when I think of an unaltered stock serial...
(https://preview.ibb.co/eg4e98/21_SN_stock.jpg)
To me with the finish sheen and the dark numbers it looks like it has been as you say.... touched up... Some good photos in natural sunlight would be great and help. Besides..if I'm wrong about it, no harm, no foul.....I'm used to being wrong.. I've been wrong everyday for 24 years, cause I'm married... for now... :o chuckles1
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What triggered my "refinished stock" response was the stock serial number stamp.. to me it looks to have been stained, usually the serial is not darker then the surrounding wood, a stain of some type would darken the numbers.
I agree with GM here. (did I just say that?!?) A stock that clean and smooth just shouldn't have such dark S/N stampings. Beat all to hell and soaked in grease for 50 years in storage yes, but that's just not what I'm seeing in the pictures. The missing trapdoor is problematic too. Sure it could have been removed for simple cleaning purposes by someone in the states, but if they went to that much trouble, how is it that the grooves in the S/N stamping are still filthy? Usually OCD oriented collectors who would pull off a buttplate to clean the stock would never lose a trapdoor and would also be in there with toothpicks cleaning any gunk out of the major crevices.
Here are some more examples of stocks I'd consider to be relatively unmolested:
(https://image.ibb.co/kT4mK5/0345-stock.jpg)
(https://image.ibb.co/f4vhsQ/03210-stock.jpg)
(https://image.ibb.co/dAdDz5/02033-stock.jpg)
(https://image.ibb.co/i24Wmk/01274-stock.jpg)
(https://image.ibb.co/hib0e5/0202-stock.jpg)
(https://image.ibb.co/k1u8XQ/0138-stock.jpg)
(https://image.ibb.co/h3fhsQ/0003-stock.jpg)
There's a pretty notable difference in the finish between these and yours.
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The butt plate screws appear to be replacements, but I think they're pretty easy to find. Not sure if the lower trap doors are the same as the upper just upside down, but if they are the same it will also be easy to replace.
If I remember correctly, the two trapdoors within an Albanian are indeed slightly different from one another with respect to the size of the hinge base loop that the buttplate screw goes through. One of the doors is a direct replacement with a Chinese door and the other can be made to work with a little bit of custom fitment. Just one of those idiosyncrasies with the Albanians that don't get talked about all that much. dntknw1
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OK, now it's making sense to me and your knowledge is what I seek. Now I shouldn't make that mistake again.
So my "hopeful original" is a refurb? light refurb?
What would a true value be in this condition?
I think the stock question is settled but if you guys want more photos let me know I will post. Thanks for the help. Living and Learning.
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Looks like someone stripped the finish, not part of a refurb process, as no new shellac was introduced.
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The butt plate trap door was in stock, just stuck open. However, it appears the spring on it is suspect. It works fine if I don't tighten the butt plate screws down all the way which leads to the plate being loose. So I have (2) questions about this. 1. Can these trap door springs be changed (I've seen just the springs)? 2. Where can I find surplus ANY SKS parts I have found a few websites but they don't have much. As mentioned above the trapdoors are different sizes that fit the Albanians.
Also looking for cleaning rod. The cleaning rod in this gun was a cleaning rod that was "cut to fit" so it just had a rod sitting there, no threads. I think somewhere someone told me I can use any cleaning rod is that true? Just grab a 17" cleaning rod? If anyone has a place to look for this also I appreciate the info. Obviously I see them on Ebay but waiting to hear what route is best. Thanks
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It's a good looking rifle regardless of previous wood work. At least it wasn't too heavy handed. You're amassing some nice iron there buster. PAX
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Good early morning all!
Just wondering do you guys think this refinish could've of been done by Albanian arsenal? The reason I ask I'm paging through ended auctions to look at various guns (aka study) and I see this specimen with almost the same looking finish job. Just wondering if perhaps the stock was lightly touched by the arsenal or others are very good at doing the same type of light refinish to mimic each other. Thanks
Here is photo of stock from ended auction: (Just fyi it went for $610 I don't know what fees where)
(https://i.ibb.co/t4fqpgY/Screen-Shot-2018-12-07-at-4-29-44-AM.png) (https://ibb.co/6mhH0zD)
then mine for your comparison pleasure:
(https://i.ibb.co/GpKZHHJ/IMG-4980.jpg) (https://ibb.co/02g0ssX)
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Just what I see, it gets done alot more than people think. Yes, I would say both have been retouched here in the states. Why....Albania was a dirt poor nation, they pissed off Russia, later they pissed off China, so there was no real $$$$ backing, they was broke..... they were a function over looks, why blow money making nice pretty refurbs, when they were going to just get torn up in the field with use and that money could be spent keeping the gun operational. Usually if and when they did refurb one, it possibly got a no number new stock and non native made parts, no number replacement stocks are fairly common, they were imported way back when Albanian rifles first entered the US. Lots of SKS rifles were floating around the area during this time, like I said, I have an Albanian with a Yugoslavian numbered bolt and another one with a Russian top cover.
As RM showed above typically the numbers were not dark and stain filled, Albania didn't stain stocks, they were coated in an orangish shellac based finish and serials stamped in light colored finish and wood later after assembly. Another prime example is Romania, the same deal, another little dirt poor commie nation, Romanian stocks are typically beat to hell, have little if any finish left and covered in nicks and bumps. When I see a pretty, shiny, fluff and buffed Romanian SKS, I really question it, sure....they do exist, but are very few and far between.
In our culture....guns have to be pretty and aesthetically pleasing, numbers have to match, no one wants a ugly betty beater rifle, sure, pretty matching rifles sell unless they have bringback papers, bring backs usually dont get touched. And very few people will go out of their way to buy an ugly, beat to death, maybe mismatched rifle. So....refinishing happens, love it or hate it, it happens, just like humping of M1 Garands and carbines happens, (Humping: the art of taking a arsenal mismatched rifle and making it totally maker matching to increase value) it can vary from just a scrub down of dirt, to just touching up finish, to a full sand, steam out the bumps and nicks and apply some goofy Home Depot/Lowes finish. but in the end, it will be "sharp" looking and typically at some point flipped for increased profit.
This would be deemed an ugly betty... still has a little finish and rough as a cob, and it's a replacement no number stock
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/n699r5uwa5uirkx/SAM_2538_zps8xusu1or.jpg?dl=0)
Close up of the butt stock
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/o40wb7b0mkjsr1i/SAM_2553_zpshd4qvxwk.jpg?dl=0)
Another...this is a Romanian example.. little if any finish remains
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/y0ime692c41o5ug/SAM_1408_zps95b7c863.jpg?dl=0)
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I personally think both were refinished in the states. Neither has what I'd consider to be a typical Albanian finish. It's definitely one of those things where it will never be proven to 99.999% certainty either way, but in the court of public opinion, both those Albanians have issues that would cause many collectors to shy away.
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I personally think both were refinished in the states. Neither has what I'd consider to be a typical Albanian finish. It's definitely one of those things where it will never be proven to 99.999% certainty either way, but in the court of public opinion, both those Albanians have issues that would cause many collectors to shy away.
True. But with the supply gone, regardless of accuracy of condition or price, you snooze you lose. Others MAY show up at some point, but how much time do you have to wait. In the 10 years I've been screwing around with SKSs, I'd never seen an Alby in person. Then a couple years ago, 2 showed up at my LGS within 6 months, and I swooped in on them fast. A 3rd showed up a little later on Calguns and I jumped on that guy too, refinished but good looking and the cheapest of the 3. PAX
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I personally think both were refinished in the states. Neither has what I'd consider to be a typical Albanian finish. It's definitely one of those things where it will never be proven to 99.999% certainty either way, but in the court of public opinion, both those Albanians have issues that would cause many collectors to shy away.
True. But with the supply gone, regardless of accuracy of condition or price, you snooze you lose. Others MAY show up at some point, but how much time do you have to wait. In the 10 years I've been screwing around with SKSs, I'd never seen an Alby in person. Then a couple years ago, 2 showed up at my LGS within 6 months, and I swooped in on them fast. A 3rd showed up a little later on Calguns and I jumped on that guy too, refinished but good looking and the cheapest of the 3. PAX
There again.....and this is from watching this crap come and go for almost 20 years.... so please don't take offence.. not everyone goes after the same things.. some collectors will sit back and wait and snipe their items, others will bite and buy the first thing dangled in front of them, it's this diversity that makes everyones wants, desires and collections different. Some will buy to fill a blank in a collection until another higher quality variant shows up later, then they sell off the lower end one, while others are driven purely by economic reasons, some value having a lower grade cheaper version they could shoot guilt free and use vs. a high dollar expensive version they are scared too touch, much less, chamber a round in, then, you have some who like having both, a range beater and a pristine safe queen example. Then there are those who are simply just grateful to be able to own an intriguing piece of history from the Cold War or any other known conflict in our history, regardless of whether or not it has been refinished or in great condition.
One thing is for sure, one will always show up as time goes on, it's simple statistics, even the holy grail uber rare North Koreans, NVA and East Germans show up from time to time. Try as one might, no one person can cover and monitor every single auction, or monitor the behind scenes of a gun forum or behind the dumpster private sale, for every one you don't see for sale, there is one being sold somewhere. It may not be today, next week or this year, but given the statistics, one will be available eventually, it's a matter of having patience, being in the right place at the right time and then having the cash to back up the purchasers desire to own it.
I think price played a big part in the final sale price of the two shown, if you back through RM's old auction listings from time gone by, some I guess you could say, "as issued" were selling for 650-700 and up, while others that were refinished were somewhat less. Granted, an Albanian carries a signifiant premium to begin with as it should, given their rarity and uniqueness, but, unaltered ones typically will carry a slightly higher premium than a refinished one...much like most other surplus weapons on the market, i.e.....a Russian SKS, most "as issued" variants carry a premium over a typical refurb.
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I personally think both were refinished in the states. Neither has what I'd consider to be a typical Albanian finish. It's definitely one of those things where it will never be proven to 99.999% certainty either way, but in the court of public opinion, both those Albanians have issues that would cause many collectors to shy away.
True. But with the supply gone, regardless of accuracy of condition or price, you snooze you lose. Others MAY show up at some point, but how much time do you have to wait. In the 10 years I've been screwing around with SKSs, I'd never seen an Alby in person. Then a couple years ago, 2 showed up at my LGS within 6 months, and I swooped in on them fast. A 3rd showed up a little later on Calguns and I jumped on that guy too, refinished but good looking and the cheapest of the 3. PAX
There again.....and this is from watching this crap come and go for almost 20 years.... so please don't take offence.. not everyone goes after the same things.. some collectors will sit back and wait and snipe their items, others will bite and buy the first thing dangled in front of them, it's this diversity that makes everyones wants, desires and collections different. Some will buy to fill a blank in a collection until another higher quality variant shows up later, then they sell off the lower end one, while others are driven purely by economic reasons, some value having a lower grade cheaper version they could shoot guilt free and use vs. a high dollar expensive version they are scared too touch, much less, chamber a round in, then, you have some who like having both, a range beater and a pristine safe queen example. Then there are those who are simply just grateful to be able to own an intriguing piece of history from the Cold War or any other known conflict in our history, regardless of whether or not it has been refinished or in great condition.
One thing is for sure, one will always show up as time goes on, it's simple statistics, even the holy grail uber rare North Koreans, NVA and East Germans show up from time to time. Try as one might, no one person can cover and monitor every single auction, or monitor the behind scenes of a gun forum or behind the dumpster private sale, for every one you don't see for sale, there is one being sold somewhere. It may not be today, next week or this year, but given the statistics, one will be available eventually, it's a matter of having patience, being in the right place at the right time and then having the cash to back up the purchasers desire to own it.
I think price played a big part in the final sale price of the two shown, if you back through RM's old auction listings from time gone by, some I guess you could say, "as issued" were selling for 650-700 and up, while others that were refinished were somewhat less. Granted, an Albanian carries a signifiant premium to begin with as it should, given their rarity and uniqueness, but, unaltered ones typically will carry a slightly higher premium than a refinished one...much like most other surplus weapons on the market, i.e.....a Russian SKS, most "as issued" variants carry a premium over a typical refurb.
Well put GM, and I totally agree. My self, I don't do auctions (I prefer to see an item), but I do buy from the fellas on the forums I'm on, as there's a certain degree of trust there. I've done good, been lucky. My last Paratrooper was listed as only as an SKS (priced as such) and wasn't getting any hits. I was the first responder after a few days of posting, a PM followed with an "I'll take it". Priced high (to me) for a run of the mill Chinese SKS, but more than fair for a pristine blade Para in the box. What you say is accurate. PAX
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Yeah, very valid point PAX. I just meant that for a collector who wants pristine examples, guns with refinished stocks are place holders until another example comes along at the right price. Albanians are certainly not flying off the shelves these days. Hard to find, harder to find in original condition. thumb1
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OK, thanks for info gents. Appreciated.