SKS-FILES FORUM
SKS Carbines => Unaltered SKS Rifles => General SKS Discussion => Topic started by: teflon6string on January 14, 2024, 01:52:25 PM
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Considering a swap, but wondering if it might work (or not). Will the original wood stock and handguard from an old Yugo SKS fit directly onto an M21 Chinese SKS?
If not, is there a simple mod that would make that possible? (Let's assume I know nothing since that's probably 75-80% true.)
Thanks for looking. I appreciate the amount of info here on this (new to me) forum!
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Welcome aboard!
I assume you’re trying to un-Bubba a Chinese M21 in an aftermarket stock or replace a broken stock. Pictures would really help and a clearer understanding of your objective. We need to know which era of M21 it is, receiver-barrel junction, and thus the type of stock that it needs.
An M59/66 Yugoslavian stock will not be a suitable replacement. An M59 Yugoslavian stock would be far too scarce and thus valuable to use in this application and would only work on the early type M21s with the long lug threaded barrels.
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This old M21 is black on black on black.
- the bolt
- the bayonet
- the wood stock
- the wood handguard
First I should ask: It's not supposed to be all black is it? I've seen lots of pics, including M21s (I think), and I haven't found any black ones. So I believe this might've been done in someone's garage before I acquired it decades ago.
The hardware I can probably restore to white metal with acetone. IF it's not suposed to be black.
And that black painted wood I can probably replace with natural (doesn't have to look all that fine - I'm not going for a detailed restoration).
I have a potential wood parts donor in mind, that WWII era Yugo I mentioned in Post #1. But Yugo furniture may/may not fit on a Chinese M21. AND I'm also inclined to tell the Yugo owner to keep his original wood parts if they're worth something to him even in a closet (his SKS is currently in a modern synthetic folder).
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Depends.
Which arsenal stamp (if any) is on the M21? Is the barrel threaded or pinned?
And what type of Yugo stock? M59 or M59/66?
A threaded barrel M21 should fit into an M59 stock.
A pinned barrel M21 most likely won't fit into any yugo stock.
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Your M21 should not be painted black, there was no painting done on any Chinese type 56 as far as I'm aware. You're likely right in that someone stateside tried to taticool that carbine in his garage. You may find that removing the rattle can black is not terribly difficult and you'll wind up with a semi-respectable looking carbine. Depends on the amount of work you want to put into stripping and refinishing the existing stock.
And what type of Yugo stock? M59 or M59/66?
This is the main question you need to answer before proceeding with the stock swap. If the Yugo has a grenade launcher, the bayo groove will be much too long to fit a std. Chinese blade bayo (if that's even what your M21 has, again arsenal stamp or S/N will tell us right away what stock & hardware that carbine came with originally)
M59 Bayo groove:
(https://i.ibb.co/0hjY6x8/C35980-bottom.jpg)
M59/66A1 Bayo groove:
(https://i.ibb.co/P9MRsbv/H276682-bayo-groove.jpg)
There are really only three common types of M21's:
- "M21 No" with 8xx,xxx or 9xx,xxx S/N: Long lug, blade bayonet, all early style hardware.
- "M21 0296" with 709xxxx S/N: Short lug, spike bayonet, mostly late style hardware.
- "416 M21" with 230xxxxx S/N: Pinned barrel, spike bayonet, all late style hardware.
Let us know what you have and we can probably better help you.
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I might have a crappy one of any type once it's determined. Painted camo most likely, PAX
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Okay, you guys are great! Thanks for getting me pointed in the right direction.
Looks like my odd black thing has these characteristics:
- "M21 NOxxxx..." serial number, numbers all match BTW
- Blade bayonet with short groove (unlike the long groove M59/66A1)
- Long collar screw
- Already filthy 25 years ago
So now, I just need to learn what kind of rifle/plain wood stock the Yugo guy has and if he wants to trade/sell.
(https://i.ibb.co/1286Km8/IMG-7359.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XJS8pCS)
(https://i.ibb.co/dW0RNW8/IMG-7362.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6nRkKnj)
(https://i.ibb.co/SdZ9cDQ/IMG-7374.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jWj1z9V)
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Personally, I would be more looking into refinishing the painted stock if it is numbers matching. I would do as light a refinih as possible in order to maintain the SN on the side of the butt. Otherwise, I'd leave it just the way it is. Whether the Yugo is an M59 or an M59/66 really doesn't matter as it is both the wrong finish and the wrong type of wood for that rifle. IF you just have to replace the stock, keep that one and find an unnumbered Chinese stock for a threaded barrel that you can use.
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If the Yugo wood is cheap enough just get it to have for trade fodder and follow Greatguns suggestion. PAX
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(https://i.ibb.co/1286Km8/IMG-7359.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XJS8pCS)
Ahh you have one of the "other than the three common types" of M21's: M21 NO
These guns are a bit of an enigma because they don't show up all that often. The few we have seen generally look like this with the following characteristics:
Known S/N between N003481 and N028811, likely started at N00001
- Long lug
- Blade bayo
- Early RSB, early FSB, early milled gas block
- Early style bolt carrier
- Side swivel stock with "NO" as an integral part of the S/N
The S/N is no help in dating these, but from the hardware, we can narrow it down to between 1961 & 1965. More than likely these were built in year 9 or 10 after the M21 No 900,000 series...
(https://i.ibb.co/x7YgtV7/019595-receiver.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/Mhr2z8W/019595-bolt-carrier.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/MGYrz6q/019595-bolt-carrier2.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/Njk6qxd/019595-left-whole.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/mT6qMCX/019595-right-center.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/3m6QYSR/019595-right-whole.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/Dtk0ykZ/019595-stock.jpg)
The 2 in front of your M21 stamp on the receiver likely indicates a heavy refurbishment in China as we see this on some early Chinese letter guns as well. Is the stock original to the carbine (side swivel, matching S/N)? If it is then I agree with Greatguns: I would lean towards stripping the paint and refinishing it and keeping it with the carbine. The Yugo stock will work, but it will definitely not be "correct" for this carbine. Alternatively, finding another long lug, side swivel Chinese stock is your next best option for both fitment and "correct" aesthetics.
Just for grins, what's the import stamp on this carbine say? Many of the early M21s were Vietnam bringbacks, but most (but not all) of these M21 N0 & M21 NA carbines were imported during the very beginning of the boom in the late 80's. Lack of an import stamp, while not a concrete indicator of a VN bringback, would nevertheless point in that general direction and is worthy of discussion in and of itself. If the carbine is a VN bringback candidate, I would think very carefully about how to best preserve it & not damage it further.
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You guys are excellent, thank you!
Okay, here's what I got. The black stock on my M21 is not original. There's no S/N and the swivel is under the butt, not on the side. Nothing special to save there by trying to strip it.
That Yugo stock/handguard trade I was originally asking about may or may not work out. Hoping the guy with a Yugo (now in a synthetic folder) wants to trade his plain wood parts for my black wood parts since he needs a matching black handguard. We'll see.
If the Yugo trade falls through and I decide to search for any old unnumbered stock/handguard set (condition is not super important, just not gouged up), what specifically should I search for? Thus far, it seems this is my criteria:
- long threaded lug (will short work too?) I know I don't want pinned
- standard bayonet slot
Thanks again for looking!
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Interesting pictures. More close up pics of the bolt carrier group and bayonet would be appreciated. What’s the import marking on yours? You’ve got a rather rare Chinese M21 version.
Here’s my 2M21 N series, a possible Israeli-Capture
https://sks-files.com/index.php?topic=5383.0
I suspect yours was imported in a different batc, given the “CC” suffix, but I’m curious.
Regarding a Chinese stock, either short lug threaded or long lug threaded stocks will fit the barreled-receiver, but only the latter will have the foreend relieved for a blade bayonet.
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Good catch Jon, I had not even considered the IC possibility on this one...
Get's me thinking...OP is the stock for certain painted, or is the coating a bituminous layer? And yes, the import stamp on this one will be very interesting to know.
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I don't believe it has an import stamp. If it did, that would be on the right side of the barrel just ahead of the stock, right? And it would be something in English? Nothing like that here.
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It could be anywhere on the carbine. They are often on the barrel, but can just as easily be on the receiver or even receiver cover. Very uncommon to find a carbine w/o one and those are most usually bringbacks or Canada border jumpers.
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I don't believe it has an import stamp. If it did, that would be on the right side of the barrel just ahead of the stock, right? And it would be something in English? Nothing like that here.
Most M21's w/out import stamps here in the states I would assume are Nam bringbacks. On the other hand, P32's early CAI stamp might be indicative of being an IC & if that's the case, yours could be a Canadian border hopper. Canada got a number of Israeli captures in some time back but they were typically Russian, although I do believe I've seen some Chinese. The black painted stock is either bubba or similar to LC's Iraqi. Either way, cool gun.
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I sure appreciate all the info here. Never paid attention to my old SKS before now. Here's what I learned yesterday about wanting to swap out my (black painted) generic Chinese wood stock for a friend's plain wood Yugo stock.
In a nutshell, we didn't swap parts because:
- Clearance issue with that metal crossmember inside the stock.
- The Yugo bayonet and slot are probably 3 inches longer than the more common Chinese counterparts.
- The Yugo gas tube/handguard is very different, most notably the flared collar at the fore end of the tube (see first pic below).
Even if everything had fit, we decided that the Yugo matching serial numbers on everything (including the gas tube) will be good to hang onto if the owner ever wants to remove the synthetic folder and put the wood furniture back on.
Meanwhile, he'd like to get a Yugo-compatible gas tube/handguard combo that he can paint black to match the aftermarket folder stock. Or maybe a modern one like the Tapco/Pickatinny thing (see second pic), but those seem to be out of stock on every website we checked.
IN other words, we're hoping to get some ideas for preserving the original serialized Yugo parts (Tito-era we believe) and replacing the tube/guard with something generic or modern. Thanks for looking.
(https://i.ibb.co/wRRCbS9/IMG-8932.jpg) (https://ibb.co/MsspjcY)
(https://i.ibb.co/hYbQpNP/tapco-tube.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5Kmpq3N)
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His best bet for a Yugoslavian handguard and gas tube for his M59/66 is eBay.
We still haven’t determined if your M21 is an Israeli Capture or not, if the stock got the Middle Eastern black bitumen treatment or American rattle-can black paint.
Could you post pictures of the bayonet groove area on the bottom of the stock?
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That's good advice. I told my Yugo friend he'll have better luck looking for an old gas tube/handguard on eBay, Gunbroker, etc... and to be patient. He'll find one, paint it black and it'll match his synthetic folder stock. And he'll still have his original serialized furniture to put back on it someday if he wants. BTW, the Yugo bayonet and slot are 14.25" (another reason why swapping stocks wouldn't have worked for us - even if they did fit my receiver).
No more Yugo swap for me, that idea just didn't work.
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Anyhow, my M21 bayonet (and slot) are the far more common 12.25" length (pics below).
Bayonet, bolt and bolt carrier are uncharacteristically black. So are the stock and handguard. Just an odd looking M21 I guess.
(https://i.ibb.co/q9TMCVT/IMG-9163.jpg) (https://ibb.co/tcVMzFV)
(https://i.ibb.co/G3ZqLDC/IMG-9164.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Pz2dny1)
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And what type of Yugo stock? M59 or M59/66?
This is the main question you need to answer before proceeding with the stock swap. If the Yugo has a grenade launcher, the bayo groove will be much too long to fit a std. Chinese blade bayo...
Well the flare at the end of the gas tube (and the fact the stock won't fit) pretty much settles that it is indeed an M59/66 Yugo.
OP from the new photos I would say it's a paint job and not bituminous coated. Can't be 100%, but bituminous typically has a matte black, orange peel texture with drips and drops, not shiny and smooth like what you show. Black bolt would certainly be a candidate for an Israeli capture, but again without seeing it can't really be 100% certain.
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Agree with RM. The bayonet groove looks sanded and the black looks like paint, from what I can tell in the highly pixelated images :)) Nothing I can see that would indicate it’s a laminate stock.
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As requested, I tried to upload pics of my black bolt, black bolt carrier and black bayonet yesterday, but no joy. Oddly, pics have not been a problem here before. Was that maybe an issue on this site yesterday? Will try again later today, maybe different sizes or .png/.jpg format.
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Not to my knowledge. For whatever reason, the site doesn't work with the words "imgbb. com", so if the picture links you're trying to upload have that link in there as opposed to ibb.co it will kick you out from the post.
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Hmmm... these are just regular jpg files like xxx.jpg that drug into the drop box like my other pics before.
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No idea, should work just fine unless the photos themselves have issues...