SKS-FILES FORUM
SKS Carbines => Altered SKS Rifles => Projects => Topic started by: Justin Hell on June 02, 2015, 12:43:00 AM
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Coming down the pipe in a week or two, I have a barreled receiver on the way.
I finally will be able to do the dastardly things I have learnt not to do to matching guns...and I only need a few parts to get it going.
My question, how often do headspace issues come up when building a mixmaster SKS? I don't recall ever seeing gauges for this caliber, and the small amount of reading up on this gives me the impression that gauges are most often used on bolt guns. I seem to recall reading somewhere on that other board about using masking tape on the cartridge, but I don't recall the context and usage...
I have never had to deal with this before, and I am hoping that it isn't as much of a common issue, as the bolt is the most expensive part I need. I would hate to end up with a box o' bolts and and empty bank account with no positive results. Mismatched SKS's seem to be somewhat common (for other people) so I was curious if anyone has had to deal with this in the past, or if the SKS is forgiving enough from part to part where it rarely becomes an issue.
Any tips/tricks on dealing with checking and identifying potential headspace problems would be appreciated.
The whole project is open ended on a completion date, and operating on a shoe string budget so that drags the completion date out until I score the remaining needed parts for a good deal....once the parts are collected, and functional...I can put my bubba hat on. :)
I hope to cut to 16.5" and thread the barrel for a Krink style brake I have been itching to use. I am contemplating making this an optics only gun, as dealing with the FSB alignment doesn't appeal to me much....and my vision sucks. I am strongly considering a drill and tap type scope mount. I have given some thought to chopping a FSB down to make my own Prince50 type sight...as I have no idea what to do with the rear sight 'area' unless I go with a scout mount rather than a drill and tap type mount.
Current needed parts:
Complete bolt (obviously)
Op rod and spring
Complete recoil spring assembly
Hammer
Gas piston, and maybe a tube and ferrule if the NC Star gods don't shine upon this...
Bubba tools/parts needed:
14:1 LH Die and handle
Outside diameter tool to reduce the barrel after chopping (GG do you still have these?)
Prince50 front sight?
D/T mount?
Any suggestions/recommendations/guidance would be greatly appreciated....and hopefully this thread can eventually end with some unique SKS gun porn. :)
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Justin, I do not have those tools anymore. I sold them when I thought I was moving to CA. There was a place that rented them I think it was 4D Products, but you can also buy them from CNC Warrior. As an FYI, you have a few options before you concerning the barrel length, etc.
1. After removing the FSB, if it is not already gone, cut the barrel to 3/4"-1" in front of the first step in the barrel. Crown and thread back to the step. You will not need to turn the barrel OD down as it is the right dimension at that point.
2. If you decide to cut further back you don't necessarily need to turn down the OD because the diameter of the barrel around the 16.5"-17" mark is correct for an M15-1 Muzzle brake(.590" +/-), which you can get both the tooling and the brake from CNC Warrior. This would be cheaper than having to turn down the barrel.
3. Take the barreled receiver to a machine shop that has a lathe small enough to accept the barrel and allow the receiver to stick out the back end so they can cut the length down, crown the muzzle, and thread it all at the same time. Might actually be the cheapest route when all is said and done. You will need to remove the gas block and lower ferrule for this option.
As far as the bolt goes the head spaceing is all in the angle at the rear lower part of the bolt. It is much easier dealing with a new(NOS) bolt and filing it down than hoping a used one is going to work. I have been lucky in the past where bolts have dropped right in to correct head space. I have had 1 that I ended up having to weld onto the back and refitting. Don't ever want to go through that again because I had to re-temper the bolt.
If your action is Chinese get your parts from Omega-weapons-systems.com Their SKS parts are NOS old import Chinese(the stuff that's been around a while and not the newer more cheaply made commercial stuff). They also have probably the best prices around. They are old school though. Email him and tell him what you want from the SKS list page and he will tell you what he actually has in stock and what the total with shipping will be. Then you send him cash, check, or an MO in the mail and he will ship once he receives the funds. IIRC he has complete bolts and cariers.
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I have headspace gauges and have done it plenty of times... like GG says, try to get either a yugo bolt or a nos bolt, ir new bolt from tapco. It needs to either A: be set already and not require any adjustment, or B: have extra length enabling you to trim down.
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If you don't have a head space gauges, the SKS/ FAL type actions are about the easiest guns there are to check head space "without" gauges. I would suggest you get your self at least 3 or 4 different perfect shape unfired live rounds and a SAE feeler gauge set. Clean your chamber out spotless and strip your bolt down as naked as it can get :) . Insert one of the live rounds into the chamber and get the bolt locked up behind it. Now with the bolt pushed all the way forward against the cartridge, see which feeler gauge tip fits between the bolt and recoil shoulder lug in the receiver snugly, Write down that thickness indicated on the gauge used. Do that for all the different shells you have, do a bunch of the same brand if you don't have various makes. If your gauging everything out between 2 and 8 thousands .002-.008, You will be just fine putting rounds down range. The perfect average number to come up with on your gauges is .003-.005 and like they said above, if you can get the bolt to get locked up in front of the locking shoulder, you can cold grind or file a "tiny bit .002" off but in my opinion, that is the very last thing you would ever want to do. If your bolt is too long, your better off renting the 7.62X39 reamer from 4D and just hand ream a couple thousandths out of the chamber at a time. Bolts, like most hardened parts have the hardest material at the surface and as you go deeper into the bolt, the metal gets very soft compared to the surface. Why screw around with cutting into that bolt and throwing a reliability ? into the action. Hope you get a nice bore in that top end.
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clap1
Awesome info guys!
I cannot wait to get the parts in and get started. I kind of forgot about Omega Weapons Systems, as I felt pretty sure their list was quite outdated by the prices and the selection...but it seems like they got the site updated quite recently...so, I am gonna cross my fingers and contact him once I get started. Those bolt prices are so good, I almost want to get a spare.
I also for some reason have a couple of sets of feeler gauges...don't know why, I have never needed them...but that sure sounds like a better route than buying gauges I might use only once. I have done a similar test on my DB as suggested by RM before firing it...as it is a cast receiver, without the hardened steel recoil shoulder lug at all ...it is simply part of the casting. This raised some eyebrows...but I am happy to say after putting a couple mags through it...she still hasn't kilt me.
With a little luck, the FSB removal will go smoothly, and I can go the cheaper route suggested for threading. I am still on the fence whether to go optics only or to trim down a standard one to the sight only. I like the idea of cleaning rod nubs rather than a bolt on the Prince sight...and heck, they could be ground down at the same time the sight is bored out slightly to fit behind the step. Then again, I would have to get one pin just right vs. two or the 'luxury' of a bolt on system....decisions, decisions.
I really like the idea of a standard paratrooper conversion done nicely, with just enough barrel left extra for proper threading for the brake....Of course in a perfect world someone could design a bayonet handle that would lock to my brake...or a brake that could accept perhaps a Yugo type handle. Does enough metal come off in the threading process to allow a thread protector to be used with a reamed out bayo handle? think1
I really like bayonets...maybe too much for my budget on this. ;)
I don't have any research into the various D&T scope mounts yet...are there any out there that don't require cutting into the stock or is there just not enough meat on the receiver to do that and be both secure and low enough? I haven't deeply considered my stock options (hee) yet....but have one coming that I really don't want to modify in any way.
Because even for an aftermarket stock...in this case...it would be blasphemy.
Even if I was the Road Warrior
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Justin, I have all the below stuff available if you are interested in any of it for your project....
Receiver cover scope mount (surprisingly stable), scope mount that drills and taps into the sides of the receiver itself, Scout Scope mount, cheese grater, cheese grater with shell deflector, very heavy duty muzzle break, and a neutered FSB.
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/20150608_221042_zpsjhvmbwts.jpg)
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PS:
I am interested in a few of those leftovers you have there...for this and other projects/temporary bastardizations.
Those cheese graters with the deflector are the bees knees for policing your brass, even without a scope....even used that RC mount would look real nice on my DB, and be likely to have plenty of filing room...since I had to work on an over filed mount for over an hour to fit snug as a bug before, it just is too modern for my happiness...yours is the right era for the look I am going for on that one, it would look darn proper with a Red Star scope as opposed to the silly NC Star Rail thing it wears now....I won't even post pics of it until I remedy that issue. chuckles1
The scout mount also intrigues me for an option on this particular build since it is still open for imagination at this point.
If you have any needs I may be able to address, LMK...we could work out a swap perhaps...I have lots of leftover parts too. Otherwise LMK on a purchase price on what you have...and I will try to work that into my summer fun money budget. (What I can sneak into my bank account that wifey won't notice) :)
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Parts are coming in :)
Here is the barreled receiver...she is a bit unique, so I thought I would share beyond submitting to the survey...
It is what I am assuming is a 0226 but with a plain jane series of digits rather than the arsenal stamp. The machining is quite lackluster, and the scratches and dings I am assuming are manufacturing flaws, rather than damage...unless the bluing is really thick on this one.
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/DSCN2603.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/DSCN2603.jpg.html)
Here is the leaf, it appears to be time appropriate to the gun...
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/DSCN2604.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/DSCN2604.jpg.html)
Underbelly of said leaf, which has a feature I have never seen...while the normal area that is electro penciled is faint, but readable enough to know it isn't original to the gun...but, the slider actually DOES have the last three digits of the correct serial electro penciled on...slightly easier to read, but it is also very faint.
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/DSCN2605.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/DSCN2605.jpg.html)
A little bit of the rush job in machining the inside of the receiver...
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/DSCN2606.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/DSCN2606.jpg.html)
Here is a nifty feature I have only seen once before on a DP I saw last year...a cast gas block. It has a funky look to it huh?
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/DSCN2607.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/DSCN2607.jpg.html)
Here is the FSB....also possibly cast? The majority of the gun does not exhibit any pitting except the end of the barrel, and the FSB...which don't match each other. I am a little intimidated trying to remove this if it is cast...wouldn't it be more likely to break? I suspect the barrel pitting was caused by corrosive ammo and lackluster care given....the bore is a mirror.
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/DSCN2609.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/DSCN2609.jpg.html)
Finally, the BILLBOARD sized import stamp...a new one to me, but apparently known by the survey.
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/DSCN2612.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/DSCN2612.jpg.html)
I am finding it hard to win for losing when it comes to trying to make myself a 'proper' bubba gun...what happened to all the run of the mill Chinese? Do I attract oddballs? Ask anyone about my wife....she might be living breathing proof I do, because she is quite unique in her wingnuttiness. I should stop that, this was a Fathers Day present from her n all.... chuckles1
Luckily (I guess) so much is missing from this, I think I just might break out the taps, dies and hacksaw and make this project what I kind of envisioned....
Interestingly, the heavily filed upon ATI Strikeforce that came on my DB fits this like a glove...NONE of my normal receiver covers will fit at all, except the matching one I culled from the DB which was so loose I couldn't stand it, is just as loose on this one. Fortunately, I have a couple scope mounts I over filed, one now fits the DB like it was factory original...and another I have I will strive to make fit this one.
I am soooo glad to have some stuff to tinker with this summer. :)
Other than those damned National Magazine 10 rounders...which I still might just use for targets. banghead2
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Cool... A 1972 0226. Odd, but like you said the rest of the gun went bye bye long ago so I say bubba the living **** outta that thing. :)
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Ill have to ard ths 0226 variation with no [] to the arsenal list. Likely make it 0226b
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I just read the survey entry you did Justin. (Thanks by the way! thumb1)
This is a way kool looking gun! What does the bottom of the receiver and the barrel lug look like? Those bubble/gouges/pits on the side of the receiver under the S/N and arsenal stamp have me curious. I'm with LC, make this gun what you truly want it to be, you've earned at least that with all the ones you've managed to save from bubba!
I find it interesting that this one is a 0226. Here's an [0233] & 0233 with the same type of differences, only as far as the dating theory (as best I can figure anyhow) goes these rifles were made within ~1800 units of each other. Will definitely have to study this no [] subset of guns a bit more in depth to figure out what's really going on:
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/Chinese/rectangle/71_100742_receiver.jpg~original)
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/Chinese/rectangle/71_102407_receiver.jpg~original)
The second of these guns had a cast gas block too Justin. '71 & '72 look to be two years where they certainly seemed to use that type. thumb1
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Ill have to add this 0226 variation with no [] to the arsenal list. Likely make it 0226b
Oh goodie! I get to have a gun with the dreaded 'b' arsenal subtext. :)
I am going to have to bastardize this one, I have officially run out of wall space to hang SKS's....this one puts my T53 alone in the corner. I might have to start calling her 'Baby' rofl2
I suppose I could lose our dresser and just start another row though....
RM posted as I was writing, so here is that response:
Not much to see under the hood so to speak other than this wicked milling grain...
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/DSCN2614.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/DSCN2614.jpg.html)
It does appear to have been modded already to accept whatevah stock you want to put on it...I hate it when people do this. Note the 0 stamp too.
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/DSCN2613.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/DSCN2613.jpg.html)
A shot of the whole underside if you were looking for milling differences...
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/DSCN2615.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/DSCN2615.jpg.html)
And...just because having a long heavy piece of metal laying around the camper is a little dangerous for the feet...I assembled her in her gutless glory in excess crap I have laying around in my camper.....she will be pretty later, now she just wants to pretend to be a functional firearm.
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/DSCN2616.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/DSCN2616.jpg.html)
The project is already causing injuries...I got bit pretty hard when some pliers slipped when I was straightening out the FCG retaining 'spring'...apparently she spent some time being stockless. Despite the pea sized blood blister, and not being able to play guitar with my band for the near future...I got that sucker in. Winning!
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/DSCN2618.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/DSCN2618.jpg.html)
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That cut at the bottom front of the receiver was done to accept the position of the crossbolt made for a threaded barrel. It no surprise the plastic stock fit becuase it likely does not have a proper crossblolt thats fitted to go there anyhow. How they make them fit all sks rifles both threaded and pinned.
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Here is the leaf, it appears to be time appropriate to the gun...
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/DSCN2604.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/DSCN2604.jpg.html)
A very fascinating carbine, there is no doubt about that. It has some unusual characteristics BUT...someone tell me, has the "2" designating the 200 meter range been stamped upside down or is it just my eyes going south on me?! Before some of you deem me bat-crap crazy, take a look at some of the sights on your carbines.
That cut at the bottom front of the receiver was done to accept the position of the cross bolt made for a threaded barrel. It no surprise the plastic stock fit because it likely does not have a proper cross bolt that's fitted to go there anyhow. How they make them fit all sks rifles both threaded and pinned.
That's what I was thinking, field expedient stock fitting! :o Is anyone else wondering if this carbine was refurbed or assembled somewhere besides one of the more well known arsenals?
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Just as an fyi... Do NOT do this to your receiver to make a stock fit. The proper thing to do is take the material off the CROSSBOLT rather then the receiver.
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A very fascinating carbine, there is no doubt about that. It has some unusual characteristics BUT...someone tell me, has the "2" designating the 200 meter range been stamped upside down or is it just my eyes going south on me?! Before some of you deem me bat-crap crazy, take a look at some of the sights on your carbines.
I think it's just the fill causing your eyes grief Danny.
Here's a pristine one. Note the top and bottom of the 2 are a quite a bit different from each other on this one, but there is a distinctive tail at the top on both sights. Of course, the 3's look totally different. Maybe a different die altogether? I'd be very surprised if the range indications were made separately or individual. My guess would be they were stamped all at once with a die as a last step in the fabrication.
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/Chinese/5-1812772_RSL.jpg~original)
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I have noticed them vary omong the same version.... No idea as to whats up with that other then being made at a dif time and/or location.
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Running-man I agree the entire face of that leaf is too symetrical to have been done individually...no way! But with all due respect I can not see the 2 on Justin's sight being in the correct position with the rest of the numerals! The flat or bottom side of the number is facing the hinge of the leaf and the curve is facing the slide.
The example you have posted shows the 2 just the opposite of what I described.
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I think the rounded/curved part you see Danny is the "paint" filler smeared out of the groove. May have been "redone" by someone at some point also.
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No I'm sorry Cannon, I just cant see it being "paint" either! For now I steadfastly maintain that 2 us upside down compared to the rest of the numbers.
Just a few minutes ago I asked my daughter and neice to look at that photo. Without asking any leading questions I asked them to look at the rear sight and tell me what they see. After about ten seconds my neice replied "the 2 is upside down" and my daughter agreed!
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Lol... It does look that the way.
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Heh....the two does look upside down in the photo...but actually it is just kind of funky looking on its own...and I think the angle might have thrown you off. Here is a vertical photo....it does kind of look like more of a backwards S than a 2
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/DSCN2619.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/DSCN2619.jpg.html)
I think the fairly rough machining and possibly someone filling it in later with crayon or liquid paper might lend to the weirdness...even right in front of my face it looks weird...at the right angle it looks right though. :)