Author Topic: Request for Advice on Putting a Cross Bolt into a New Production Stock  (Read 638 times)

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Offline SCC30Arms

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For the Norinco SKS I purchased, I decided to order a Lucky Shot Wood Stock, specifically a Monte Carlo style one in walnut. However, there is no cross bolt in it. The sides of the stock have no hole for it either, though it looks like the stock might have slots for it already (I have included pictures below). I did not want to take the cross bolt out of the original Chinese stock that came with my Norinco, so I ordered a new Chinese cross bolt (still waiting on it at this point). I've never done anything like this before, so before I take a shot at this, does anyone have any advice on accomplishing this task? I haven't really seen discussion by anyone else doing this.

Images of the bed of the stock I'm working with (The green tape on the sides of the stock were put on by me to protect the stock while I work on it and not scratch it, again):






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I'm curious, was this purposely omitted by Lucky Shot? Is it standard practice for them to have the customer do there own drilling and fitting? Of the folks on here that have ordered and used Lucky Shot, I don't recall them saying they had to do their own drillng of the stock for the crossbolt. I wouldn't want to have to do that. Just my opinion. It's a pretty important step and placement error will give you major problems.

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Offline Greatguns

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Did you contact Lucky Shot and ask them if it is supposed to be in there? No aftermarket stock has one and Walnut is a lot stronger than Chinese Chu wood so maybe they don't think it needs it.

If it is then send it back for them to finish. The issue also will be whether you have threaded or pinned barrel which puts the cross-bolt in different positions. If they don't know what you have then they can't do that inletting or cut.
My Avatar is a pic of the real "Ghost" SKS in honor of xxxsks(joe). It is a pic of a fully decked out SKS in Capco hunter's kit. This was mine, the only other pic I had ever seen of one was Joe's.

Offline SCC30Arms

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Did you contact Lucky Shot and ask them if it is supposed to be in there? No aftermarket stock has one and Walnut is a lot stronger than Chinese Chu wood so maybe they don't think it needs it.

If it is then send it back for them to finish. The issue also will be whether you have threaded or pinned barrel which puts the cross-bolt in different positions. If they don't know what you have then they can't do that inletting or cut.

I sent an email asking about it and never got a return email. I completely understand why it doesn't have a cross bolt already in it, but I would prefer to have one in there anyway. I've already ordered the new cross bolt before I even made this post on this forum.

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Looking back through the old posts about the members here that used the Lucky Shot stocks, I saw examples of two AK-Magazine conversions. Like the "M" or the SPORTER, etc. Neither of the finished Lucky Shot stocks had the crossbolt installed.

And the same for a standard, as-issued configuration SKS example. No crossbolt used.

Maybe those owners could chime in and give their opinions & experiences with the stocks they bought. If they function correctly and if they are holding up.
I'd be very interested to see how they hold up without the crossbolt after at least a fair amount of rounds down the tube.

Glad you brought this to light, SCC30Arms!

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Offline SCC30Arms

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Glad you brought this to light, SCC30Arms!

Thanks. It looks like there is some interest in the process of putting this cross bolt in so I'll document the process as best as I can so others may benefit. I am also fortunate to be doing this particular part of my SKS project with my father who is a woodworker.

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You're going to want to mortice the initial small hole you drill into a square hole that will prevent the whole crossbolt from rotating.  Aside from getting the position correct in relation to your gun (and perhaps the depth and concentricity of the counterbore on either side) this is going to be the hardest operation as just a little bit of extra slop will allow the crossbolt to spin. 

The counterbore depths will determine whether the crossbolt nut holds the crossbolt snugly or whether the nut bottoms out as it runs out of thread and the crossbolt remains loose, I had a SinoBanian with a replacement Albanian stock that had the crossbolt counterbores drilled too deep and it was definitely loosey goosey.   

This is going to be a fun project, perhaps a bit of a nail biter to get the crossbolt 'perfect', but fun nonetheless.  Good luck!  thumb1
      

Offline SCC30Arms

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You're going to want to mortice the initial small hole you drill into a square hole that will prevent the whole crossbolt from rotating.  Aside from getting the position correct in relation to your gun (and perhaps the depth and concentricity of the counterbore on either side) this is going to be the hardest operation as just a little bit of extra slop will allow the crossbolt to spin. 

The counterbore depths will determine whether the crossbolt nut holds the crossbolt snugly or whether the nut bottoms out as it runs out of thread and the crossbolt remains loose, I had a SinoBanian with a replacement Albanian stock that had the crossbolt counterbores drilled too deep and it was definitely loosey goosey.   

This is going to be a fun project, perhaps a bit of a nail biter to get the crossbolt 'perfect', but fun nonetheless.  Good luck!  thumb1

Thank you so much for that advice. I forwarded this information onto my father who is doing the work on the stock (since he's a wood worker) and he appreciates it.

Offline SCC30Arms

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The new cross bolt came in today.  It appears to have just a little bit of a waxy material on it, maybe cosmoline, but it wipes away easily. Will work on installing the bolt this weekend.

However, before doing that, there is one question about cross bolts: what is the pin that goes through it on one end? What is it purpose? To clarify, I've included a picture with an arrow.



Offline SCC30Arms

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Also, I keep on reading about there being some kind of significance about having a pinned or threaded barrel. I check my barrel and it is a pinned barrel. Is there any significance to having a pinned barrel in relation to this project I'm engaging in with installing the cross bolt?

Offline Greatguns

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There is a 1/8" difference in placement of the cross-bolt between a threaded barrel and a pinned barrel. If you have both types of barreled SKSs remove the mags and and look at where the action rests on the cross-bolt. On a threaded barrel the cross-bolt on the locking collar(either short or long) in front of the receiver. Because a pinned barrel does not have the locking collar they milled a flat spot on the bottom front of the receiver and moved the cross-bolt location back proportionately.
Check the fit of the stock on your action. A snuggle, light friction fit is really good. You really don't want front to back play in the stock. The cross-bolt helps maintain front to back play as it prevents the action shifting forward during discharge thus assisting in recoil. The nominal measurement, from the back of the in-letting on the stock for the action(the fire control group[FCG] latch tang that goes through the stock) to the rear edge of the cross-bolt(flat portions facing top and rear), is 8 7/8" for a pinned barrel and 9" for a threaded barrel.

The tangs or pins on the inside of the cross-bolt that you drew the red arrow for is to lock the bolt in place on the stock and relief cuts should be made in the wood to allow for those. You want it to be tight as that helps keep the cross-bolt from turning. That part of the bolt would be on the left side of the stock. You do not turn the bolt on these, you turn the nut only otherwise, you will strip out the wood. The slot on the bolt is only to apply a screw driver to help hold the bolt still while removing the nut. Heavy duty snap ring pliers are needed for the nut removal, 90 degree work best. IIRC the slots for the tangs are at 12 and 6 O'clock. To be honest I'm not sure what RM is referring to on the squaring up of the hole on this, I have not seen that only round with the indexing slots in the wood for the pins/tangs on the cross-bolt.
My Avatar is a pic of the real "Ghost" SKS in honor of xxxsks(joe). It is a pic of a fully decked out SKS in Capco hunter's kit. This was mine, the only other pic I had ever seen of one was Joe's.

Offline SCC30Arms

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There is a 1/8" difference in placement of the cross-bolt between a threaded barrel and a pinned barrel. If you have both types of barreled SKSs remove the mags and and look at where the action rests on the cross-bolt. On a threaded barrel the cross-bolt on the locking collar(either short or long) in front of the receiver. Because a pinned barrel does not have the locking collar they milled a flat spot on the bottom front of the receiver and moved the cross-bolt location back proportionately.
Check the fit of the stock on your action. A snuggle, light friction fit is really good. You really don't want front to back play in the stock. The cross-bolt helps maintain front to back play as it prevents the action shifting forward during discharge thus assisting in recoil. The nominal measurement, from the back of the in-letting on the stock for the action(the fire control group[FCG] latch tang that goes through the stock) to the rear edge of the cross-bolt(flat portions facing top and rear), is 8 7/8" for a pinned barrel and 9" for a threaded barrel.

The tangs or pins on the inside of the cross-bolt that you drew the red arrow for is to lock the bolt in place on the stock and relief cuts should be made in the wood to allow for those. You want it to be tight as that helps keep the cross-bolt from turning. That part of the bolt would be on the left side of the stock. You do not turn the bolt on these, you turn the nut only otherwise, you will strip out the wood. The slot on the bolt is only to apply a screw driver to help hold the bolt still while removing the nut. Heavy duty snap ring pliers are needed for the nut removal, 90 degree work best. IIRC the slots for the tangs are at 12 and 6 O'clock. To be honest I'm not sure what RM is referring to on the squaring up of the hole on this, I have not seen that only round with the indexing slots in the wood for the pins/tangs on the cross-bolt.

Thank you so much for all of that information. Everything helps for when I work with my father to try and accomplish installing this bolt.

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To be honest I'm not sure what RM is referring to on the squaring up of the hole on this, I have not seen that only round with the indexing slots in the wood for the pins/tangs on the cross-bolt.

Uh oh, when I read this I began to doubt myself since GG is as knowledgable as they come so I double checked with some spare Chinese hardware I had laying around the garage.  I owe you an apology for leading you astray SCC30, I was 100% wrong with the square mortice! (I do have a gun that has a square morticed crossbolt, but it certainly ain't an SKS!, doh1 doh1 doh1)  The crossbolts are indeed round with 2 surfaces machined flat.

SKS crossbolts do indeed mount *exactly* like GG says with the pin you point your arrow to as the feature preventing rotation.  The 2 flat faced surfaces contact the front of the receiver and bottom of the barrel (or barrel lug) and nothing else. 

I took a few photos of a spare crossbolt, a spare Albanian Model 651 stock, and a spare Albanian stock that was built to be a fit a Chinese type 56 as a replacement to give you a feel for what these parts look like in unused stocks prior to installation:










You can see how crude the millwork is in some areas of both stocks.  I suspect the small holes drilled in the side to allow for the anti-rotation pin in the crossbolt are there to allow the crossbolt to crush the wood fibers and grab a 'bite' more easily. 

Once again, sorry for leading you astray on this one!  Look like I need to check physical hardware before I spout off.  :-[
      

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The way Rick explained it to me is he epoxy beds for the front cross bolt that allows sanding to fit if needed versus dealing with metal. Mine fit fine and I didn't have any issues with my Sporter conventional stock. I didn't have to do any fitting for a nice tight fit.


« Last Edit: May 11, 2021, 05:08:44 PM by Bubbazinetti »
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Offline SCC30Arms

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To be honest I'm not sure what RM is referring to on the squaring up of the hole on this, I have not seen that only round with the indexing slots in the wood for the pins/tangs on the cross-bolt.

Uh oh, when I read this I began to doubt myself since GG is as knowledgable as they come so I double checked with some spare Chinese hardware I had laying around the garage.  I owe you an apology for leading you astray SCC30, I was 100% wrong with the square mortice! (I do have a gun that has a square morticed crossbolt, but it certainly ain't an SKS!, doh1 doh1 doh1)  The crossbolts are indeed round with 2 surfaces machined flat.

SKS crossbolts do indeed mount *exactly* like GG says with the pin you point your arrow to as the feature preventing rotation.  The 2 flat faced surfaces contact the front of the receiver and bottom of the barrel (or barrel lug) and nothing else. 

I took a few photos of a spare crossbolt, a spare Albanian Model 651 stock, and a spare Albanian stock that was built to be a fit a Chinese type 56 as a replacement to give you a feel for what these parts look like in unused stocks prior to installation:...

Thank you so much for all of that information and the pictures. It will help my father, who is doing the woodwork to put this in, greatly.

Offline SCC30Arms

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Update. My father (who does the woodworking) and I spent the morning working on installing the cross bolt into the stock. We did get it in, but more work will have to be done on it to get it to fit right. Also, for how thin the walls are around the cross bolt because of the work, I err on the side of caution and I think it will put in a little after glass to reinforce things. When the project is completed and I make my writeup (I did take pictures to help follow the process) and present it here, my conclusions will center around this not being a job for your average weekend DIY sorts not skilled in woodwork or gunsmithing and that some aftermarket stocks for SKS carbines appear to not be ideal for installing cross bolts (though it can be done, it is just extremely hard and may not be worth the effort for most - but at least if you want to do it I'll present my writeup for any help it can offer them). I'm happy I did it, but there was a heck of a learning curve with this experience.

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Good deal SCC30. Looking forward to see how it came out!  thumb1
      

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Agree w/ RM. Post photos when finished.

Offline SCC30Arms

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Re: Request for Advice on Putting a Cross Bolt into a New Production Stock
« Reply #18 on: August 08, 2021, 06:29:44 PM »
Another Update. There was a lot more fitting required than I thought would be needed after I got the bolt in. However, once everything was fitted, everything was also tight. Today, I took both this SKS and my Yugo SKS that I restored in the spring to the range for testing. Both worked well, no piercing primers, ejection is good, no slam fires. The only things that disappointed me was 1) I wanted to adjust the windage on the front sight post, but for some reason my B-Square front sight pusher wouldn't budge it. and 2) While all this work was put into the Chinese SKS with this cross bolt and everything else, the Yugo SKS was on target without needing any adjustment and its original sights (this was my first time firing both of these guns) and grouped better than its Chinese counterpart. I shot at 25 yards with Tula ammo since I was just looking to see if these SKS carbines functioned, but based on that shoot (55 rounds per carbine), it looks like by Chinese gun would be shooting a 8-10 inch group at 100 yards and the Yugo a 3-4 inch group at 100 yards. I hope I can figure out what I need to do to improve the accuracy of the Chinese carbine (better ammo for one and I have some other ideas).

I already have the majority of my writeup for installing the cross bolt, so I hope to finish that up soon and to also take some good quality pictures of my completed carbines. It just seems like it is so hard to find time these days for these projects.