Usability of a "Chinese C&R Eligibility" cheat sheet

[running-man]

The question of "Is this Chinese SKS a C&R?" seems to predominate with much confusion these days (and is somewhat inherent in the most popular "What year was my Chinese SKS made?" question).

Would you guys find it useful to have a one page document that lists the known arsenals, known S/N ranges, known year codes, and then groups them into C&R and non-C&R categories?  I'm sure I could find an elegant way to do this on a one or two page cheat sheet.  I've been wanting to do this for a good while now, but with the advent of 1970 being the 50+ year old cutoff on Jan 1, 2021, there are going to be quite a few more guns than just the /26\'s that will be C&R eligible soon. 

If anyone has any ideas for how this might go, I'm all ears.

[astronut]

Heck yeah, that would definitely be a good idea to do!  Sorrry, but I dont have any idea of how to go about doing it though.  It would be greatly appreciated if you get it accomplished!

[Bob_The_Student]

20 thumbs up to that idea RM. If I can help you please let me know what you need.

[Greasemonkey]

Great idea...  now, which method will those who don't believe it or us use, large majority I'm sure, which will the ATF go off of and use. To be C&R both parties have to agree as well. We all know from our very own past there is extreme push back on our method vs. the great ones of the past, that's fact and reality. And at the time of a C&R audit... where does this leave an individual if the ATF says........ NOPE, this is NOT C&R!!!!


Devils advocate..

[Bob_The_Student]

Just thought of a great idea. RM, can you make an app for all of our phones that way we have it with us at all times. Thanks!

[running-man]

Great idea...  now, which method will those who don't believe it or us use, large majority I'm sure, which will the ATF go off of and use. To be C&R both parties have to agree as well. We all know from our very own past there is extreme push back on our method vs. the great ones of the past, that's fact and reality. And at the time of a C&R audit... where does this leave an individual if the ATF says........ NOPE, this is NOT C&R!!!!


Devils advocate..

Yeah, I had definitely thought of that.  Just because 'some guy on the internet" says it's a C&R doesn't mean that anyone has to believe them.  It's really true for any site out there, Wikipedia, etc.  We've been fighting that battle since this place opened though and internet gospel never dies... 

On the other hand, I know we are right, you know we are right, most every other member who is on this forum probably thinks we are right & we have the data to back it up 100% if it comes to that.  ATF could bring down the hammer for any reason...they could question the C&R status of my old Winchester Model 69 rimfire that has no serial number.  Widely believed to have been built in the 30's - 50's, where's the proof of age?  Winchester's own records were lost in a fire. At some point, it has to come down to a bit of common sense I'd hope.

I'm thinking of using 51 years as the cutoff (1970 -> Jan. 2021) as that would satisfy 100% the letter of the law: "Firearms manufactured at least 50 years prior the current date".  Boris B. questioned this a good while ago and I think he's 100% right to do so.  If a gun was built in 1970, you have no way of knowing whether it was made in January or in December (except for perhaps the /?5\ guns.)  So since we don't know we err on the side of caution and ensure the gun is at least 50 years old in Jan. 2021 just so there's no possibility of argument.  This also has the benefit that the yahoo's using the X millions + 1956 dating scheme would calculate "50" years old in 2021 too.  We would be more conservative than they would be for certain.

[running-man]

Just thought of a great idea. RM, can you make an app for all of our phones that way we have it with us at all times. Thanks!

Sorry Bob, RM doesn't know how to do apps.   I'll be lucky if I can get everything to fit on one page...there are quite a few arsenals out there!

[Greasemonkey]

Well of course.... I am biased to think we are right... I mean... I participated 

I can understand the 51 year cut point as well.

I was more saying, say Johnny Come Lately bought an Arsenal xxx with a fairly low serial that places it say in 1969. He enters it as a C&R in his log book like a lawful 03 holder should. The ATF decided to audit Johnny after the IRS, the ATF sees said entry, inspects said rifle and Field Agent Joe, high on government power says NOPE... Absolutely not and starts the chain of events. I'm sure the Winchester would be easier to prove than a more modern SKS, considering there is always been a controversial issue with Chinese weapons and C&R.

Where does this leave Mr. Lately??

[running-man]

Bah you're such a Debbie downer!

Fine, I'll put a disclaimer on the sheet to help shield us from stupidity.

[Greasemonkey]

Bah you're such a Debbie downer!

Fine, I'll put a disclaimer on the sheet to help shield us from stupidity.

Sorry... wasn't trying to be..  but, in today's time legalastic I'm gonna sue you for looking at me crosseyed while scratching your butt world, a disclaimer is just a better safe than sorry measure.  We both know the stupid is super strong these days, I mean....eating Tide Pods, come on....   Besides.....how many times have you just gleefully popped GM's bubble. 

[astronut]

Bah you're such a Debbie downer!

Fine, I'll put a disclaimer on the sheet to help shield us from stupidity.

Sorry... wasn't trying to be..  but, in today's time legalastic I'm gonna sue you for looking at me crosseyed while scratching your butt world, a disclaimer is just a better safe than sorry measure.  We both know the stupid is super strong these days, I mean....eating Tide Pods, come on....   Besides.....how many times have you just gleefully popped GM's bubble. 

With all due respect, I am just going to say that GM has way too much grease in his tank!   

[running-man]

With all due respect, I am just going to say that GM has way too much grease in his tank!   

See astronut, this is the "Good" GM.  We call the "Bad" GM Jimmy.  He is the one that the board software banned on it's own accord (true story!)

Nobody *ever* wants to see Jimmy.  He a-hem, goes full-retard sometimes:

[Boris Badinov]

I'm with GM on this one.

I don't have the BATF text on requesting C&R status for a given type of firearm at hand, but I seem to recall that documentation/proof of 50 year status had to be established prior to granting C&R eligibility. No?

As far as Steve Kehaya explained it 26 and pre /26\ are the only carbines clear for C&R by the BATF.


That said, I think a simplified dating post would be a useful forum source and link for extra-forumular (my word) proselytizing and knowledge spreading.

[Justin Hell]

Maybe not an app per se, but would it be possible to set up a single page here where you just enter the basics needed to date an SKS, and have it use just the few needed data points to date the SKS in question? A series of drop down menus that narrow down criteria...like an auto parts store website, but kind of in reverse.
You would just have to basically if/then through an inverted flow chart using rules from the dating system to arrive at a date. If it's C&R, maybe include

I have seen similar things on sites for dating guitars from their serials, and they even provide enough info to specify what factory made it. Of course it would be a little more complicated, but sections of the provided data (just the serial) are broken down into months, years and factories.

But it could be available online easily for someone to check via phone.  It would also promote the correct dating, if a search could lead to the site even more for 'SKS dating' the better.  The old ways still seem to prevail A LOT on other forums and groups...it's tedious.

Mind you, I have absolutely no idea how to write code that would do that, but it seems like it would be something you might even be able to find a template for.

[Larry D.]

Is there a snowballs chance the this is a document that could be sent to the alphabet boys for approval?
In all likelihood, they don't have a solid idea either, so if all the planets align, they might even use it to educate themselves.