Anyone used any of this "Soviet 7.62x39 Ammo STEEL CORE AP"?

[firstchoice]

There's several auctions listed as "500 Ct. Soviet 7.62x39 Ammo STEEL CORE AP" on Gunbroker. Here's the listing on one:

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/849865271

I've watched the past several cycles of these and most auctions are won around $125.00-$130.00 plus the $26.00 Shipping fee. So, around $.30/rd by the time it gets to your door.

Just wondering if anyone knows anything about this ammo? Russian steel core seems odd to me in the bulk quantity, nowadays. I know they can't import it anymore. Is it something someone sat on for a long time and now is passing it along? The description is a "bit" puzzling.

This listing is for 500 rounds of 7.62x39 STEEL CORE ammunition. By the headstamp this is very rare Soviet factory ammunition, with a copper washed casing and a steel core high quality bullet with cannelure. It is very similar to the pre-ban Norinco steel core ammo that was imported through the 90’s. This is pre-ban ammunition, but it is considered “Armor Piercing" according to the ATF and make sure you know your local laws prior to bidding. These are not the actual black tip tungsten core rounds that we personally consider AP; however they are still great heavily penetrating rounds.

Normally this ammo goes for $1.00+ per round; get it only here at this amazing price in this quantity.

Note: These rounds come from "a factory"’s normal inventory, just before final QC checking. But due to that they are sold as is with no returns. But due to not being the manufacturer and for Gunbroker Liability we must state that you may find rounds with defects; Also that we do not guarantee the dimensions, chambering, velocity, pressure, accuracy, any component weights, clean burning, bullet orientation/location, primer orientation/location, plating thickness, composition, or any specification for this ammunition. The Seller has gone through thousands of rounds of this ammo and it has shot with zero issue, but treat this auction as rounds meant for pull-down/components. You abdicate filling a claim with Gunbroker or your credit card if you have issues with this auction. Please see all of our good feedback and note that 99.9% of customers have no issues with this ammo, as it came to us labeled not as “Factory Production, without final QC”, but we must place this disclaimer for our liability.

Based on inventory, will come packaged in:

         500 rounds packed in a Polybag within a heavy duty cardboard shipper box

*Underline on "a factory's" is mine for notation.

On the 3rd picture of the 4 pictures shown in the auction ad, you can see the middle round has "FEDARM 201(6)? or 201(5)? 7,62x39 etched into the side. I don't know if this is identifying the manufacture or, ?

I guess I'm trying to determine if this is somebody's rework of old ammo or actual Russian-made surplus. Any observations or opinions?

The Seller has 21669 reviews and a A+ rating.

firstchoice

[Phosphorus32]

Looks like reworks to me. I see the same writing that you noted, with 2016 probably being the rework year. No primer or bullet sealant as I would expect on original surplus, Berdan primer looks new, case looks old.

[Bob_The_Student]

Are you looking at these just because of steel core? I personally wouldn't use any of these rounds after that disclaimer. I assume they have knowledge of failures and I wouldn't put any of these in my firearms either way after that warning/disclaimer. While I understand putting disclaimer/warning in a listing, this one is the most in depth I've seen. There are plenty of rounds to buy for .10 less p/r that would be better, IMO.

[Greasemonkey]

There is a Fedarm in Ft Smith.. https://fedarm.com/   Looks like reworks, maybe someone got a FFL 06, bought a butt load of components and started cranking out the ammo..but, never understood the fascination with steel core ammo.

copper washed casing

That casing looks more a Wolf lacquer coated case.. thats not copper washed in my book

This is copper washed cases..

[carls sks]

wolf on gundeals.com is 19 cents a round (including shipping), seems like a better option. 

[firstchoice]

Looks like reworks to me. I see the same writing that you noted, with 2016 probably being the rework year. No primer or bullet sealant as I would expect on original surplus, Berdan primer looks new, case looks old.

I think you're right, P32. Everything about this looks like reworked, remanufactured ammo. The ad is very deceptive, if that is indeed the case. The new primer caught my eye, too. I thought I saw a little red sealant on the round to the left in the 3rd pic. But it looks to be left over from the original loading. Which is another red flag in itself.

Are you looking at these just because of steel core? I personally wouldn't use any of these rounds after that disclaimer. I assume they have knowledge of failures and I wouldn't put any of these in my firearms either way after that warning/disclaimer. While I understand putting disclaimer/warning in a listing, this one is the most in depth I've seen. There are plenty of rounds to buy for .10 less p/r that would be better, IMO.

I saw the ad in the "featured" section of an ad for a gun that I was looking at. I saw the "Soviet Steel Core" and it did make me look at it. The old Russian Steel Core was fairly hard to find. And certainly hard to find now. The "just like the Chinese Steel Core" didn't help, either. I used to like shooting the old Chinese stuff at steel appliances just to see the shredding. Not as good as the Tungston Carbide bullets, but still effective. Yeah, there's lots of other better buys.

There is a Fedarm in Ft Smith.. https://fedarm.com/   Looks like reworks, maybe someone got a FFL 06, bought a butt load of components and started cranking out the ammo..but, never understood the fascination with steel core ammo.

copper washed casing

That casing looks more a Wolf lacquer coated case.. thats not copper washed in my book

I took a look at the FEDARM site and their ammo is remanufactured from various components they collect and put together. I have no idea why this Seller would buy the ammo "just before final QC checking", or why the manufacturer would sell it that way. It may have something to do with the steel core rules. IDK. The whole thing sounds fishy now.

Yeah, another red flag. What is pictured is the laquer-coated steel casing.

wolf on gundeals.com is 19 cents a round (including shipping), seems like a better option. 

Thanks Carl! I think anything, including buying nothing, is a better option than this. I have ammo. I'm always on the hunt, though!! 

firstchoice

[Bacarnal]

Sounds weird to me.  I'll stick with the 1000+ of green box China Jing An that I bought back in the late '80's or early '90's.  It should be good for a while, since it's the reserve  .

[astronut]

Yeah, I dont know alot about 7.62x39 ammo but this ammo seems a bit fishy and I would steer clear of it. 

[firstchoice]

Even after reading the responses, a friend of mine in Springfield bought some of the aforementioned ammo just to throw the dice. I think he came out okay. I told him I'd buy 100rds just out of curiousity. After checking over the ammo at first glance, the ammo is clean and appears consistant.

Headstamps are:

17 over 70
17 over 71
17 over 72
17 over 73
60 over 73
539 over 69

17=Barnaul (Russia)
60=BMZ (Kyrgyzstan)
539=Tula (Russia)

Every casing is laser etched with "FEDARM  2018  7,62x39" on the side, lengthwise.

I pulled several bullets with a Rockford Arsenal inertia puller. The bullets are FMJ Steel Core .311 diameter with cannelure.

I haven't cut open a bullet yet to seen the design of the steel core, but I will. I'm assuming that they are the mild steel core bullets that are common for the .311 diameter bullets in most steel core imported rounds. Although, even with a steel punch I am only "shining" the steel core insert rather than scratching it. Are there any "easy" tests known for finding out? I don't know how or why anyone found, or could find, .311 Tungsten Carbide bullets to remanufacture 7.62x39mm ammo? Not sure it's even possible anymore?

The powder is a "dot" powder as opposed to the "barrel"-style powder found in the Russian Hollow Point rounds made by Wolf. I loaned my powder scales out some time back and don't have them yet to measure powder weights or full round weights for average. I will wait until I've weighed the rounds to check for consistency before I actually shoot any of it. I've got my friend to wait to shoot his, too, until I get an average weight on the rounds to check for consistency.

The primers look to be replaced. They are a brass colored rather than the nickle colored primers common on the milsurp ammo. All that I went through are seated correctly and no deformation is noticed.

It's more of a curiousity than anything. Definitely not a good price and I doubt I would want more. Just thought I would report on what I found out about the stuff.

firstchoice

[carls sks]

always good to get info, thanks FC. 

[Greasemonkey]

FC

Interesting report.. does sound like reloaded component ammo. Seems like a whole lot of trouble to individually mark the cases..
 I'm not sure Tungsten Carbide is found very much in ammo available to us, at least not cheaply.. but I'm pretty sure Tungsten Carbide will cut, scratch, damage glass very easy given how hard it is, don't know if that would be a valid true scientific test. Mild steel probably wouldn't do much to glass.. Mild steel core is what I see so many people hyping as AP ammo.. I have a few boxes of M2 30-06 black tip AP ammo, even that I believe is just a mild steel insert, and quite a bit of steel core x54r ammo, again it's mild steel. Even a few boxes of the horrible evil banned forever Norinco AP steel core.. mild steel.

[Larry D.]

Wouldn't it be illegal to (re)manufacture and sell ammo using Tungsten Carbide core, AKA armor piercing, ammo?

My guess is that it's just steel core, which is perfectly legal.

[Greasemonkey]

Wouldn't it be illegal to (re)manufacture and sell ammo using Tungsten Carbide core, AKA armor piercing, ammo?

My guess is that it's just steel core, which is perfectly legal.

Yes....and no. plus I'm sure local and state laws apply

§ 478.37 Manufacture, importation and sale of armor piercing ammunition.

No person shall manufacture or import, and no manufacturer or importer shall sell or deliver, armor piercing ammunition, except:

(a) The manufacture or importation, or the sale or delivery by any manufacturer or importer, of armor piercing ammunition for the use of the United States or any department or agency thereof or any State or any department, agency or political subdivision thereof;

(b) The manufacture, or the sale or delivery by a manufacturer or importer, of armor piercing ammunition for the purpose of exportation; or

(c) The sale or delivery by a manufacturer or importer of armor piercing ammunition for the purposes of testing or experimentation as authorized by the Director under the provisions of § 478.149.
[T.D. ATF-270, 53 FR 10494, Mar. 31, 1988]

Then there is a whole mess about handguns and such.. The FN5.7 fall in this and some .223 ammo is deemed AP..

the ATF has cracked down on certain .223 Remington bullets – for example, copper bullets. This is because a copper bullet for a .223 Remington cartridge is now “armor piercing” in the eyes of the ATF because it can be used in a handgun

From https://rocketffl.com/ap-ammo-are-armor-piercing-bullets-legal/

So all these..... tackykool pistols using rifle rounds..beware..all it takes is one event..and a whole line of ammo or even a caliber could banned by the ATF, certain groups are just itching for that.

Now there is this...
https://www.ammoland.com/2019/01/new-legal-armor-piercing-handgun-round-announced-video/#axzz6CTDBTpg7

[Randy]

The harder we fight for fewer laws the quicker some manufacturers are to come out with something to ruin it for everyone.
It really boiuls down to-- just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

[Greasemonkey]

The harder we fight for fewer laws the quicker some manufacturers are to come out with something to ruin it for everyone.
It really boiuls down to-- just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

And Bingo was his name oh!! Exactly.. But, money talks and B.S. walks....then gets banned.

[Larry D.]

§ 478.37 Manufacture, importation and sale of armor piercing ammunition.

No person shall manufacture or import, and no manufacturer or importer shall sell or deliver, armor piercing ammunition, except:

(a) The manufacture or importation, or the sale or delivery by any manufacturer or importer, of armor piercing ammunition for the use of the United States or any department or agency thereof or any State or any department, agency or political subdivision thereof;

Is it just me, or should this particular "exemption" scare the hell out of us. Of particular note is that is does NOT specifically state A SINGLE WORD pertaining to the U.S. military.
I get it, United States or any department or agency covers the military, but it also covers a helluva lot more, too.

[astronut]

The harder we fight for fewer laws the quicker some manufacturers are to come out with something to ruin it for everyone.
It really boiuls down to-- just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

And Bingo was his name oh!! Exactly.. But, money talks and B.S. walks....then gets banned.

Wait, wait, who got banned?  I hope it was not me.  Randy will get the joke!      

[Randy]

Don't know?

Too many things, too many things!

 

[Larry D.]

The harder we fight for fewer laws the quicker some manufacturers are to come out with something to ruin it for everyone.
It really boiuls down to-- just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

Amen Randy.