Albanian SKS With All Matching Electro Pencil Serial Number and No Date?

[firstchoice]

I agree with Boris Badinov's suggestion that the bolt is of Chinese origin. And I also agree that more than likely, the rifle's serial number was derived from the serial number on the bolt. I don't think the receiver is anything other than Albanian that was scrubbed. I can see no evidence of the stock ferule being replaced and repositioned, or the removal of the FSB or Gas Block. My biggest question is, why scrub the original serial number, at all? Just seems odd, but anything can happen in the SKS world.

I'm not familiar enough with the early Chinese and Russian bolt carriers to decide which this is. Are there examples of early Chinese bolt carriers with the proof marks like this? We don't know if these rifles were "assembled" here or in Albania. If it was in Albania, were there supplies of Russian SKS parts for reuse? I know the Chinese parts were used frequently for repairs in Albania. If they were put together here, anything is possible.

I don't know what to make of the measurements you reported. I used a set of dial calipers on my '69 Alby and two different non-scrubbed Chinese receivers. All three came in about 1.251"-1.252". Without a proper OD gauge I can't get much more accurate. I'd think that receiver scrubbing would take at least .020"-.030", or more, off the total width?

The receiver cover could have been one of the non-marked replacement covers that were available for a good while, and marked to match the rest. It doesn't have the "stripe" across the back like most original Alby and Chinese covers.

firstchoice

[Boris Badinov]

I agree with Boris Badinov's suggestion that the bolt is of Chinese origin. And I also agree that more than likely, the rifle's serial number was derived from the serial number on the bolt. I don't think the receiver is anything other than Albanian that was scrubbed. I can see no evidence of the stock ferule being replaced and repositioned, or the removal of the FSB or Gas Block. My biggest question is, why scrub the original serial number, at all? Just seems odd, but anything can happen in the SKS world.

I'm not familiar enough with the early Chinese and Russian bolt carriers to decide which this is. Are there examples of early Chinese bolt carriers with the proof marks like this? We don't know if these rifles were "assembled" here or in Albania. If it was in Albania, were there supplies of Russian SKS parts for reuse? I know the Chinese parts were used frequently for repairs in Albania. If they were put together here, anything is possible.

I don't know what to make of the measurements you reported. I used a set of dial calipers on my '69 Alby and two different non-scrubbed Chinese receivers. All three came in about 1.251"-1.252". Without a proper OD gauge I can't get much more accurate. I'd think that receiver scrubbing would take at least .020"-.030", or more, off the total width?

The receiver cover could have been one of the non-marked replacement covers that were available for a good while, and marked to match the rest. It doesn't have the "stripe" across the back like most original Alby and Chinese covers.

firstchoice

The proof stamps on the bolt carrier are what identify it as Soviet. The stamps seen on either side of the carrier are not seen on any variant other than those from the soviet arsenals. The Soviets supplied Albania with the sks45 prior to the Chinese, so there were ample stockpiles of Soviet spare parts.

I am also curious why anyone would scrub the serial from the receiver. And 99.9% of the time it wouldn't even cross my mind to consider the possibility that the receiver had been swapped for one made in a different country. But this rifle isn't like other rifles.

Why scrub the receiver serial?
Because you want to sell an Albanian sks, but you don't have an Albanian receiver in your incomplete pile of parts. (see GM's response in reply #10)

So you  pair an Albanian barrel with an accordingly indexed Chinese receiver. And since you want the rifle to be as authentically Albanian as possible, you scrub the receiver serial.  And, voilą! You've got an Albanian carbine. Using a filet weld and polish to remove the receiver serial, the 'scrubbed' surface would remain intact with virtually no discernible changed in specs.

[Bacarnal]

Is it possible that the receiver came off the line as a spare and was not serialized? That would account for the correct dimensions .  Does anyone know the practices of Chinese and Soviet serial application? I know the US applied the serials before heat treating their receivers, but from what I can see of the SKS, the serial seems to be applied after blueing.

[Boris Badinov]

Is it possible that the receiver came off the line as a spare and was not serialized? That would account for the correct dimensions . 

This is also a possibility. Especially given the very rough machine work seen along the rails and in the receiver well.

[running-man]

IIRC, SteveK verified that the Albanians have non-/26\ guns as well.

I can't think of any other possible origin for the bolt besides China. But it could be from a non-/26\ carbine.

From just the proof stamps, my guess is that carrier is Soviet.

Could the bolt and carrier indicate a Soviet or chinese receiver?

That's entirely possible.  My mind went immediately to what I have seen come from Albanian stockpiles: ghost guns and /26\ guns. 

The receiver could be Chinese, but I think it's a bit on the ratty end to be a Russian receiver.  The chatter in the pockets around the disconnector hole and along the bolt carrier guide rails is pretty extreme compared to many of the Russian examples I've looked at.  Something was moving when that receiver was on the machine or the endmills themselves were in need of some TLC.  Not saying the Russians didn't leave their share of tool marks, but in general, finish on a Russian gun is better than that of a Chinese which are both better than what you see on a typical Albanian. 

Bolt carrier is interesting, the lightening cut is ratty, but that's the one area on a Russian gun that typically shows tooling marks more often than not.  The thing that seals it for me is the "tombstone A" mark...only ever seen that mark on Russian parts.   

[Bacarnal]

ouroboros, you lucked out.  Went to check the Louisville Cabelas and the didn't have any Albanian SKS's. Checked with a guy I know who works there and they haven't had any SKS's of any kind for a while .

[echo1]

When he wouldn't budge on the price I would have offered him a price on all of them. Even at 475.00 ea your money ahead. But since you didn't, I go right back and buy the rest of them asap.  Albanians are these days finally getting the respect they should have got years ago.

I actually paid a tad more for my Albys than my Russians, but I bought the Russians a few years earlier. Still happy about just getting them.

My local LGS, who didn't know SKS squat or give a care about mil surp in general, had the first one I'd ever seen, on consignment. I bought it right there. When I went to pick it up later (Kali 10 day), he had another come in while I was there! I told him just to put in my pile.  PAX

[running-man]

I actually paid a tad more for my Albys than my Russians, but I bought the Russians a few years earlier. Still happy about just getting them.

My local LGS, who didn't know SKS squat or give a care about mil surp in general, had the first one I'd ever seen, on consignment. I bought it right there. When I went to pick it up later (Kali 10 day), he had another come in while I was there! I told him just to put in my pile.  PAX

Laff, Pax you know you have a problem when you have a dedicated pile at your LGS..... 

[Direct Connection]

Every Lgs in Northern Ca, is on name to name bases with Pax

[echo1]

Every Lgs in Northern Ca, is on name to name bases with Pax

More than a few Calgunners too...and now that I've spent a season in Idaho...got an early blade Paratroopers waiting in Pingree... PAX

[ouroboros]

Thanks again to everyone for the info. I am beginning to come to an understanding with this rifle. It may not be one of the most valuable Albanian SKS's out there... but it is one of the weirdest... and I am happy with that, heh.

One quick question: I know the bayonet itself is Albanian-specific (black spiker, a little shorter) but is the bayonet mounting hardware and collar the same as a Chinese or Soviet variant of some kind or is it also unique to Albania?

[Larry D.]

I actually paid a tad more for my Albys than my Russians, but I bought the Russians a few years earlier. Still happy about just getting them.

My local LGS, who didn't know SKS squat or give a care about mil surp in general, had the first one I'd ever seen, on consignment. I bought it right there. When I went to pick it up later (Kali 10 day), he had another come in while I was there! I told him just to put in my pile.  PAX

Laff, Pax you know you have a problem when you have a dedicated pile at your LGS..... 

Something tells me that he doesn't have a problem with it.......

[Justin Hell]

Thanks again to everyone for the info. I am beginning to come to an understanding with this rifle. It may not be one of the most valuable Albanian SKS's out there... but it is one of the weirdest... and I am happy with that, heh.

One quick question: I know the bayonet itself is Albanian-specific (black spiker, a little shorter) but is the bayonet mounting hardware and collar the same as a Chinese or Soviet variant of some kind or is it also unique to Albania?

The Albanian collar is different, and the lug may be too. I have no Alby, but I did pick up one of the bayonets, the collar IIRC is slightly narrower with the inside dimension...as the bayo has a little play in a Chinese collar....which was required to make it not sag on the Chinese I used it on. So I assume the mount also has an angle unique to Albania.  I believe one of the times I saw them offered for sale by a bigger parts house that they were not compatible with Chinese or Russian...

One thing you may find in your search for one, is that the collar was replaced with a Chinese...keep an eye out for that. Some of the recent imports from Albania had Albanian bayonets on them...and I assure you that unless they sag, badly...they are not Albanian collars on those Chinese lugs.

Someone here may also have done what I did and may have the collar for you. I modded mine to work on a troublesome Chinese DB mount...sorry.

[echo1]

JH,

I put an Alby bayo on one of my T6 units, early letter Franken build gun. The bayo install worked as is. PAX

[ouroboros]

...so... I recently bought a Polish P-64 handgun in 9x18... and we may have another piece of this mysterious puzzle.

The magazine of the P-64 is electro-penciled with the numbers... 06687... and the serial number of my Albanian electro-penciled SKS is... 66879. 

What are the significance of these numbers? What does it all mean? I feel like I need to read through all of Dan Brown's books to find the answer.

I am picturing my house in one year... newspaper cutouts and these numbers posted all over the wall with red string attaching them at various points.

(Disclaimer: this is not a serious post... but it is a funny coincidence.)

[Phosphorus32]

...so... I recently bought a Polish P-64 handgun in 9x18... and we may have another piece of this mysterious puzzle.

The magazine of the P-64 is electro-penciled with the numbers... 06687... and the serial number of my Albanian electro-penciled SKS is... 66879. 

What are the significance of these numbers? What does it all mean? I feel like I need to read through all of Dan Brown's books to find the answer.

I am picturing my house in one year... newspaper cutouts and these numbers posted all over the wall with red string attaching them at various points.

(Disclaimer: this is not a serious post... but it is a funny coincidence.)

 

[Bacarnal]

Nah, I'd seriously go with the photos and red strings... .