SKS-FILES FORUM
SKS Carbines => Unaltered SKS Rifles => Albanian SKS => Topic started by: 22srfun on March 30, 2020, 01:06:46 PM
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Hello,
Hope everyone is OK during these strange times.
I recently got a 78 Albanian. I'll post pictures and questions about it soon.
While spending all of yesterday removing the remaining cosmoline that a previous owner did not get I had a thought.
If it took me all day to finish removing cosmoline , what would countries have done to put rifles back into action quickly?
It seems like by time rifles were pulled out and made usable again a country could be over run by an invader.
Is there some industrial process they would use?
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i think i saw something about them putting in boiling water. but, i am never in that much of a hurry to do that. :o
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Interesting question.
If it was an Eastern Bloc central storage facility back in the Cold War days, they probably would have dipped them in a degreasing vat full of carbon tetrachloride, perchloroethylene or similar (dry cleaning solvents) then discharged the solvent to a river or put it in an unlined pond where it would seep into the groundwater.
In a field deployment situation, where they're degreasing a few or many crates at a time, probably each militia soldier would have to degrease his newly issued second-line weapon. I've seen videos of Chinese degreasing them in a boiling water bath, as mentioned by Carl. This would be another possibility for the Eastern Bloc field deployment situation. Pulling second line weapons like SKSs, Mosins, Russian Capture K98k rifles or similar, would not have been likely to be time sensitive to the point that you'd be hours away from being overrun, so an individual soldier doing it the laborious way with an NCO looking on to tell them they're doing it wrong rofl would be the most likely scenario in my opinion
All of the above is primarily educated guessing for Eastern Bloc procedures, aka a WAG :)) American practice for removing actual Cosmoline (not the ersatz Cosmoline that communist countries used) was the chlorinated solvent approach (disposal in pits, not rivers), based on first hand accounts. That is one reason that many military bases have issues with DNAPLs (dense non-aqueous phase liquids, i.e., chlorinated solvents) in their groundwater. The wonderful properties of chlorinated solvents are that they are excellent degreasers and they are not flammable, the down side is that many are mutagenic/carcinogenic.
For myself, doing one, or a few, at a time, I've used a few different procedures. For light grease, I've wiped off excess and then used WD-40 or Remoil spray to remove light residue, or for heavier used mineral spirits to help dissolve the grease. I've also used boiling hot water in a 4" diameter PVC tube with an end cap that I set up specifically for the purpose with Dawn dishwashing liquid to emulsify the grease. I followed that up with a hot water rinse and immediately sprayed down all the metal with WD-40 or Remoil that flashes off the solvent and leaves the oily fraction behind.
For the stock I always prefer gentle heat to bleed out the grease and simply wipe it down. Usually a low temp (200F) oven that is pre-heated, then turned off. I don't want a hot heating element or gas flame as a source of flash ignition of any light petroleum products. A heat gun/hair dryer also works. Then there's the summer time seal it in a black paper bag in the sun trick too 8)
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I swear I remember seeing an old picture of soldiers removing it by dipping the metal parts into 55 gallon drums of hot water.
My google-fu failed to turn up that picture, though.
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Thank you all for the replies.
Since I do not have a 55 gallon drum of carbon tetrachloride I guess
I'll have to stick to mineral spirits and elbow grease! :)
The Albanian is all cleaned up and I'll post pics soon on a new thread.
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Thank you all for the replies.
Since I do not have a 55 gallon drum of carbon tetrachloride I guess
I'll have to stick to mineral spirits and elbow grease! :)
The Albanian is all cleaned up and I'll post pics soon on a new thread.
:)) Yeah, I would definitely not recommend the chlorinated solvents at home. If you have a chemical fume hood and or a respirator with a can rated for those solvents, and are willing to pay for disposal of the spent solvent, then go for it thumb1 :))
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I believe that once they were dipped in Cosmoline they were stored with the thought of never being used again.
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Old thread but I'll mention that I know someone who served in the Czechoslovak military and they apparently used diesel fuel. I doubt they used that for the wood stock. I guess anything that is a solvent would work.
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As far as we know, the Albanian Sks and Type 56s may not have been in Cosmo storage during their service life.
It's entirely possible (likely) that the Cosmo dip was done after Kosovo and Albanian conflicts of the late 90s and early 2000s.
The Soviet sks45 imports, for example, don't bear any evidence of deep heavy cosmoline --like the MN and sinobanian sks's--suggesting that the majority were stored "ready for use" straight from the crates.
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I assumed that if they were needed quickly each soldier would give it a basic going over to clear the metal parts (barrel, bolt, bolt carrier, etc) and that was it. As long as it was usable - the rest didn't matter if the enemy was headed towards them. The excess cosmoline would burn off or get rubbed off by use. thumb1
Maybe they would have been quickly dipped in hot water or a solvent (as mentioned) and then handed out.
If the enemy prevailed, why would you want them to have freshly cleaned rifles anyway...? rofl
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Soviet SVT-40 user's manual published in 1941 instructed to use gasoline to remove 'storage grease'.
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"Storage grease" could refer to cosmoline, but it could also refer to a light coating of grease or oil on the surface metal and in the bore.
The vast majority of the Soviet sks imports from the 1990s bear no evidence of the heavy cosmoline baths. Even the stock inletting on my '51, '52', '54 Izzy, and '55 are dry as a bone.
[On a side note, this is also a very strong piece of evidence that the soviet sks stockpiles were subject to regular, scheduled upkeep, and maintenance and stock refinish]
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As far as we know, the Albanian Sks and Type 56s may not have been in Cosmo storage during their service life.
It's entirely possible (likely) that the Cosmo dip was done after Kosovo and Albanian conflicts of the late 90s and early 2000s.
The Soviet sks45 imports, for example, don't bear any evidence of deep heavy cosmoline --like the MN and sinobanian sks's--suggesting that the majority were stored "ready for use" straight from the crates.
According to my grandfather they were carried a lot and shot very little. They only used a few rifles for shooting practice and they would get high round counts. Most of the rifles were carried a lot during training and border guard duties. Its why with all of these imports you'll see that the bores and internal parts are not used very much.
I had a Yugo SKS from the cosmoline that me and whoever I took along with me shooting put roughly 5000 rounds through. Only thing that needed replacing was the gas valve but that was it. Outside the rifle still looked in amazing shape as it was only carried to my car and to the range while the internals had use and it was visible. Still accurate and reliable.
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If you watch the videos of weapons looting in Albania in the late 1990's, there is no indication that the looted sks rifles are coated in the heavy cosmoline that we saw when they began being imported in 2012.
https://youtu.be/PErmmpqvepg?t=85
https://youtu.be/J7tK9bA7Bsg?t=60
Granted, these are not close up examination clips of the weapons, but the men and boys carrying the rifles are doing so with bare hands--- and none of the reaction you would expect if they were bare handing rifles coated in as much grease as the sino-albanian imports were.
Just my observations.
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"Storage grease" could refer to cosmoline, but it could also refer to a light coating of grease or oil on the surface metal and in the bore.
The vast majority of the Soviet sks imports from the 1990s bear no evidence of the heavy cosmoline baths. Even the stock inletting on my '51, '52', '54 Izzy, and '55 are dry as a bone.
[On a side note, this is also a very strong piece of evidence that the soviet sks stockpiles were subject to regular, scheduled upkeep, and maintenance and stock refinish]
It is possible. However, I guess you logically wouldn't need a big container filled with gasoline (mentioned in the SVT 40 manual), if it's just a light coating of grease or oil.
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I think one of fundamental questions still is, 'what is exactly East Bloc/Soviet/Chinese/Albanian 'cosmoline'?'
In the official Chinese Type 56 SKS user's manual published in 1956, it mentioned that 'rifles prepared for long term storage shall be covered with Winter season field artillery grease #3. However, I haven't been able to find any detailed info in this specific grease.
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It is possible. However, I guess you logically wouldn't need a big container filled with gasoline (mentioned in the SVT 40 manual), if it's just a light coating of grease or oil.
Can't disagree with that.
Can't deny the complete absence of cosmoline on the vast majority of the Soviet imports from the 1990's either.
Obviously something changed after (or during) WW2, and likely for a very specific reason. My guess would be that the Soviets realized that a heavy coat of cosmoline wasn't the quickest way to field a rifle straight from storage. IMHO, the Soviet sks imports are a good indication of the change in "ready storage" philosophy.
It makes one wonder if the instructions on grease removal changed after June, 1941.
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It is possible. However, I guess you logically wouldn't need a big container filled with gasoline (mentioned in the SVT 40 manual), if it's just a light coating of grease or oil.
Can't disagree with that.
Can't deny the complete absence of cosmoline on the vast majority of the Soviet imports from the 1990's either.
Obviously something changed after (or during) WW2, and likely for a very specific reason. My guess would be that the Soviets realized that a heavy coat of cosmoline wasn't the quickest way to field a rifle straight from storage. IMHO, the Soviet sks imports are a good indication of the change in "ready storage" philosophy.
It makes one wonder if the instructions on grease removal changed after June, 1941.
Maybe they were cleaned for export? I have seen Mosin's that were imported that were greasy slimy and others dry as a popcorn fart.
Somewhere I remember reading Yugoslavia used storage grease on their surplus, weapons that were setback in storage for use, if in a major conflict the current weapons supply got so low, they could resort to cleaning the Mausers and older weapons surplus for use or for use by rear line troops and such.
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Cleaning for export doesn't make any sense for two big reasons as i see it.
1.) Its highly labor intensive for the roughly 200,000 - 250,000 estimated sks45 imports that were sold for ~ $99.00
2.) Stock internals on the 45s are dry as bone.
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I juat pulled the stocks my 4 Soviet imports
51, 52, 55, 54 Iz.
No grease at all on anywhere on the unfinished inletting.
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The bone dry stocks are another piece of evidence to argument that the Soviet sks45 stockpiles were regularly inspected, and maintained for metal wear and stock refinishing-- with quick drying lacquer.
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I have 2 Russians, somewhere.. I can not remember if the internals were greaseless, they really aren't my thing. but at the same time, Yugoslavia pulled and inspected frequently as well, as indicated by log books, and they used quite a bit of storage grease. Some difference could be dependent on local climate of said storage locations. A humid temperate area may require protective grease, a dryer more arctic location may not. And I'm sure the black paint Russia used was used as a replacement for a corrosion inhibitor suited for the climate.
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I've only ever owned one Yugo, and M59 which i sold.
I wrecked the oven cleaning the cosmoline out of the stock. The apartment we lived in at the time reeked for days, and the stock was still greasy inside and out after many hours of baking at low temp.
Luckily the wife was out of town at the time, so.i had several days to rectify as much of the damage as possible.
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Ah, what SKS owner doesn’t have memories of cosmoline removal?
I took my first SKS out of the stock, disassembled it as much as I could, then dunked it in a tub of mineral spirits. I let the parts and the main barrel/receiver assembly soak in that nice bath for two days, then dragged them out and scrubbed everything else off with a combination of rags and pipe cleaners. I must’ve gone through a couple dozen rags that were afterwards unusable.
I should’ve worn nitrile gloves and/or a game apron in hindsight. I got cosmoline and mineral spirits soaked into my clothes and all over my hands.
The stock got a cosmetic mineral spirits scrub; I wasn’t worried about harming the wood because it was already pretty beat up and discolored anyway.
I’ve heard of people using a combination of simple green and hot water, as well as diesel fuel to get the stuff off as well.
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My current method is to soak the small parts in hot water and then wipe off (trigger group and magazine). Pour hot water down the barrel and gas tube, to help break up the cosmoline and then use patches to get the rest.
The metal parts I can wipe of with mineral spirits are easy to clean (pistons, springs, bayonet).
Just use mineral spirits on the stock and wipe it off.
Probably takes me 6-8 hours to clean one. Just take my time and try to be thorough. I'm sure armories were much faster and not worried about getting it ALL off.
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I wonder if the Russian SKS was considered a "ready" reserve weapon and kept available for quick issue vs the Mosins and other older stuff.
I have read the post WWII Yugoslav army strategy was to rely heavily on partisan mobilization of civilians... which later was considered out of touch. I think part of that was since the Tito Partisans were successful, and part the Yugo army was defeated by Germany in like 11 days. There was mandatory military training etc.
That said during the 1990s Yugo wars a lot of old stuff came out of storage. But there was also a lot of obviously nicer, not issued during the 90s stuff imported.
I wonder how much thought was really put into what would be coated and what wouldn't vs how long it takes to clean.
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I wonder if the Russian SKS was considered a "ready" reserve weapon and kept available for quick issue vs the Mosins and other older stuff.
I have read the post WWII Yugoslav army strategy was to rely heavily on partisan mobilization of civilians... which later was considered out of touch. I think part of that was since the Tito Partisans were successful, and part the Yugo army was defeated by Germany in like 11 days. There was mandatory military training etc.
That said during the 1990s Yugo wars a lot of old stuff came out of storage. But there was also a lot of obviously nicer, not issued during the 90s stuff imported.
I wonder how much thought was really put into what would be coated and what wouldn't vs how long it takes to clean.
The Russian imports to the US don't bear the evidence of heavy cosmoline. The Soviet sks stocks are comparatively bone dry.
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The Russian imports to the US don't bear the evidence of heavy cosmoline. The Soviet sks stocks are comparatively bone dry.
Are the Candaian imports any different?