Author Topic: All Original HARDWOOD 1957 and 1958 Letter Series?  (Read 16173 times)

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Online Boris Badinov

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Re: All Original HARDWOOD 1957 and 1958 Letter Series?
« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2019, 01:57:06 PM »
Jstin,

When I extreme zoom the photo of the gas tube, there appears to be shadow script beneath the EP serial number-- kind of brownish in color and in the same dimensions of the EP script.



Can you see what I am referring to?

Online Boris Badinov

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Re: All Original HARDWOOD 1957 and 1958 Letter Series?
« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2019, 02:05:55 PM »
I think the tube has been refurbed and then had a new EP serial applied.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2019, 05:29:47 PM by Boris Badinov »

Online Boris Badinov

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Re: All Original HARDWOOD 1957 and 1958 Letter Series?
« Reply #22 on: February 17, 2019, 02:08:39 PM »
Btw,  thanks for taking the time to photograph an post, jstin2.

Your daughter taught you well.   thumb1

Offline Loose}{Cannon

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Re: All Original HARDWOOD 1957 and 1958 Letter Series?
« Reply #23 on: February 17, 2019, 02:09:21 PM »
There is an old serial number there.   B*66**

Thats not 'new old stock', thats 'used old stock'.



« Last Edit: February 17, 2019, 02:17:07 PM by Loose}{Cannon »
      
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Online Boris Badinov

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Re: All Original HARDWOOD 1957 and 1958 Letter Series?
« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2019, 02:20:10 PM »
LC-- I didn't even see that one. thumb1

If you enlarge the photo I posted above, there appears to be a third shadow script. It's very faint, but it's basically layered beneath the AH serial and the B* serial you pointed out.

The script I'm seeing is brown/plum in color. Hard to see without enlarging. Might be more visible with filters.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2019, 11:10:52 AM by Boris Badinov »

Online Boris Badinov

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Re: All Original HARDWOOD 1957 and 1958 Letter Series?
« Reply #25 on: February 17, 2019, 02:24:50 PM »
These are exactly the kinds of details I think many miss (both up north and here at home) when making "all-original" and "non-refurb" claims.

I have made the same mistake. But, in US dollars, paid...well...a bit more upon the discovery.

Offline Loose}{Cannon

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Re: All Original HARDWOOD 1957 and 1958 Letter Series?
« Reply #26 on: February 17, 2019, 02:25:09 PM »
Freakin nice azz rifle right there.   thumb1
« Last Edit: February 17, 2019, 02:30:38 PM by Loose}{Cannon »
      
1776 will commence again if you try to take our firearms... It doesn't matter how many Lenins you get out on the street begging for them to be taken.

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Re: All Original HARDWOOD 1957 and 1958 Letter Series?
« Reply #27 on: February 17, 2019, 02:28:37 PM »
Freakin nice azz rifle righ there.   thumb1

Also, that.

Solid $500-600 gun in the US market.

Lemme guess, Jstin. You paid $299 CD?

Online Boris Badinov

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Re: All Original HARDWOOD 1957 and 1958 Letter Series?
« Reply #28 on: February 17, 2019, 02:41:58 PM »
I zoomed in to the 89 in the EP serial, then added a filter and adjusted the white balance. There is more to the  script that I see, but zooming in may help to identify the rest of the shadow script in the original photo:




Offline running-man

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Re: All Original HARDWOOD 1957 and 1958 Letter Series?
« Reply #29 on: February 17, 2019, 02:43:32 PM »
Boris, I can find zero '58's with hardwood stocks that are not Canadian.  The majority of Canadian ones I did find are Westrifle specials and as such, totally unsuitable for data collection purposes with their 'enhanced' stocks such as:
 



I do find several '57s that fit the bill, and from the import stamps of many I know they are not Canadian:

A really nice AK4496_И:





Here is BH4121_И:




And a clearly CAI imported BP5608_И:







So the $64,000 question is: Are any of these 'un-issued' and in their original state?  Hell if I'd say they were (or *any* other SKS for that matter, but that is a whole other story).  They are damn nice though, have clear cartouches, and I only pulled the first three I found, ending at Prefix "BP".  What does that tell you?  It tells me that '57 hardwood stocks are not out of the realm of possibility...
      

Offline Loose}{Cannon

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Re: All Original HARDWOOD 1957 and 1958 Letter Series?
« Reply #30 on: February 17, 2019, 02:47:25 PM »
Rm, you think this star was humped by West rifle? 

      
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Re: All Original HARDWOOD 1957 and 1958 Letter Series?
« Reply #31 on: February 17, 2019, 02:49:56 PM »
Also, what all examples can you provide as to the WestRifle  "totally unsuitable for data collection purposes with their 'enhanced' stocks"?
      
1776 will commence again if you try to take our firearms... It doesn't matter how many Lenins you get out on the street begging for them to be taken.

Online Boris Badinov

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Re: All Original HARDWOOD 1957 and 1958 Letter Series?
« Reply #32 on: February 17, 2019, 02:54:44 PM »
Thanks, RM. Seriously.

So not at all out of the realm of possibility. But I'm still not ready to let the crow thaw.

As illustrated already in this thread, the evidence for refurbishment can often be elusive. IMHO, barring such evidence it's still inconclusive.

My standard would be photos of ALL serials, especially the EP serials on the gas tubes. AND the annealing stripes on the top covers for signs of re-blue.

 

« Last Edit: February 17, 2019, 03:15:53 PM by Boris Badinov »

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Re: All Original HARDWOOD 1957 and 1958 Letter Series?
« Reply #33 on: February 17, 2019, 02:55:40 PM »
Also, what all examples can you provide as to the WestRifle  "totally unsuitable for data collection purposes with their 'enhanced' stocks"?

Rhetorical question for the shadow audience?

Offline running-man

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Re: All Original HARDWOOD 1957 and 1958 Letter Series?
« Reply #34 on: February 17, 2019, 02:56:21 PM »
Maybe not by them specifically, but by the exporter who wanted to get top dollar for them.  Westrifle sold many of them, so I call them "Westrifle guns" which is probably not fair since I'm sure a whole bunch of others sold them as well.  When you see stars and dates cartouches suddenly show up on guns that had zero recorded instances of them for darn near 30 years, something's fishy in Denmark. 

They may never have gotten caught if they didn't do outrageous things like stamp '49's and 56's-58's. 

As it is, most Canadians don't really much care it seems.  It's an original unissued, un-refurbed, unfired gun to all of them and you can talk and try to call attention to thee descrepancies til you're blue in the face, but in the end you either a) just don't understand or b) you're jealous of their $200 SVT40s. 
      

Offline jstin2

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Re: All Original HARDWOOD 1957 and 1958 Letter Series?
« Reply #35 on: February 17, 2019, 02:57:43 PM »
There were no import marks on my 57. Boris had suggested that because I had a hardwood stock and a laminate handguard that stock was replaced. I countered the other way.  Took more pictures of gas tube for your observation.
https://ibb.co/album/iEEagF

Offline Loose}{Cannon

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Re: All Original HARDWOOD 1957 and 1958 Letter Series?
« Reply #36 on: February 17, 2019, 02:59:02 PM »
Maybe not by them specifically, but by the exporter who wanted to get top dollar for them.  Westrifle sold many of them, so I call them "Westrifle guns" which is probably not fair since I'm sure a whole bunch of others sold them as well.  When you see stars and dates cartouches suddenly show up on guns that had zero recorded instances of them for darn near 30 years, something's fishy in Denmark. 

They may never have gotten caught if they didn't do outrageous things like stamp '49's and 56's-58's.   :o :o

As it is, most Canadians don't really much care it seems.  It's an original unissued, un-refurbed, unfired gun to all of them and you can talk and try to call attention to thee descrepancies til you're blue in the face, but in the end you either a) just don't understand or b) you're jealous of their $200 SVT40s.


Where was this posted... remind me. 
      
1776 will commence again if you try to take our firearms... It doesn't matter how many Lenins you get out on the street begging for them to be taken.

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Re: All Original HARDWOOD 1957 and 1958 Letter Series?
« Reply #37 on: February 17, 2019, 03:01:47 PM »
There were no import marks on my 57. Boris had suggested that because I had a hardwood stock and a laminate handguard that stock was replaced. I countered the other way.  Took more pictures of gas tube for your observation.
https://ibb.co/album/iEEagF

Despite the obvious refurb indicators, your suggestion still has some merit:

Namely that the stock could (stressing, the  conditional tense) be original, with an obvious replacement handguard.

Or possibly both are non-original to the rifle.

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Re: All Original HARDWOOD 1957 and 1958 Letter Series?
« Reply #38 on: February 17, 2019, 03:19:59 PM »
Regarding inspection stamps around the rifle crossbolts:

I've never quite understood why the presence of the stamps  is considered an indication of a the stock being original to the rifle.

Couldn't the crossbolt stamps just as easily be exclusive the stock manufacturing and inspection process and have nothing to do with the barreled action?

Offline running-man

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Re: All Original HARDWOOD 1957 and 1958 Letter Series?
« Reply #39 on: February 17, 2019, 03:25:00 PM »
Where was this posted... remind me.

Heck man, it's out there somewhere.  It was probably two years ago, i've slept since then!  I'll see if i can find some of the egregious ones and post them here.  I specifically remember a 1949 in a laminate stock with a tula star and 1949 date on it. The gun was a total dog otherwise.  Not sure what they were aiming for there.  I'll get something by this evening.