Author Topic: Errata: The SKS Carbine (CKC45G), Kehaya and Poyer, 5th edition  (Read 1764 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Phosphorus32

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+13)
  • Sniper
  • *
  • Posts: 6796
  • Send lawyers guns and money...uh, skip the lawyers
The SKS Carbine (CKC45G), 5th Revised and Expanded Edition, Steve Kehaya, Joe Poyer, 2014.
1st edition, copyright 1996

This is not meant as a mean-spirited criticism of Kehaya and Poyer's (hereafter, K&P's) work. I've interacted with Steve and he seems like a good honest guy. He's worked hard and deserves a happy retirement, and is clearly under no obligation to further edit his book.

My objective is to note issues primarily with K&P's SKS information, i.e. mistakes, statements in conflict with current data, or conjectures not stated as such, that are perpetuated around the internet as facts. It's the perpetuation of errors by others that I find almost more disturbing than the original work. People simply aren't practicing critical thinking skills and looking at current data. Back to the book, speculation and conjecture are fine as long as they're noted. Hypotheses are preferred, as they are an explanation consistent with observable facts that may be tested against current or new data and facts (primary or secondary data are necessary). If someone presents a hypothesis, it doesn't mean that there aren't alternative hypotheses.

I'll note that their work was first printed in 1996, though substantively updated after that year with the Romanian, Albanian, and later Yugoslavian import data. Overall, it was composed of relatively early information. This means mistakes are quite forgivable. However, mistakes are still wrong and they should be noted, so that they don't continue to be presented as current knowledge. Many people (novice collectors and some old-school collectors) still think of K&P as the definitive work on the SKS and treat YooperJ's website with its mistaken K&P-derived dating scheme (but generally good observational data on accessories, etc.) as the go-to online resource, despite it being very out of date and hence error-prone.

K&P apparently hadn't studied the serial numbers and features of the early Type 56s (1956-1960) imported from Albania in 2012-13, before publishing this 5th edition. That seems a bit odd, considering that Steve worked at CAI at the time. I can only speculate that he was very busy doing his primary job with his employer during this heavy importing period and Poyer did some minor updates in the 5th edition.



ERRATA. This is not an exhaustive list of errors, it focuses on the SKS relevant information, and specifically on the 2nd chapter, at the moment.


Cover: g is for goda (года) meaning the year of; to my knowledge, it's not part of the Russian SKS designation CKC-45.


p. xi: there is no evidence that the Albanian SKS is known as the "Independence Carbine". It appears to be known as the Pushkë Gjysmë Automatiku Shqiptar (Albanian Semiautomatic  Rifle), perhaps, the Tipi 56 (Type 56), though I've yet to run across a really convincing case for the official model designation. Most collectors just call it the Albanian SKS.


Chapter 1. pp. 1-17 (noted with an insert, there are no pages 18-22 due to a printer's error)

p.3: Soviet SKS-45 production did not end in "1955" but rather in 1958 with the last three years being the letter guns with well established suffix letters Д, И, К (D, I, K) signifying the years 1956, 1957, and 1958, respectively, as found on other Soviet firearms of that era (e.g. Kalashnikov, Makarov).


Chapter 2. pp. 23-52

p. 23-24: Their hypothesis about the meanings of the letter prefixes coding for 100K letter blocks on Russian SKSs ignores the second letter, has no evidence to support it, and is not presented as being speculative. They claim there are five digits, but there are no five digit serial numbers observed on Russians, they are all 4 digits or less. My hypothesis: the first letter in the two letter block of Tula SKS-45s is a date code; proposed to be a month code for 1949-54 Tulas, a semester code in 1955 (or only two months of production observed), and a bimonthly code in 1956-58 (i.e. each letter represents a two month production period). The second letter likely signifies a 10K letter block within the month. Alternative hypotheses are possible.

p. 25: The Chinese Type 56 dating scheme for Jianshe is described with the 1956 + millions digit = year of manufacture, with those under a million, and the letter guns, being first year. The letter guns are described as being pre-numbered Russians with a Cyrillic letter added by the Chinese. The arsenals other than Jianshe can't be dated is implied here as well. The letter guns are clearly later production based on their features and used Latin alphabet letters, not Cyrillic. They state M21s were made for the civilian market, which is not consistent with the current hypothesis that the early M21s were meant to be provided as aid (substantiated). The purpose of the later M21s with factory markings, obviously indicating Chinese origin, is less clear. 
See the SKS Files "When was my Chinese Type 56 made?" sticky post: https://sks-files.com/index.php?topic=360.0

p. 27: Regarding North Korean SKSs, "Two digits stamped on the receiver cover are not the year of manufacture; instead, they are a code identifying the factory." It is true that it is not the year of manufacture, but it is not a factory identification code. Actually, the receiver cover has 63식 stamped on it, translating to Type 63, indicating the year of adoption of the design, as is the convention on other North Korean firearms (and Chinese, and Russian).

p. 29: Table 2-1 on the Yugoslavian SKSs was constructed from information obtained from respected and well known Yugoslavian Mausers author Branko Bogdanovic, reportedly compiled from factory records (secondary data, in this case). The table has a number of conflicts with observed serial number data (primary data). It shows a no letter prefix corresponding to serial numbers 1 to 100 in 1961 (presumably the long barrel M59), then another no letter prefix with numbers  1 to 10000 in 1964, an A block from 10000 to 20000, which conflicts with the observed B block serial numbers in the 15000 region only. Then B blocks are reported to run from 20000 to 30000 which conflicts with the observed 15K series of B blocks and runs well into the observed C block numbers (observed C block serial numbers start at ~24700). Finally, the C block M59s are reported in the table as 30000 to 52079. An interesting table, but there are a lot of conflicts between the secondary data and the primary data from actual rifles. Even if all of the no letter and A block serial numbers were later scrubbed and upgraded to M59/66s, the number ranges don't make sense.


I'll admit upfront, that I could be making mistakes here as well, and that my hypotheses could be wrong. Have fun, and think critically  thumb1 :)
« Last Edit: April 17, 2021, 01:28:23 PM by Phosphorus32 »

Offline running-man

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Sniper
  • *
  • Posts: 6855
  • The only way to avoid Mosin #2 is avoid Mosin #1!
Re: Errata: The SKS Carbine (CKC45G), Kehaya and Poyer, 5th edition
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2021, 03:29:55 PM »
Nice job P32!  We can certainly add to this list as necessary.  thumb1

Going to sticky it and I guess I probably beed to pony up for a 5th edition of the book.  Hard for me to comment on something when I haven’t actually read it.  chuckles1
      

Offline Phosphorus32

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+13)
  • Sniper
  • *
  • Posts: 6796
  • Send lawyers guns and money...uh, skip the lawyers
Re: Errata: The SKS Carbine (CKC45G), Kehaya and Poyer, 5th edition
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2021, 09:08:38 PM »
Thanks RM  :) There’s plenty of material to discuss.

Offline Greasemonkey

  • Professional foul mouth. Banned for life!! Certified Enabler
  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+14)
  • Sniper
  • *
  • Posts: I am a geek!!
  • The only way to avoid SKS #2, is avoid SKS #1!
Re: Errata: The SKS Carbine (CKC45G), Kehaya and Poyer, 5th edition
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2021, 01:56:48 AM »
think1.. OH.... this is gonna be interesting..   :)


Go ahead.. Yugo stocks are teak.. pullhair1 I know...... I know.... that's gonna come up.. go on... get it out.. so I can just go slam my head in a car door now and get it over with..  rofl2
I'm going to make him an offer he can't refuse......

Leave the gun, take the cannoli.

I said I was an addict........I didn't say I had a problem

Offline Loose}{Cannon

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+16)
  • Sniper
  • *
  • Posts: I am a geek!!
  • Constitutional Extremist
Re: Errata: The SKS Carbine (CKC45G), Kehaya and Poyer, 5th edition
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2021, 05:28:15 PM »
 thumb1
      
1776 will commence again if you try to take our firearms... It doesn't matter how many Lenins you get out on the street begging for them to be taken.