Some SKS shooting observations...

[Power Surge]

I don't consider myself to be an expert on the subject, but I do shoot my SKS's several times a month, so I've got some good seat time. I just wanted to share some of my experiences, and maybe get some other people's thoughts.

I always shoot my SKS's open sights, and usually either 50 or 100 yards at the local range. I average 3 inch groups at the 50, and 4-6 inch on the 100. Honestly, I think the rifle is only limited by my eyesight.

One observation I have noticed, is between trigger groups. I have two guns with milled trigger groups, and three guns with stamped. Both have similar action to the movement, however the stamped trigger groups are WAYYYY smoother than the milled. And any experienced shooter knows...the majority of your accuracy is in the trigger smoothness.

Another thing I have noticed, is how the shots group based on bench grip. There are two methods generally used when resting the front of the rifle on something. You can grip the fore end of the rifle with your off hand, or you can bring your off hand back towards your body and use it to steady the rear of the stock. I have noticed that groups are tighter with gripping the front of the gun and very gently pulling it down on the rest. Of the the main reasons for this, is because the SKS has very LONG action. And a gun with long action will bounce your trajectory around more. So it helps to stabilize the front of the rifle from jumping up which can start to take place before the bullet has left the barrel.

Something else I have noticed, is during aiming the rifle. The SKS has that full circle front sight. I have noticed that most AKs and some of the commercial modded SKS's have the top of the circle removed. And I think I know why they went to that design change.....   When aiming an SKS, if I look at my target OUTSIDE of the sight circle, it's nice and clear. If I maintain my sight on the target and then bring the target INTO the sight circle...it blurs. Everything inside the circle becomes less clear. Try it....  Look at something far away outside the circle, and then move what you're looking at into the circle...it will be less crisp. Then move it back outside the circle, and it clears up again. I'm sure it's one of those weird physics things that affect how your eyes focus, but whatever the cause it affects aiming with a full circle front sight. I tried this exercise with a friend's open cut AK and the target never blurred.

Now here's an interesting one. We've discussed before shooting with and without the bayo extended. I have heard conflicting results. But most of what I've read was consistent in one aspect... people shooting with BLADE bayos extended reported worse groups, and people shooting with SPIKE bayos extended reported better groups. This was my experience as well, getting worse groups from my blade yugo, and better groups from my 73 spike Type 56. Until today, that is! Today, I tried shooting spike bayo extended on my new 10 mil gun. I took 10 shots with it put away...a decent 4" group. Loaded another 10 rounds, flipped the bayo open, started with 3 shots.... checked the spotting scope... WTF? I don't even see them on the paper. Started looking around and there they were.... 12 inches straight down from the center of the target on the cardboard! And it was a tight 3 round group, but I was amazed what happened to the impact point. Then I folded it back away and fired the other 7 shots...right on target center. Weird!

One more thing I have noticed, is with my SKS-M. I have never had anything that used AK mags, but it seems if I load a mag with the top round to the left, the gun won't feed it. But if the top round is to the right, feeds perfect.

Anyway, these are my SKS observations. I would love to hear thoughts on what I've posted, as well as things other people have noticed shooting these fine carbines!

[armedhippie]

One more thing I have noticed, is with my SKS-M. I have never had anything that used AK mags, but it seems if I load a mag with the top round to the left, the gun won't feed it. But if the top round is to the right, feeds perfect.

When you say top round to the right or left....are you meaning  different amounts of rounds in the mag? Asking because it should be the same side every time when fully loaded. If not somethings not quite right in how their stacked and would cause problems.

I've been wanting to ask you about your 10 rounders anyway since I read you mentioning them. I collect AK mags ( different countries and different capacities, I've got a pic somewhere if I can find it) and I've been looking for an "honest" 10 rounder. Most all mags that are listed as 10 rounders are actually 5 rounders. The size of the mag itself IS the size for 10 rounds but the follower allows only 5 because of stability issues if shortened to allow 10 to fit.

You can cut the follower down and fit 10 but then the mag will have issues. Tapco makes a 10 round follower to replace the existing 1 but I've read it as issues as well. If you know where to get some , if you could point me in the right direction that would be awesome. I rarely order stuff as I like the thrill of the hunt and like to see to whom my money goes but...I've been hunting a while for a 10 rounder.

Keep up the good work, The bayo in or extended has always had my interest and I rarely get to shoot much these days myself. But for scientific purposes You really need to get an early bladed chi-com instead of a YUGO ( added weight of the grenade launcher and all) Plus it would make LC's day to see you add 1 

Oh and a lil tip when loading AK mags....give 'em a good whack with your hand every so many rounds while loading, It helps them seat properly. Another question...Are your mags flat backed or ridge backed?

[Power Surge]

One more thing I have noticed, is with my SKS-M. I have never had anything that used AK mags, but it seems if I load a mag with the top round to the left, the gun won't feed it. But if the top round is to the right, feeds perfect.

When you say top round to the right or left....are you meaning  different amounts of rounds in the mag? Asking because it should be the same side every time when fully loaded. If not somethings not quite right in how their stacked and would cause problems.

I've been wanting to ask you about your 10 rounders anyway since I read you mentioning them. I collect AK mags ( different countries and different capacities, I've got a pic somewhere if I can find it) and I've been looking for an "honest" 10 rounder. Most all mags that are listed as 10 rounders are actually 5 rounders. The size of the mag itself IS the size for 10 rounds but the follower allows only 5 because of stability issues if shortened to allow 10 to fit.

You can cut the follower down and fit 10 but then the mag will have issues. Tapco makes a 10 round follower to replace the existing 1 but I've read it as issues as well. If you know where to get some , if you could point me in the right direction that would be awesome. I rarely order stuff as I like the thrill of the hunt and like to see to whom my money goes but...I've been hunting a while for a 10 rounder.

Keep up the good work, The bayo in or extended has always had my interest and I rarely get to shoot much these days myself. But for scientific purposes You really need to get an early bladed chi-com instead of a YUGO ( added weight of the grenade launcher and all) Plus it would make LC's day to see you add 1 

Oh and a lil tip when loading AK mags....give 'em a good whack with your hand every so many rounds while loading, It helps them seat properly. Another question...Are your mags flat backed or ridge backed?

I don't know crap about AK mags....but I've been researching, lol. I got 6 30 rounders with the Sporter I just bought. I think 4 of them are romainian (stamped 0 on the ridge and has a 90 degree end to the top rib), one is a flat backed chinese, and I THINK the other one may be egyptian. The 10 rounder I have, I am not sure, there are no markings, but the best way I can describe it is that it looks like a short version of the romainian ones.

On the feed issue....I just loaded 10 into it, and the 10th one winds up on the left side of the mag. If I try to load that one, it goes up into the chamber partially and gets stuck there at an angle. I have to drop the mag for it to fall out. At that point, the next round is on the right side of the mag, and that one loads fine.

[Loose}{Cannon]

I guess everyone has their own shooting styles whether its at the bench, offhand, prone etc. I dont find myself changing up what works for me for experimental purposes. 

I don't have any fsb hood issues with focus either. Having rifles with both open and closed, I have never had or observed any blurring from one to the next.  I can say this... virtually all competition bench guns with iron sights have a hood of various diameters and depths.  I have many match guns with this type of front sights working in conjunction with a peep rear.

I believe the bayo extended or retracted accuracy debate is all over the map because of physics.  It completely changes the harmonics which will vary drastically between one rifle to the next based on a whole slew of factors.  Anything such as the barreled receivers natural homonics stemming from pinned/threaded, barrel diameter, tightness of pressed barrel components, tightness of the trigger to stock, barrel OD variations, journal start/stop locations and length, to even the steel itself and its tempering.  And dint forget the stocks role in harmonics ranging from type/density of wood, fitment/tightness to the side walls of the reciver, fitment/tightness at the front ferrule, and dont forget about the crossbolt and the stocks overall fitment to the barreled action in general. Another contributing factor can be the gas-tube as it spans some distance anchored to the barrel at two locations. Does a tight gastube help control vertical barrel whip?  Who knows, but I'm willing to bet that it does.  Basically what I'm saying is...  there is already 600 variables at play, adding the bayo extended vs retracted can alter the harmonics which will either improve groups or make them worse.

Just my .02¢

[Loose}{Cannon]

Example..

One of the oldest tricks in the book is to take a thin piece of cardboard paper from say a matchbook cover or from an empty case if beer, and place it in the channel between the stock and barrel when you place the actions in the stock.  You can then play with the harmonics by sliding it forward and back to experiment with it in dif locations. How tight you have the action mounting screws and which you tighten first plays a role aswell.  Many accuracy shooters will use a torque screwdriver and return them to the exact same torque every time etc.

[Dannyboy53]

Fascinating thread Power Surge, and some very interesting suggestions from everyone. My biggest problem is sunlight reflecting (glaring!) off my sights. Years ago someone told me to hold a lighted wooden match under the front and rear sights (turn the rifle over of course) and blacken the sights. It makes a world of difference for me and simply wipes off when you clean the firearm.

[armedhippie]

Hey Surge... Been studying on your feed issues. As you know,When an AK mag is fully loaded, the top round is on the left but when a SKS fixed mag is fully loaded...the top round is on the right.

When I slowly let the bolt carrier go forward when loading the 1st round of a fixed mag...smooth as silk. When slowly loading the 2nd rd of fixed mag...it gets jammed to the left side of the chamber. ( NOTE:  as of now I've been trying with Hollow Points, will try again with FMJ) Now the SKS ( and AK as well) were not meant to be slowly chambered but pulled back fast and let go as to let the bolt carrier "slam" the 1st rd into chamber.

Do you happen to ride the bolt carrier forward at all when chambering the 1st rd or do you let go of the bolt carrier completely? I could see how this could lead to jamming on the 1st round from an AK mag. During normal cycling, the bolt carrier is moving forward hard when chambering a round from the left.

I don't own a AK mag using SKS model yet ( Just a matter of time though  ) but as far as I know that area of the chamber was not changed from regular SKS specs. While an SKS doesn't have much of what would be considered a feed ramp, You could try polishing up the left side of the edge of the chamber to smooth things up.

On the feed issue....I just loaded 10 into it, and the 10th one winds up on the left side of the mag. If I try to load that one, it goes up into the chamber partially and gets stuck there at an angle. I have to drop the mag for it to fall out. At that point, the next round is on the right side of the mag, and that one loads fine.

 Found a pic of some of my mags...



Bottom right corner is 1 of the 5 rd "but would fit 10 with shortened follower" chinese mags.

The top row are all chinese flat backed and the top right is still in cosmo and plastic with a big NORINCO logo sticker on it  ( A jewel I found in my favorite local pawn shop) Same shop is where I found the 40 rd chinese mag bottom middle....Only 1 I've ever found. I've yet to add any YUGO BHO mags though. I like the thrill of the hunt but if I don't find 1 soon, I'm gonna have to order some.

Could you post a pic or 2 of your 10 rounders when you get a chance? I would love a look see.

[Power Surge]

Hey AH, I was hoping you'd chime back in

I did some testing just now...  10 round mag loaded, first round to the left, pull the handle back and watch it slowly feed the left side round. What happens is the round stays in the mag so long that the angle of the round gets really severe and gets stuck going into the chamber. Here's a pic of it stuck, notice the rim of the case hung up on the very tip of the feed ramp...



Now, I pulled that round out, and tried the same thing with the next RIGHT side loaded round. This time, the round pops out of the mag and into a straighter shot into the chamber. So I'm thinking, "well maybe the tip of that 10 round mag just needs a quick hit with a file, but let me try a 30 rounder first". Well...same thing. So I start thinking. The gun cycles left side rounds no problem under it's own action. Let me try letting the bolt "slam" home like hippie suggested. Yep...it shoves it in there. A look at the ejected round after doing that does show some trauma to the case from being forced in at that angle, but it still loaded fine letting it slam home .

And here's your requested 10 round pics. I figured you'd wand to see the internals as well....

[Dannyboy53]

Our youngest daughter called after getting her first .45 auto complaining to me about feed problems when she loaded the top round. When we got together to check it out I noticed she was riding the slide as it closed. After I told her to pull the slide to the rear and release it, there were no more problems!

I have never run into the left-right top round feeding problems so I'm no help there...sorry! Are all your magazines doing this consistantly and in every carbine?