SKS Magazine Lock-in and Trigger Group Attachment Question

[newuserwithaquestion]

Hello,
This is my first time re-assembling my Chinese surplus SKS. Attempting to lock in the magazine, I find that it locks in via its hook, but that the wider end where the trigger group is supposed to fit around does not go down far enough(I believe), and therefore it seems that I cannot complete the installation. Please see the pictures below for clarification:

This is what the magazine looks like when the frontal, thinner portion hooks in(I am only doing it off of the stock for the purpose of taking pictures):


Although the front part is hooked in as pictured above - and while perhaps this is how it is supposed  to look - with the front part hooked in above, I don't think that the wider, back portion of the magazine is going down or can go down far enough. Trying to fit the trigger group into its slot, it will simply not go in:


This is how I think the back portion of the magazine is supposed to look in order to complete the assembly. When it looks like this, I can fit the trigger group into its slot:


But, the problem is that I can only get the back of the magazine to look like this when the front portion of the magazine is not hooked in:


Therefore, I am currently here:


My thoughts:
-I am new to this, so maybe I am missing something that seems obvious to you guys.
-Maybe I just need to apply a lot of pressure to the top of the magazine in order get the wider portion down far enough to be able to attach the trigger group properly?
-Maybe I am wrong about how far the magazine needs to go in(I don't think so)?

Also:
-The bolt is not attached.
-The trigger is on safe.

Nevertheless, I am asking for help as you are knowledgeable about this and I do not want to break anything.

Thank you for the interest.

[running-man]

Welcome to the boards!

First question is whether the magazine is S/N'd the same as the rest of the carbine?  (From the looks of the short barrel lug & RSB it appears to be a mid-year Chinese type 56, likely one of the recent Sino-Banian imports with maybe a duplicate S/N that was restamped with the pin punch at import for it to be that far back?)

Is this a new (to you) carbine that you know has had the magazine correctly in place or is this the way it arrived to you?  Is there some gunk in the receiver magwell area that's preventing the magazine from being able to fully seat?

I don't think you're missing anything in your thought process.  SKS magazines tend to fit relatively tight and if the magazine cannot be pushed into place in a stripped receiver something is obviously off.  Good of you to mention that the bolt is out and the trigger group safety is on, those are the first two rookie mistakes on these: to try to install or remove a magazine with the bolt in battery (magazine feed lips in the slots of the bolt prevent this) and to try to reinstall the TG with the safety off (SImonov's design prevents this unless enough force is used to deform and eventually break the tang on the safety)!

I've seen mismatched magazines fail to seat fully because they are just a tad too long.  The forward hook engages, but in a way that the rear section is a few thousandths from being able to go in nicely.  If this is the case with yours (which it looks like from your description and photos) taking the smallest amount of material off the front of the magazine where the hook seats with a light file is probably your best bet at a permanent fix.  Maybe before taking any material off, see if you can try another magazine in this gun, or this magazine in another gun to see how close you are to good fitment? 

I've seen guys force fit really tight magazines like this (never ends well because that magazine has to come back out at some point in time right?) and I've also seen instances where bubba takes a Dremel and proceeds to gnaw off portions of the rear magazine where the trigger group comes in contact with the mag (makes me want to cry when I see the resultant carnage but I guess eventually it fits...)

Others may have different ideas, but that's mine!  Good luck! 

[newuserwithaquestion]

Hello,

Thank you runningman for the advice. This gun came to me assembled and in cosmoline. The serial numbers do match. It seems to come from the 1962-1969 era based on the serial number guide on this website.

So, following your advice, I took a few more wipes to the interior of the gun where the magazine locks in - there was no oily cosmoline, but there was a very small amount of black dust that seemed to be pretty well stuck on as I had wiped the area before(from my experience cleaning the other cosmoline, I am guessing that it is dried cosmoline powder residue or something odd like that?). It was still tight, but I am applied a downward and specifically rightward motion to the right side of the magazine and it finally locked in correctly.

Like you said, it is a tight fit - though now it definitely does fit(it doesn't feel forced). I am also wondering if this is a design feature of some sort in order to give the magazine a securer fit(probably with small variations depending on the year of make of the gun, and how it was treated before coming into my/our possession)? I don't know. I do know that other parts of the gun(like the trigger group) are also known to have a tight fit. So, maybe it is intentional and not just due to years in storage/of use? Who knows! Maybe others have also noticed this?

Now it is on to the task of connecting the trigger group. The only way I had been able to attach it in the past is with a cloth(to prevent scratches) and a wooden hammer(and that was when the magazine was improperly attached; so I attached it and then the magazine halfway fell out, as it was not connected in the front .) That said, the hammer method is now not working this time around; I remember before that I basically had to spend hours with it until finally I got the right place and it finally locked in.

That said, and I am sorry to bother you again, but do you have any advice about the insertion of the trigger group? I did the extra cleaning of it and the interior where it is supposed to sit(like you said for the magazine) and I am still having the same problem. Maybe I will have to do a sort of sideways motion in order to lock it in(like with the magazine. Have you heard of this necessity for sideways motion during trigger group insertion before with other SKSes?)? I don't know - I remember from other posts here in the past that the thought of using a hammer seemed excessive to many, so maybe there is another way?

Well, every gun is unique!

Thank you once again.

[Phosphorus32]

Welcome to the forum!

Depending on the gun and its stock inletting, getting the trigger group to catch on the rear retainer tab/tang can take a light tap to a very hard rap.

[running-man]

Never think you are bothering with questions.  It's what this site exists for!  It's kind of slow here towards the end of the summer but there are many very knowledgable guys here who can help you out with this one.

I'm glad you got that mag to seat.  Like I said, a few thousandths makes all the difference.  It should be snug, but not so tight that you need to do anything special to get it to fit.  If everything is as tight as you say, I would guess there is either accumulated residue / dried preservative in some of the nooks and crannies or the gun was simply not used / maintained all that much.

As for the trigger group specifically, those are often hard to impossible depending on the fit of both it and of the magazine.  I've heard of guys using mallets to tap it in, and while that is not my first choice is certainly a method that has worked for guys in the past.  I prefer this method:

• With the bolt, carrier, and receiver cover OFF (so it can rest on the rear portion of the receiver itself), lay the barreled receiver installed in the stock upside down on a towel folded on itself 3 or 4 times on the ground so the gun stays stable in one spot.
• Insert the magazine and seat the mag body as fully as possible.
• Grab the trigger group and ensure the safety is ON and the hammer is cocked.
• Insert the pins of the TG into the forks on the bottom side of the receiver.
• Cam the trigger group into place, ensuring that the disconnector and hammer fit in their respective slots and that the disassembly tang at the back of the receiver is going to line up with the hole in the rear of the TG.  The front of the TG near the pins should also be properly positioned over the welded boss portion of the magazine.
• Straddle the carbine and place the palms of both hands on the trigger guard & push *hard*.  You are fighting the little spring on the bottom of the stock as well as the disassembly tang's spring-like release tab on the receiver.

With all my body weight in this position (and I'm not exactly a big guy: 5'5 3/4" / 130 lb.), I have yet to find a TG that I can't get back in place.

If you have a just-barely-fitting magazine, and the mallet doesn't work, this method may not work either.  Sometimes they just won't go.  If you can get the TG in place easily with this method *without* the magazine in place, I'd say too tight a mag fitment is the problem.  At that point I'd be reliving a few thousandths off the front of the magazine with a small riffler file as I described in my first post to give yourself some clearance.  That's very likely that is where your issues are.

Some guys like to put the TG in place on a gun w/o the stock, and that works well to visualize if there are areas of concern.  Just know that getting that TG back off is sometimes a real b*tch w/o that little helper spring on the stock!!!

[newuserwithaquestion]

Thank you,

Well, I finally got it completely assembled. It took 2 people(one holding the front of the gun) and myself hitting the trigger group into place with a wooden mallet(with a cloth over the trigger group to prevent damage).

I have done something similar to what you said before too(that was the first time, and the magazine fell out too, because I was not locking it into place ). I believe that I positioned the front of the barrel so that it was touching the wall to prevent movement and maximize force, while laying the rifle on the ground with a cloth underneath as suggested.

I can say based on the my experience, the advice gotten, and videos that I have seen that the trigger groups of these weapons can definitely vary a lot. With some, they seem to lock into place with very little force applied, some take a little more, some more still, and some feel almost impossible to lock in without the use of tools such as hammers, etc. I even saw one video where the guy someone managed to lock the magazine and trigger group in with the bolt attached.

I also kept reducing the force of the hammer strike as I did not want to damage anything, which meant that the trigger group would not go into place fully.

So, I think in conclusion:

One's SKS might be different than mine, and have the trigger group lock in easily; or, as runningman described, you might have to file off an extremely small portion of the magazine(which obviously should be done only when the other options definitely won't work). Or, it might be similar to the experience that I had, in which case you should not expect something other than applying massive force to the trigger group to lock it in. Also, do not hesitate to wipe down the trigger group, magazine, and their holding areas a few extra times to try to get out even just an extremely small amount of dirt/dried cosmoline/whatever(this applies even if you had already cleaned them as I did; sometimes even a few infinitesimally-small bits remain and can hinder the parts locking in). This was runningman's advice, and following it my magazine went into place when it previously wasn't; this could also help with the trigger group, if whatever space that grime is taking up is preventing/making it more difficult for the trigger group to fit in and lock in. When it is said that these guns have tight fits, it is definitely true!

Thank you runningman once again for the help!

[running-man]

Glad you got it in! 

It certainly sounds like it's quite the tight fit!  I would guess that Simonov did not intend this to be a two man + a small mallet operation though. 

Use and enjoy your new carbine.  At some point if the fit bothers you (honestly, it's bothering me and I'm just sitting here typing!) you can address it in the future.

Glad to have you on the boards.