SKS-FILES FORUM
General Milsurp Weapons => Milsurp Hand Guns & Sub Guns => Topic started by: Direct Connection on June 03, 2018, 05:44:01 PM
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My Boss inherited it from his Mom and Pops who got it from a neighbor who served in the Navy during WWII. He brought it back. I know nothing or very little about these master pieces but I told my boss I have a good source of friends that might know just enough about these little firecrackers to be dangerous : ) Joking !! Please Help.. He also inherited 1 Russian SkS and when I found out about that we became even better friends : ) Please comments and knowledge are welcome !! If more pictures are needed or questions PLEASE !!!! ask.... thumb1 Oh , And I don't know what the notches are from on the grips but I could almost guess .. fart1
(https://image.ibb.co/g8mTAy/167ca1270206b15baabb_1.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://image.ibb.co/mj0Ycd/167ca1270206b15baabb_2.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://image.ibb.co/gGLMVy/167ca1270206b15baabb_3.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://image.ibb.co/kP1TAy/167ca1270206b15baabb_4.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://image.ibb.co/gGLMVy/167ca1270206b15baabb_3.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://image.ibb.co/f1Vc3J/167ca1270206b15baabb_6.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://image.ibb.co/jHugVy/167ca1270206b15baabb_7.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://image.ibb.co/ghc1Vy/167ca1270206b15baabb_8.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://image.ibb.co/iYvoAy/167ca1270206b15baabb_9.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://image.ibb.co/cc16xd/167ca1270206b15baabb_10.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://preview.ibb.co/eMfYcd/clicklarge3.gif) (https://imgbb.com/)
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Well thats nice.. thumb1
I'd guess its a mid 30's example and maybe a DWM or marked S/42, I have a few myself, but my Lugerese is a little rusty. I think aluminum base mags started in the mid' 30s, by a late 1937 they quit using straw colored parts, like the trigger and such.
I'm guessing at the year and maker above... I didn't see a photo of the top of the receiver, the year is usually stamped there and maker is usually stamped on the toggle link.
Is it number matching, every little part should be stamped, even the firing pin. If the magazine matches, that even better. It does have the usually military acceptance stamps.
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That's awesome DC, your boss is quite lucky. thumb1
I can't add anything to what GM said, I have zero knowledge of German arms; WWII vintage or not. Hopefully Donp will be around, that guy is a verifiable walking encyclopedia of Luger knowledge, he'll be able to tell you darn near every minute detail you want to know about it I bet.
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:o
Very nice!
Better message Blicero!
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Nice! 8) I don't have much to add except the 8.82 is the original measured diameter of the bore on this particular barrel.
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(https://preview.ibb.co/fBF8v8/20180601_094930.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cEnz2o)
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(https://preview.ibb.co/fBF8v8/20180601_094930.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cEnz2o)
Thanks everyone. I knew I didn't take enough pictures. But I thought I saw a mark that looked like the year of 1918 but im not sure now. and of course i missed that pic. I wrote down notes and will take and post up more pictures tomorrow. I found 1 more pic on my phone with the mag. I forgot to mention that the mag was loaded with some old milsurp ammo with the red sealant around the primer. Ill get a pic of the base of a bullet also. Thanks GM .. Really good stuff ! What does DWM and s42 mean if you don't mind wink1 Gotta remember who your dealing with here chuckles1 Ill look again at the numbers on the mag to compare if they match..
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Nice! 8) I don't have much to add except the 8.82 is the original measured diameter of the bore on this particular barrel.
Got It : ) Thanks Phos.. Every little bit helps thumb1 I see that number now..
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Does it speak German?
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Does it speak German?
Ill bet is still has an accent if it doesn't LC.. Those marks on the grip sure are a little creepy.. And that kinda stuff is what makes milsurp so interesting.. One can paint a picture : )
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DWM is Deutsche Waffen und Munitionsfabriken... in 1930-1930-ish Mauser absorbed DWM, then at some point, I think it went to S/42 which was Mauser, there were other codes used as well. Germany had a huge list of codes to hide the actual manufacture of weapons.
If the pistol is dated 1918, the magazine should have a wood base if original.
Get a shot of it like this.. this is my 1913 Erfurt, the maker will be stamped in the toggle link as shown. The year is commonly stamped above the chamber. This a commercial model that was drawn into WW1.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/qrhhmmiv2o2gm9r/HPIM0296_zps61e66632.jpg?dl=0)
This shows what wood base magazines look like, they are both matching, and the clamshell holster.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/9qmvrkptvm36eko/HPIM0293_zps6ec2859c.jpg?dl=0)
I knew I didn't take enough pictures.
Dude...it's a Luger, you can never take enough pictures. chuckles1 This is why I bought a commercial mismatched Luger.. it resolved the guilt of shooting the others when the urge struck, if I break it, I just fix it and have no hard feelings. chuckles1
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Thanks GM for all the help. I got a few more pics today. I guess I need to change my title to WWI ? I cant believe these semi auto pistols were made over 100 years ago. No wonder they had an advantage : ) I kinda want one now..
https://www.use.com/Og18N?pop=false
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The magazine is from a later Luger, in the end, it's typical for most bringbacks, like K98 bolts sometimes not matching, the mag got lost before it makes it back to the states or gets lost to sands of time here in the states.. Who knows when it came here, could have been during either WW1 or WW2. Only the man who picked it up knows.
The ammo, regrettably, is typical Seller and Bellot modern stuff.
The Luger is pretty much the original wonder 9, 9mm Luger.. every 9mm since is because of that pistol. As for advantage, yes and no, compared to what we and other nations had for arms during that time frame, they were very futuristic, but close tolerances, hand fitted parts and an over complicated....err, over engineered action could cause issues when extremely dirty or when replacement parts were needed.
It's a real mind f*&k when you sit down with one, you wish they could talk, but secretly, deep down, you don't really want to hear or even imagine what they did or saw. nea1
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Bah.... I'll give you $750 for it so you can use it towards a good one. Just this one time though because your my buddy and I feel bad.
:))
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As GM called it, WWI era DWM with WWII era aluminum bottom mag.
Even without the picture of the top chamber and toggle in the OP, the Imperial inspector and army acceptance marks on the right side barrel extension dated this gun to 1918 or earlier.
Tough to call which war it became a souvenir, but the later mag is a slight hint. If it was WWII, it was one of a fair number of examples which escaped the Treaty of Versailles directive, which essentially destroyed all army 9mm guns, or updated them with a sear safety for police use. These post-treaty Police Lugers were still allowed in 9mm, and will generally have a second date (1920) stamped over the chamber area, the retrofitted safety, and/or additional police unit markings.
DWM also continued new production of what are nicknamed the Alphabet Lugers from roughly 1920 through about 1923 for commercial, police and paramilitary use, in .30 luger caliber. And also made 9mm Weimar military and police units through approx. 1933.
As previously mentioned, a fair number of WWI era Lugers survived through the Weimar Period without being converted to police standards, and came back out of hiding in the early to mid-1930s when the Nazi Party came to rule.
The grip carvings are assuredly non-German Army from either war, and could have been from post-WWI paramilitary, resistance faction, or post-capture by an Allied force.
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About the only thing I can add.. :)
In 1916, there were according to the list I have, about 140,000 of them made, it was the highest production year of that variant. DWM made just over 500k Lugers from 1913 to 1918, the model is listed as the 1914 Military.
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Here is a 1912 Erfurt factory Luger which likely went into hiding after WWI, and survived to fight again for Germany in WWII. It escaped the Treaty of Versailles destruction, markings or conversion to Police. I bought it from the brother in law of the deceased Veteran who brought it back from Paris in 1945.
Two mags are unmatched WWII with aluminum bottom, one post war with plastic bottom, and the other is WWI wooden bottom but mismatched.
(https://i.imgur.com/g6QJKdll.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/7AcrMAOl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/MrMLFOsl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/nJiG8uol.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/H5Ta4LKl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/GanBksrl.jpg)
Next is another DWM from 1916. It also survived WWI and post-war destruction or Police conversion. But it has somewhat unknown marking (suspected pre-1922 Reicshwehr-era Police or paramilitary?). VERY interestingly, the 1915 Hohmann & Sohn holster has the date of the pistol, the original serial (twice), and the new unit numbers stamped on the back.
This one has a mismatched WWI mag with wooden bottom, and is also very likely to be a WWII bringback, but could be post-WWI occupation.
(https://i.imgur.com/6rO9xWil.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/xG5VlNVl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/meXk1fIl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/0EvxHKKl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/71xyMkxl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/pzlvSHkl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/P7wSePel.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/qRcCAWpl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/TXD5e7Sl.jpg)
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Along with what M08 has shown, and hand in hand with the one you show, the 1914 Military model in 1916, DWM was also producing these during the same time period... the LP.08 or also known as the Lange Pistole 08 or the Artillery Luger. Luckily, this one has the serial matching magazine.
There was also quite a contrast to production, 140,000 of the 1914s Military model made in 1916, where only 20,000 Artillery Lugers were made the same year., with around 155,000 LP.08s made in total from 1914 to 1918.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/7ko7utbzky5qrpp/SAM_1688_zps45flqpdf.jpg?dl=0)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/tsr6o1qasq0is3d/SAM_1687_zpsjyad7dn7.jpg?dl=0)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/jsbpleyfn1d6rf6/SAM_1689_zpswhfjthbx.jpg?dl=0)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/2bcunbcve2uq3zs/SAM_1694_zpsfii1l6or.jpg?dl=0)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/xy23zr1cev1iwn5/SAM_1695_zpsdik7ugzf.jpg?dl=0)
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Come on GM !! We need your support to thus thread 😁 You have got to have more to ad !! When you going to break out your sleeper ?? Ha ha ha ha.. un reareal ... Thanks M08 for your support .. always makes a thread priceless when you two contribute to me possibly getting a raise at work 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 This is really good stuff. Thanks Everyone.. And keep em coming 😊
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Nice, honest and original Artillery, GM. All I've run across at shows are the 1920s rebuilds or fakes, but would snap up one like that in a second!
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Fantastic Lugers! :o
One with a matching holster...an artillery luger... drool2
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Sleeper... I don't know if I would call them that, they are just Lugers. chuckles1
The only others I have that would be worthy.. aside from the beater, which I ain't showing cause it's like I said, it's fugly, OK..I never photoed it cause it's ugly. :)
a '37 S/42...Mauser made, last year for the straw colored parts. 1 matching magazine, one not matching and a repro P.38 holster.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/h5vsb928tk9wpkv/HPIM0820_zpsd1f7784c.jpg?dl=0)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/8zcyhse3pe25laj/HPIM0819_zpsbb4da1c0.jpg?dl=0)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/vkljkgmampj6a47/HPIM0821_zpsf343c1d8.jpg?dl=0)
My '38 S/42...again Mauser made, with the correct Luger clamshell holster and the actual takedown tool.. note the straw colored parts have vanished on this one. the trigger is blued now vs. the '37 above.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/g5zfgpw1a8w1k35/HPIM0795.JPG?dl=0)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/koxyix1fs1fpd2r/HPIM0796.JPG?dl=0)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/dshorlud9zfsv6d/top.JPG?dl=0)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/2wn93pq4mi3n2wm/left.JPG?dl=0)
One thing that may make the 1938 a sleeper, is there is no guessing what it's story is or where it came from. She's got papers to prove her story.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/ttu66wfhusqlfsu/HPIM1112.JPG?dl=0)
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And laugh as you might... :)) but this Stoeger .22lr Luger was actually produced under license of Luger.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/fqy16u2xd0sw2gm/SAM_2173_zpsshxri2ex.jpg?dl=0)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/b4y342rxiwv9nfy/SAM_2170_zps9tqhigge.jpg?dl=0)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/mxpmeoygi4tw1yd/SAM_2184_zpsww6g1isf.jpg?dl=0)
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Nice Lugar's. That is the only WII gun I have side stepped. Don't even have one in my collection. I know very little about them. The P.38, Sauer and Sohn Model 38 and H model and the Mauser HSc are my main interest.
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And laugh as you might... :)) but this Stoeger .22lr Luger was actually produced under license of Luger.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/fqy16u2xd0sw2gm/SAM_2173_zpsshxri2ex.jpg?dl=0)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/b4y342rxiwv9nfy/SAM_2170_zps9tqhigge.jpg?dl=0)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/mxpmeoygi4tw1yd/SAM_2184_zpsww6g1isf.jpg?dl=0)
I think were reaching the bottom of GM's Barrel ,, But I aint holding my breath because then here come the Albanian, Lugers Romanian Lugers Yugoslavian Lugers , Lugers Lugers Ooooh Boy here they come : ) ha ha ha ha ha ha
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With what they cost anymore... I'm surprised I, no, I've been lucky I was able to acquire just under half a bucket, much less a whole barrel rofl2
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And laugh as you might... :)) but this Stoeger .22lr Luger was actually produced under license of Luger.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/fqy16u2xd0sw2gm/SAM_2173_zpsshxri2ex.jpg?dl=0)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/b4y342rxiwv9nfy/SAM_2170_zps9tqhigge.jpg?dl=0)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/mxpmeoygi4tw1yd/SAM_2184_zpsww6g1isf.jpg?dl=0)
I think were reaching the bottom of GM's Barrel ,, But I aint holding my breath because then here come the Albanian, Lugers Romanian Lugers Yugoslavian Lugers , Lugers Lugers Ooooh Boy here they come : ) ha ha ha ha ha ha
That is a Luger Luger, DC. Sheesh! And you forgot to put Russian (capture) Lugers on the list.
(https://i.imgur.com/mAJY5i2l.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/wGveG7Rl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/SPaiRJpl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/5U1V3bjl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/oYCwybhl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/XrKRjeIl.jpg)
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That's a fine example Martin.. Mintish !! NIB as they say. When did the plastic grips come into play ? Really nice ! Masculine !! Do you still have that really dark 54 Izhevsk laying around still ? Its time to sport that gem in a new thread. Or please pm me pics thumb1 Thats got to be the badest SkS ever ! thankyou
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I can't tell which year the Russian plastic grips were introduced, except to call them post-war replacements. The Russians also re-used the original walnut grips during refurbishment.
The Izhevsk? That's buried in the vault someplace!