Yugo SKS Logbook Clearinghouse

[SKhiSm 59-66A1]

I'm knocking around the feasibility of a logbook clearinghouse and looking for some feedback from Yugo owners. So, if you own a Yugo SKS and had an opportunity to buy the logbook that goes with your rifle would you pay --

1) 12.50 plus s/h for the logbook matching your refurbed rifle

2) 25.00 plus s/h for the original logbook matching your rifle, including build date

Basically, I pulled those numbers down out of the sky with no idea as to what my costs might be in acquiring enough books to make it go. Or how many I could reasonably expect to move to Yugo owners. But, if I see a satisfactory response, I might just have a go at it. As a plus, I would be compiling certain information from every book I handle to be recorded in an open access database.

Yugo owners please check in and let me know your thoughts.

[Worm]

I'd personally pay $10. Unless it was a more rare bird, I may pay $20.

[Loose}{Cannon]

I'd personally pay $10. Unless it was a more rare bird, I may pay $20.

If the logbook serial matched your rifle??...  thats a $25+ item all day long.

Given the amount of rifles imported though, You could spend the rest of your life trying to find just one match.   

[Greasemonkey]

Yea, I would, but I have my doubts to mine being a refurb. When I got my m59/66, it came out of the box slimey with grease, full of dirt and looks like a truck or two ran over it. I bought it back in 1998 when Numrich imported and sold weapons, which is who sold it.

Oh, the good old days $150 OTD for an SKS.

[Loose}{Cannon]

Maybe the logbook for yours would have shown a build date.... refurbished rifles had a rebuild date or nothing.. you read the other thread?

[SKhiSm 59-66A1]

I'd personally pay $10. Unless it was a more rare bird, I may pay $20.

If the logbook serial matched your rifle??...  thats a $25+ item all day long.

Given the amount of rifles imported though, You could spend the rest of your life trying to find just one match.   

That's where it's at right there, in sheer numbers we're talking about enough rifles to fill enough railcars to make a nice long train and at the end of the train, 2 or 3 cars of logbooks probably. I generated the pricing quick-n-dirty based on the idea that sellers are asking 10 $ +/- 2 $, sometimes more, and then you're getting a random book because nobody is selling them other than random pick and who wants that ? I'm betting they don't move very well for those holding them.

So with current asking prices for a random book in mind I thought the above seemed fair for re-uniting owners with an item that adds value to their SKS. Another possibility might be that rather than 1 person trying to acquire a buttload of books, to simply post an internet clearinghouse that gives sellers a place to offer their books, provided that they post them by serial number. If you could convince sellers holding large numbers of books that aren't moving that doing so would get them moving, ya never know..I also think you could possibly work something in there that would provide the needed info for an open access database gleaned from those books.

[Loose}{Cannon]

Guess I'm a bit confused....   you want to buy up all logbooks you can find and list all the #s for collectors to view hoping to find a match, and at the same time log all the info?

If I had the molla....  perhaps buy out all these books that are not moving at say $5-$7 each (if the sellers go for it) and catalog all info.  Then sell off on feebay for $7-$9.   At lease you could record them all and then make your money back.

[armedhippie]

I can tell ya if some site like SKhiSm mentioned, were to become a reality, I most certainly would buy a matching log book for my Cherry's import YUGO. If it were to be found.

It would really boil down to the number of collectors interested vs the number of shooters/plinkers who could care less.

Either way, I'm all for any info collecting concerning the SKS.

[SKhiSm 59-66A1]

Yeah basically that. One person handling large numbers of books would have the opportunity to glean build dates from those books that have them, along with other build info. The refurb books would still be of value to a database as well even w/o a build date. And either/both type of book of value to the owners of the rifles they go with. I don't see any reason why data of the sort Burton was collecting would create any privacy issues because there's nothing to connect a given database entry to a specific person or location even.

To me, it seems a huge opportunity to expand upon what Burton was doing, and at the same time offer something of value to those who desire it. My big fear would be, how many of these books am I going to eat because the owners of the rifles just don't care. That sort of figured into my initial thoughts on pricing, especially since I've no idea what the costs in acquiring the books might be. I'd never go near this project at 5 - 7 $ a throw though. That's too much per book for the kind of numbers I'd expect to have to eat.

[SKhiSm 59-66A1]

Just to clarify a little, I mentioned an alternate path back there that might be worth discussing. I'd just about bet that these books don't sell worth a damn the way things stand now, because there's little interest in a random book. The sellers don't want to spend their time or pay someone to ID and compile a listing of the books, because they don't realize that one-time investment of a little time is the only thing that will ever get them moving, or that they're worth anything if they did. But if you explained it to them like this - Take the slowest most useless guy you employ, and have him check just the front page (or even snap a well-focused pic), compile a list that includes serial #, Datum Izrade (build date) where one exists, or Datum stamp from the bottom of the page (in the case of refurbs) and...your there. Would you rather have a rack of boxes of books that you can't sell one of at 8$, or sell a fraction of them at 10-15-25 bucks a throw to the people that should have gotten them with their rifles anyway ?

If you could convince sellers with large numbers of books to do that, and give them a place like this, where the buyers are concentrated, to publish their lists..could be everybody wins, and if it doesn't work out for some reason they really haven't lost a whole lot for making the effort. Those books represent the best and really only resource for the data they contain, there's got to be some way to get going sorting this mess out and I really think you could compile a ton of info ala Burton for an open access database at the same time.

Edit..I just realized it would be at least a little more complicated than that. As long as you were at it, you'd just as well sort the books by say 1st 3 digits, and affix a label with complete serial # on the binding so it can be referenced for sale without further sorting. Still not a real big deal the way I see it.

[SKhiSm 59-66A1]

Maybe the logbook for yours would have shown a build date.... refurbished rifles had a rebuild date or nothing.. you read the other thread?

Those are the ones that would do the most to help tighten up Burton's work in regard to letter prefixes vs. build date. And I wholeheartedly believe that in time, rifle owners with build date books in particular, would enjoy an added value to their SKS.

[Justin Hell]

I can tell ya if some site like SKhiSm mentioned, were to become a reality, I most certainly would buy a matching log book for my Cherry's import YUGO. If it were to be found.

It would really boil down to the number of collectors interested vs the number of shooters/plinkers who could care less.

Either way, I'm all for any info collecting concerning the SKS.

+1

I have heard that Cherry's didn't include the log books, or cleaning kits for that matter.  I would certainly be interested.  Wouldn't it be nifty if Cherry's has a box full of them sitting around?

[Greasemonkey]

It's a sound idea in theory, but, a few things possibly could throw a kink in it:


1. Actually hoping to find an actual log book match to a collector who has the corresponding rifle. If it happened and it were me, it's PowerBall time   Alot of threads exist for people trying to match say a Mosin bayonet to a rifle to a thread for PSL-54c mags to the match the correct rifle. 

2. If books are/were acquired, if said rifles were refurbed and assigned new book, how does one know for sure, these books are not remnants of rifles prior to refurb or rifles too worn to be refurbed.. When a book was handed in, "was" it destroyed/incinerated or chunked in a box, thrown in a storage closet, found 30 years later with the idea, "Hey, the Americans will buy these for trinkets" or the Yugoslavs had some room full of people with backdated stamps, signing and stamping all these old blank books, a sh*ts and giggles type thing.

and like discussed above:
3, Actual collectors who actually have an interest in the book vs. the I'm gonna chop, wrap in Tupperware, I don't give a flying rats badonkadonk when, where, who, what oreven why it was made. I would say for every actual true collector there may be 500 or more people who don't really care. So you could buy, say a massive lot of log books for a said price, and have only a handful of buyers or interest..  It would suck to buy say, a 1000 books, and sell, maybe 10, other than the info, it's not much of a return on investment if you were to plan on selling them.


While the info/dates would be truly invaluable, the logistics would be difficult and very time consuming. The capitol up front to purchase something that may, or may not draw much interest is risky, again the info, info that could carry a hefty price when you look at it. What is all the time to research and dig through all of these books worth, time, for lack of a better term is money, so "I", in my mind wonder what or how much worth does one place on just the info. I know information is knowledge and power, but, it will come with a price.

I'm no means trying to discourage anyone, but in the end, reality and the big picture can suck... But then again, what do I know? 

[firstchoice]

  I realize this is a necrothread, but since I'm a newb, I'm enjoying reading these "new-to-me" posts.

  I am curious, SKhiSm 59-66A1, did you ever come to a decision or take the plunge into the logbook redistribution world? I purchased all my 59/66's just before the logbook "option" became wellknown. (to me, anyway) This is something that I would be interested in, as per your question of interest.

  I could imagine the sheer task of storing, sorting, and the initial recording of however much info you had to glean from each book to offer said books for sale. It would seem to be the question of just how efficiently, (fancier word for cheap), that you could purchase the entire inventories from the distributors, etc., who are sitting on unused inventory, taking up somewhat significant storage space? If you could get the logbooks, (forgive me, but wasn't there two seperate books for 59/66's offered? I have no idea what each book offered or recorded. I just remember two...one white, one blue... Oh golly, those '60's party favors are making a full circle again. 

    Whover said it earlier, had the best idea of recording all the "need-to-have-to-list-for-sale" info and simply advertise the list online, wherever. Once the word got out, it's the Collectors that will find you. Then, the secondary market would kick in a bit slower. Those guys that thought that they had no need for it, weren't interested, etc., will come around to  a  degree. There will be a huge number that don't care, or would have if they knew about it, or weren't going through a divorce, etc. It all hinges on how willing the logbook hoarders are to get rid of that mountain of books that are useless without the correct rifle. You may find some that will actually GIVE them to you, especially, if you come pick them up. Whichever route you take, I think that the goal should be to get every logbook that's available, at the absolute bottom dollar cost. Every unattatched logbook in a database.

  I used to do gun shows and one of my "best buddies" was the bulk ammo and crate Nagant dealer. After the sale, he'd tell me to take all the odds and ends left in the crates, (cleaning kits, pouches, oilers, slings, and some of the harder to get brass "buttons" used to attach the loop on the Mausers' slings, etc. Some times, all you have to do is ask.

  If you decide to take on such a daunting task, I would volunteer to help you with a share of the books. To sort, grade, (per your instructions), glean the initial info that you need to get them advertised as for sale, rebox appropriately, and send them on to your distribution point. (If that's the chain of events that you choose) By volunteer, I mean: FREE LABOR. Of course, it has to be within reason. No train car loads, at least the first time. 

BTW, I dig history!

firstchoice

   

 

[SKhiSm 59-66A1]

Thanks fc, I really appreciate that you think enough of the project to offer your help. I did try to get it moving and after meeting with some obstacles I've kinda set it aside, but would be willing to take it up again in the future, or help out someone else who has. I located 2 sellers holding books, one I think is holding maybe a few dozen, he said he'd have to dig them out and then never got back to me. The other was Apex, they said they have a soft count of 2 - 3 hundred. I asked them to donate them to me shipped at my expense, and offered to credit them with the donation and a link to their website posted along with the info. They declined, saying they sell logbooks pretty much weekly. I'm skeptical of that at best, they don't have them serialized and it doesn't seem likely that too many people would throw 8$ at a random book that doesn't connect to a rifle they own, but hey whatever. 

I basically wanted just to add more rifles to the base Withergyld began. I'm awfully glad he did what he did, when he did it, because I think the real trick here is to observe as many unmolested rifles together with their logbooks as possible and of course as time goes by that becomes less possible. Observing logbooks or rifles by themselves certainly does no harm though. I screen grab photos of stamps or other oddities along with s/n where I can. Yugo's don't have nearly the abundance of differing stamps compared to those of other countries and I was hoping to sort out the meaning of the few they do use. It has sure given me an appreciation for the work of the authors of SKS Guide.

One thing I haven't done yet, is to read Branko Blagojevic (Bogdanovic ?) book on Mausers which could shed some light on Yugo stamps. One of the two books people were getting (T-06 or T-60 ?) I think was a manual, instruction for the proper use of the logbook. In any case, I have doubts about pulling together any meaningful number of books at the right money (as near zero as possible) until some other source can be located.

[firstchoice]

  I think you're on the right course of action in looking for large stockpiles of logbooks ad try to pick them up for anything from free, to a little of nothing, all the way up to paying the freight to get them to you!    Have you tried InterOrdnance and the other C&R clearinghouses? And if you get a no to begin with, always ask to speak to at least a second , or maybe third person, that's in a position to know about the books. I agree with all the arguments of large inventory, possible small interest in buying the logbooks, at least at first. It will depend entirely on the two numbers, your cost of the logbooks, and your cost of the start-up of the business. Which will be mostly data entry.
  I like your idea and think it worthy. But hey, I love history, so I'm automatically biased. If you can make it happen, do it and you've got at least one volunteer and a customer, as well! I have eight M59/66's and one M59 that need their logbooks.
  Has anyone thought of taking the format of the original logbook, translate it to English, and put them up for sale for maintenance logbooks on the ones we use now? (basically a blank, unused logbook, in English) I'd buy one for each of mine to log my range trips into. Just a thought.

firstchoice

[SKhiSm 59-66A1]

I hadn't thought of asking importers. I tried to contact Uli Weigand at InterOrdnance a while back trying to establish the facts behind the story of the 500, the 250 +/- Yugo SKS that the gov made them cut up, and the 250 or so that were sold before the gov twigged to it, the group often referred to as the "Wild Ones." I didn't get any answer.

I've seen references that some logbooks were actually in English, but afaIk none of the M59's came with one. That's a very good idea for the maintenance/range book. I don't have a clue what they might cost to produce but I think if they could be priced under 10$ a person might be able to move a few of those.

[jeepguy]

I would gladly pay 25 bucks for the matching logbook for my yugo,  I don't see how any collector wouldn't.  I just don't think I will ever find a match though, it's a needle in a haystack with a thousand variables attached.

[SKhiSm 59-66A1]

I would gladly pay 25 bucks for the matching logbook for my yugo,  I don't see how any collector wouldn't.  I just don't think I will ever find a match though, it's a needle in a haystack with a thousand variables attached.

Yep, that's why I can't really give anything for them. I don't care that much about making any money from it, or the time it takes, but I'd like to break even on what I spend getting them shipped to me and the ROI outlook for this venture is not real good. I don't think I could get books sold weekly the way Apex said they are. Of course, I also don't think that Apex can get books sold weekly the way they said they are. If I were offering them at random as Apex does, I wouldn't feel that I had any reasonable expectation of making back the first dime.

[Loose}{Cannon]

All I wanna know is....    did apex sell guns years ago and keep the books?