SKS-FILES FORUM
General Milsurp Weapons => Milsurp Hand Guns & Sub Guns => Topic started by: Phosphorus32 on January 21, 2019, 05:40:25 PM
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I've wanted a P.38 for a while. Was watching a bunch at a pre-Christmas auction, and, well, uh, if they're going that cheap, I might as well get a representative of all three manufacturers. They arrived last week, so here are a few pictures. Crappy indoor lighting but the bluing is quite nice on the Walther, a bit worn on the Spreewerk, and the phosphate treatment is in good shape on the Mauser. Edge wear, as expected.
Walther designed the Pistole Modell 1938 (P.38) in the late 30's and began production in 1939 but in 1942, two additional manufacturers were added. The Walther (ac code) and Mauser (byf code) were made in August 1943 according to the serial number and letter block tables. The Spreewerk (cyq code) was made in January 1944. Both the ac and cyq are blued while the byf has the grey phosphate (Parkerizing) treatment. Walther, Mauser and Spreewerk produced a total of 585K, 323K and 283K, respectively, for a total of about 1.2M.
None of these are import marked, and none are perfect, but I'm pleased to have filled the hole(s) in the collection :) My depth of knowledge on these is shallow so all input is welcome. Thanks.
(https://i.ibb.co/zZbvy2m/P38-trio-mfr.jpg) (https://ibb.co/FzJTSYh)
(https://i.ibb.co/C04q9Lx/P38-trio-left.jpg) (https://ibb.co/s3ch17L)
(https://i.ibb.co/tHc6PSC/P38-trio-right.jpg) (https://ibb.co/8m2w4J8)
(https://i.ibb.co/VBGPvNL/ac.jpg) (https://ibb.co/q18PRnD)
(https://i.ibb.co/Lv8xwDY/byf.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mSG9srb)
(https://i.ibb.co/DMbzKYb/cyq.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1Xn72Mn)
(https://i.ibb.co/0JrRgS1/ac-dis-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/MN7xY4K)
(https://i.ibb.co/R0psKB0/ac-dis-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HzDbyxz)
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:o drool2 3....that's 1 too many, send the ugly one to me. I only got one P.38.... cry1
My knowledge on a P.38 is about as deep as the non-existent import stamp, I know how to rip it apart, how to put it back together and it's 9mm....thats a start...but hey least I got....one pistol, I also have a super secret all number matching P38 can opener. chuckles1
Nice haul of P38s P32 thumb1 drool2
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You've got it baaaaad P32! Might want to keep that GM guy at arms length for a while, he's clearly a bad influence... chuckles1
Hopefully Donp comes by and tells you everything there is to know about these three! thumb1
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You've got it baaaaad P32! Might want to keep that GM guy at arms length for a while, he's clearly a bad influence... chuckles1
What, what I do now? Hey sometimes an addict doesn't need enabling... He fell off the wagon alone this time..... I had nothing in this one... nea1 he is a closet addict cause he didn't even tell me about this high he got, not even a hint. rofl2
Besides......he is a bad influence too, trust me.. :)
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:o drool2 3....that's 1 too many, send the ugly one to me. I only got one P.38.... cry1
My knowledge on a P.38 is about as deep as the non-existent import stamp, I know how to rip it apart, how to put it back together and it's 9mm....thats a start...but hey least I got....one pistol, I also have a super secret all number matching P38 can opener. chuckles1
Nice haul of P38s P32 thumb1 drool2
Thanks! :)
I mentioned I won a Mauser Oberndorf P.38...I just forgot to mention the other two didnt do
I’d send you the ugly one, for sure, but I can’t seem to find an ugly one thumb1 :))
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You've got it baaaaad P32! Might want to keep that GM guy at arms length for a while, he's clearly a bad influence... chuckles1
Hopefully Donp comes by and tells you everything there is to know about these three! thumb1
1. You’re right, I guess. ??? I mean milsurps do have a tendency to follow me home like a pack of hungry puppies. You can’t just turn them away, right?
2. Yes, it’s GM’s fault
3. Yes input from DonP would be much welcomed!
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Ok... That kinda blame hurt my one and only feeling. rofl2
I know your sitting there... Thinking.. this one here is kinda sorta ugly in it's own way.. :)
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I know your sitting there... Thinking.. this one here is kinda sorta ugly in it's own way.. :)
Hmm, well, not yet. But hey, you’ll be the first to know if I figure it out thumb1
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They make you look fat. fart1
Nice haul... :)
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...all input is welcome.
They make you look fat. fart1
Hmm, well, almost all input is welcome doh1
Nice haul... :)
Thanks! :)
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Naw... Not fat... They are phat! You down wit dat chuckles1
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P32 all your P.38's were made in 1943. To narrow it down a little more, the Walther AC43 was made in July 1943, the Mauser BYF43 was made in August of 1943 the earliest known phosphate coating P.38 in regular production at Mauser in the B block of 1944, I suppose it could have sent back to Mauser for a refinish after its original blue finish was worn and got the phosphate coating then. Your Sprewerk CYQ was made in November of 1943. Your Walther AC43 has the extended cut in the slide this feature in the Walther production were changed in late 1943 the extractor cut was shortened. You can see the shortened extractor cut in the Mauser and the Sprewerk guns and the "hump" in all three guns. The Germans didn't throw anting away, they used the earlier slides until they were gone. The same was true with Mauser and to a lesser extent Sprewerk. When Walther made a change in production the changes were forwarded to Mauser and Sprewerk to make the same change in their P.38 production also.
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P32 all your P.38's were made in 1943. To narrow it down a little more, the Walther AC43 was made in July 1943, the Mauser BYF43 was made in August of 1943 the earliest known in regular production at Mauser in the B block of 1944, I suppose it could have sent back to Mauser for a refinish after its original blue finish was worn and got the phosphate coating then. Your Sprewerk CYQ was made in November of 1943. Your Walther AC43 has the extended cut in the slide this feature in the Walther production were changed in late 1943 the extractor cut was shortened. You can see the shortened extractor cut in the Mauser and the Sprewerk guns and the "hump" in all three guns. The Germans didn't throw anting away, they used the earlier slides until they were gone. The same was true with Mauser and to a lesser extent Sprewerk. When Walther made a change in production the changes were forwarded to Mauser and Sprewerk to make the same change in their P.38 production also.
Thanks very much for the corrected dating and additional information Don! Just to confirm, I believe you're saying the phosphate treatment wasn't instituted at Mauser until the 1944 B block. The finish does look quite old and worn, so I guess it was either done in Germany during refurbishment or here in the US and carried a lot by an owner on this side of the pond.
I may have asked before, but do you have a recommended book for the P.38s? I'm in a patient search for reasonably priced copies of the Jan Still series of books. Collectors items in themselves :o
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There is a book on the P.38 I think Simpsons sells it, i'll check and get back. On the Phosphate byf 43. it wasn't phosphated over here the phosphate coating was too hard to duplicate. I am pretty sure it was done by Mauser in 1944. Simpsons has the book, it is the most recent and excellent source. I have a signed by the authors Alex and Dieter.
https://www.simpsonltd.com/products/k1701
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There is a book on the P.38 I think Simpsons sells it, i'll check and get back. On the Phosphate byf 43. it wasn't phosphated over here the phosphate coating was too hard to duplicate. I am pretty sure it was done by Mauser in 1944. Simpsons has the book, it is the most recent and excellent source. I have a signed by the authors Alex and Dieter.
https://www.simpsonltd.com/products/k1701
Thanks for the recommendation and the link! I just ordered it. It's nice to find a military surplus firearm monograph that isn't out of print (yet), and hence reasonably priced thumb1
For others, here's a review of the book, with a nice video sequence of flipping through the sections, from Ian McCollum: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MYULWsOWy0
Thanks for the additional info on the phosphate treatment. Good to know the byf has an authentic finish. Not original blue, but refurbished by the Germans is good enough for me. Were any P.38s imported before the '68 GCA, in other words, does lack of import marks imply a bringback or merely an earlier import to the US?
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Your P.38's were most likely GI bring backs.
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Those are some nice Pistole Phos ! That phosphate coating with the Matt finish looks really good too. So these are 9mm ? How many mags did you get and how many rounds do they hold ? If you ever shoot them or any give us a range report.
I see GM has interest again clap1 Ooooh Boy. chuckles1
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I see GM has interest again clap1 Ooooh Boy. chuckles1
Never lost it...... I made it almost a whole month before I fell off the wagon.
Can't get no support around here.... Like an AA meeting with an open bar. rofl2
Here's to 6 clean days. thumb1
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I hide my problem here a little. I only post up like every 3rd purchase but everything is going to be okay GM. We can say, Honey look at how many guns Phos buys ! Geez lay off of me chuckles1
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Those are some nice Pistole Phos ! That phosphate coating with the Matt finish looks really good too. So these are 9mm ? How many mags did you get and how many rounds do they hold ? If you ever shoot them or any give us a range report.
I see GM has interest again clap1 Ooooh Boy. chuckles1
Thanks DC! Just one magazine per pistol, which are single stack holding 8 rounds. I like bluing but the softened by wear phosphate coating looks nice too. thumb1
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Nummy Alert. Sold my 98% Nazi eagle stamped, bakelite grips, etc years ago. Somewhat of a redemption - picked this gem up about three years ago.
(https://i.ibb.co/2PxsSVK/pix113210486.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nf9nBdk)
(https://i.ibb.co/Wf6zCPY/pix967671202.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/5G525c1/3-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/8NjXj8m)
(https://i.ibb.co/2FBGM6P/3-37.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cyd48vt)
(https://i.ibb.co/vwMsyJ9/3-32.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0DzB4f5)
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More pics
(https://i.ibb.co/31Nt1kh/pix951069140.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Q9Ns9Xm)
(https://i.ibb.co/0ytGbKs/3-43.jpg) (https://ibb.co/b5JK9Fb)
short poems about trust and love (https://poetandpoem.com/trust)
(https://i.ibb.co/4Y8VHDQ/3-20.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Sdt3z1L)
(https://i.ibb.co/1JFjRww/3-27.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Tq9dPFF)
(https://i.ibb.co/1JFjRww/3-27.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Tq9dPFF)
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Nice!
I love P38's.
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Matchka what you have is Military P-1 that was pull and restamped for commercial sale probable (on the front of the trigger guard) in a PX in Germany and was purchased by a GI and brought back the states by him.
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236, now that is some interesting news. Had no idea that GI's could purchase firearms through an overseas PX! What year would you think the pistol was manufactured?
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The gun was made in 1966 was probably in storage wasn't needed by the BW so it was repurposed in 1968 for commercial sale.
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Good to know. Wasn't sure if the '66' was original YOM - or, the 68 w/symbols on the trigger guard meant it's a mismatched or parts pistol. Any idea what a P-1/P-38 w/accessories, box, manual, target & two mags would fetch these days? Tks!!!
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The first pistol I ever bought out of a store was a BW P1 made in the mid 60's.
It was one of those rare purchases that I didn't really need to practice with. It was a natural fit for me and more accurate than I could be. My son owns it now.
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"the 68 w/symbols on the trigger guard meant it's a mismatched or parts pistol." Not so. it's the same gun as it was in 1966. Just repurposed in 1968.
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"the 68 w/symbols on the trigger guard meant it's a mismatched or parts pistol." Not so. it's the same gun as it was in 1966. Just repurposed in 1968.
That's good news. Sold my very nice Nazi stamped, bakelite grips, etc. Walther back in '89. This one caught my eye at a Florida gun show in '12. Can't remember what I paid for it but it was a 'late Sunday afternoon' deal that worked for my wallet.