Author Topic: Chinese serial letter prefix/suffix  (Read 12625 times)

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Offline Greasemonkey

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Re: Chinese serial letter prefix/suffix
« Reply #20 on: January 26, 2018, 12:58:16 AM »

B-West being the only one so far that exhibits two letters does kind of put it back into the exporter/importer side of the court though.   We need more data obviously.  I seem to recall the norm being a single suffix letter, with the occasional prefix....which so far have all been Cs.  Hmmm.


Hopefully RM has a bunch in his archive he can provide me with, when the poor guy gets a free moment.  :)
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Offline firstchoice

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Re: Chinese serial letter prefix/suffix
« Reply #21 on: January 26, 2018, 02:54:24 AM »
  I own one of the /26\ 23 million rifles and three of the /26\ 24 million rifles. The 23 million has an "A" prefix. All three of the 24 million have a "D" prefix. All these are CSI ONT CA  imported rifles.

   I own a /156\ with SN 1611549 P (P Suffix) This rifle has the "West Coast Rail" or "Rail to Nowhere", as some called it. This one is a KSI POMONA CA import. Also, these are the rifles with the star stamped in front of the SN on the buttstock.

   My /26\ 8 million CAI  ST ALB, VT import, /26\ 11 million CJA SFLD, MI. import, and the /26\ 12 million N.A. Co. RIDGEFIELD, N.J. imported Cowboy Carbine all have no prefix or suffix.

   My Chinese /416\ 公安 Public Security Rifle has no prefix or suffix.  KFS ATL, GA import.

   

I only have a question, maybe just an excess thought or two.. cause I am just that kinda guy..  :)   

How did the importer stamp it and not break through the blue...

When one says someone breached the blueing with a stamp, this is what comes to my mind...




Granted now.... I don't have macro shots of this specimen.. but this particular import stamp and serial both look to have at least a large percentage of blueing intact, while the added graffiti letters display bare white metal. 



  Just to throw in a little on the DIG imports with the added letters, I own a nice DIG import with the same import year of '91 but there are no added letters to any of the left side stampings. The SN is:  91  07114, and of course DIG, INC,  VA BCH, VA import marked.  If that helps to muddy the water any further.  :)

 

  Although, it does look like they had some trouble with the "M"s on 7.62x39MM...



  The Beta Arms imported SKS-30's have no Prefix or Suffix, but they may not fall into the category you're looking at.  I know they're new manufactured SKS, but they're considered "Commercial" right?

  If you need pics of any of this, let me know.

  firstchoice

 

Offline Buckeye

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Re: Chinese serial letter prefix/suffix
« Reply #22 on: February 04, 2018, 12:54:53 PM »
Can't find any mention of the "Q" letter prefix


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Offline Greasemonkey

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Re: Chinese serial letter prefix/suffix
« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2018, 01:27:32 PM »
Can't find any mention of the "Q" letter prefix


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Would like a shot of the importer or know who at least import stamped the rifle, and the factory info..  thumb1





  The Beta Arms imported SKS-30's have no Prefix or Suffix, but they may not fall into the category you're looking at.  I know they're new manufactured SKS, but they're considered "Commercial" right?

  If you need pics of any of this, let me know.

  firstchoice

 

FC....
I can not say for certain which will have a prefix/suffix.. the more info we can get, the better a determination we can make. But, what I "suspect", the letter prefix/suffix may not apply to newer made commercial variants, like the late rifles with year style, 90, 91, 92, 93 and 94 serial prefixes..... The one I could see being the exception to the commercial rifles, are ones converted from standard military issue to commercial, as these should retain their military style serial and factory markings.
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Offline reloader762

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Re: Chinese serial letter prefix/suffix
« Reply #24 on: February 19, 2018, 07:12:29 PM »
I have a NIB /26\ 10 Mil. Chinese SKS I think was made around 1965.  Importer was PTL INT'L ATL GA  If anyone has any info on what the A suffix stands for I would appreciate it.


Online Phosphorus32

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Re: Chinese serial letter prefix/suffix
« Reply #25 on: February 19, 2018, 08:03:22 PM »
I have a NIB /26\ 10 Mil. Chinese SKS I think was made around 1965.  Importer was PTL INT'L ATL GA  If anyone has any info on what the A suffix stands for I would appreciate it.



That's still unknown. These letters were clearly applied after original production, but whether it was applied by the exporters before export from China, or by the importers in the US, for example, to ensure the serial number was unique to that particular importer, as required by US law, is uncertain.

Offline Loose}{Cannon

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Re: Chinese serial letter prefix/suffix
« Reply #26 on: February 19, 2018, 08:24:47 PM »
I think they were done in china either to allocate sets of guns to dif importers as they purchased them, or possibly by Chinese Armories designating a branch or large unit.

Better make sure division A don't get some of division Bs guns after a massive parade or field exercise.b
      
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Offline reloader762

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Re: Chinese serial letter prefix/suffix
« Reply #27 on: February 19, 2018, 09:08:58 PM »
Thanks for the reply, I've posed the question on different forums over the years and I pretty much got the same answer.  I guess it will just have to remain an unknown for the time being.

Offline martin08

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Re: Chinese serial letter prefix/suffix
« Reply #28 on: February 26, 2018, 10:20:22 AM »
11 mil /26\ with an I-suffix

Poly USA import mark.


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Re: Chinese serial letter prefix/suffix
« Reply #29 on: March 03, 2018, 05:47:26 PM »
Has anyone checked under the stock? Mine has letters all over it. These rifles could have been outside China then brought back to China and then exported to the US. The Bayonet doesn't match the gun
















Offline Loose}{Cannon

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Re: Chinese serial letter prefix/suffix
« Reply #30 on: March 04, 2018, 12:18:20 AM »
How would the letters in question indicate they went somewhere out side of China, were reimported, then exported again?
      
1776 will commence again if you try to take our firearms... It doesn't matter how many Lenins you get out on the street begging for them to be taken.

Offline Greasemonkey

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Re: Chinese serial letter prefix/suffix
« Reply #31 on: October 24, 2018, 12:11:01 PM »
I've still been dabbling with this prefix/suffix mess for a while, on and off for the past few months, between hospitals, being stuck out of town working, so on and so forth................. pullhair1 think1


So I will throw this at the wall and see what sticks. RM, please forgive me, it has to come out. I just used a few rifles that came to mind in standing out while looking. It would be interesting to see what is reflected in the mass-o-pictures you have.


I'm starting to, now that I've seen quite a few, wonder if the serial suffix is not possibly a refurb/inspection/rebuild location or a rebuild identifier.... and has possibly nothing to do with the importer or exporter as a specific suffix/prefix can not be finger pointed to any one specific importer/exporter. It has been shown they welded, reground and reserialed rifles, maybe stamping was part of the refurb evolution in their methods.

Looking through the ones in this thread and pictures of ones I found elsewhere, it kind of dawned on me, they are usually all in very good shape, almost new'ish for their age, realistically, if you set aside the 30-40 years of dings, nicks and use from here in the US. Some in this very thread and others elsewhere are older rifles sporting the later blondish stocks and have the suffix, then you see the same serial series in the same ranges with finish loss and worn stocks, like the recent Albanian imports, the IC rifles and non-import marked/bringbacks there is none that had a prefix/suffix I could find. Another quirk.. the /2\ stock stamp seems to follow the serial suffix/prefix, not always, but seems thats were it shows up.

as example..... 2 10million /26\ rifles.... Same year built, 369335 rifles apart...even just looking at the metal finish, one is sporting that new "commercial" look, one is sporting the very well used "military" look, or as RM calls..."as issued".  looking at stocks, the top rifle the stock is matching from what I saw, and I'm sure that finish color was not an overly common color used by /26\ in 1965, it's more like a finish you would see on late imported rifles..



If respective owners want them removed, please contact me and it shall be done.

Another example..M08's 11 million oil finish rifle(top) vs. a 12 million no import marked rifle(bottom).



Another... from M08's stash, (Sorry M08 for singling out you out) :)). All the same rifle.. With a "B" suffix and /2\ stock stamp. With this example.. it has had stock work done at some point which would account for the plugs/repairs in the wood. It could very well be a factory stock, a repaired factory stock, but it could be a replacement. Did the repaired stock warrant the "B" stamp because it had been repaired in some way? And ask yourself, Self, how often is an actual repaired stock seen, some rifles, the repairs are common place, but how many are seen on a Chinese SKS?





Thoughts? Ideas?  Lets hear it.... because this suffix/prefix mystery has hung in limbo for almost as many years as dating methods and such.

I just think it is somewhere in it's life, something was done..it could have been anything from a simple inspection or a full fledge rebuild.
I'm going to make him an offer he can't refuse......

Leave the gun take the cannoli.

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Offline Justin Hell

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Re: Chinese serial letter prefix/suffix
« Reply #32 on: October 25, 2018, 01:39:32 PM »
This does make some sense...
My 59 never, but built from a barreled receiver (no Norinco in import stamp)
My 64 spiker would have been rebuilt/serviced twice. M and L suffix came with blank orange stock
My 65 oil finish once, and has the /8\ stamp in the stock P suffix, came as new stuffed with cosmo
My 69 once came as a bubba C prefix
My other 69 built from a barreled reciever never (no Norinco)
My 70 DB...never
My 71 never? has stock repair but no stamp
My 72(?) never...but it is kind of a mystery even as to date. Built from scrubbed barreled receiver Has Norinco though.
My 78 once, but I restored it from bubba (This one is kind of a surprise to have a rebuild stamp...for a late carbine) K suffix

If the letters could be assigned to particular rebuild degrees or specific items (ie stocks) that are obviously done...especially to older weapons that had more time to be redone. Then again, they could be a particular location or even inspector's final stamp.

It may be difficult to attribute specific things to letters without a huge database of suffixed SKSs and specifics and/or pics included...to find obvious restocks, bluing too good to be true for the age, mismatched or scrubbed components that don't fit the era (ie bolt carriers) perhaps even the odd sight leaf with the wrong symbol for the era.

It is an interesting notion...and makes a lot of sense. My only hiccup with my collection that kind of is at odds with the theory is my 78.

It does make sense my 65 is just TOO new...why on earth would they make bazillions of them per year if they were able to just stockpile them for 30 years before it finding it's way to me...brand new?  Especially when this was right before they deluge of 66s went to Vietnam? Seems anything just sitting around would be sent off as aid first wouldn't it?  These imports from the heydey of importing them like you said had them whereas the new imports don't. You also don't and/or didn't seem to have sequential SKSs found in lots...I don't recall ever hearing of sequential Chinese. Perhaps they were MOSTLY refurbs, and that was practice in preparation for export? Right around the time Norinco was stamped across so many eras of SKSs... :P  I find it interesting that all of my barreled receiver builds have no suffix...possibly indicating they arrived that way...and never went through a rebuild process before export. It would be interesting to see if perhaps the 64 spikers have rebuild letters that might indicate switching from blade to spike during an early rebuild process?

It is a notion that warrants further research for sure!


Offline Greasemonkey

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Re: Chinese serial letter prefix/suffix
« Reply #33 on: October 26, 2018, 11:05:19 AM »
On the one thing that makes particular rebuild degrees or specific items hard to judge...is the amount of swapping of parts and crap over the years, the bubbas back to normal and such, people who start swapping stuff in troubleshooting(ie my high cap duckbill or my Fleabay 20rd high cap don't work).  Another issue, what if it was just spring, or gas piston or tube, how could you tell, the gas/tube piston is usually elctropenciled serialized anyway, a spring, well it's just a spring.

This would require pure unmolested specimens to fairly judge....... it would be pointless to use cobbled together rifles if looking for rebuild degrees vs letter.
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Leave the gun take the cannoli.

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Offline vinco

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Re: Chinese serial letter prefix/suffix
« Reply #34 on: February 27, 2020, 11:27:13 PM »
I have an all-matching rifle that's a P suffix.  It's an arsenal 0136, 21M series, SN 2100(xxxX) P.  It is actually a paratrooper with the receiver holes and stock cut indicating it had a rail to nowhere, and it is stamped, "KSI Pomona, CA"

Oh, hi - it's my first post here.

I also have a 3M series /26\, with the importer stamp of "MING LONG CO. NAPA CA".  I noticed on the big list of importers that the list writer had never seen one of these.  Mine came to me as a barrelled action which I've pieced back together into a shooter.  It has a blade bayonet.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2020, 11:33:10 PM by vinco »

Offline Justin Hell

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Re: Chinese serial letter prefix/suffix
« Reply #35 on: March 01, 2020, 06:48:57 PM »
I have an all-matching rifle that's a P suffix.  It's an arsenal 0136, 21M series, SN 2100(xxxX) P.  It is actually a paratrooper with the receiver holes and stock cut indicating it had a rail to nowhere, and it is stamped, "KSI Pomona, CA"

Oh, hi - it's my first post here.

I also have a 3M series /26\, with the importer stamp of "MING LONG CO. NAPA CA".  I noticed on the big list of importers that the list writer had never seen one of these.  Mine came to me as a barrelled action which I've pieced back together into a shooter.  It has a blade bayonet.

Hey there. Welcome to the board!
It's actually Hing Long....I guess RM hasn't amended the listing since better examples have been seen. I assume you got that from Sarco....both of my barreled receivers that came from them were sporting Hing Long importer stamps. Cool you got a 3m from them....I got a 59 A series letter gun from them a couple years back. It was severely pitted, but still able to be brought back from the dead....although I am still looking for a proper stock for it. When I picked it up from my FFL, he felt so bad for it he didn't charge the transfer fee....whilst I am trying to keep the drool from being noticeable when I saw the serial.  fart1

Since you found this thread I also assume you know your P doesn't stand for paratrooper. It would be more likely that it stood for pizza being for lunch that day in China. chuckles1

It would take some serious forensic research over many examples....but I lean towards the letters standing for various components replaced at refurbishment. Perhaps if a serial font was noticed to be different from the rest of a gun's serials on a trigger group for instance, all of which had a suffix of P, it would seem to indicate a replacement for that part. My only hope is that this board will endure long enough and locate enough evidence to 'prove' that hypothesis....or even reveal another. :)

Offline Ghost51xxx

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Re: Chinese serial letter prefix/suffix
« Reply #36 on: May 07, 2020, 09:32:48 PM »
I have a suffix D to add to the pot.    NORINCO CHINA  POLY U.S.A. ATL. GA
I searched a few hours on the internet and found a similar serial number as mine on Gunbroker but the suffix is G3. Same exporter/importer. Both have the same serial number font with no factory marking. Like the ghost guns. Both serial numbers are stamped at a angle. The number 6 in both serial numbers look identical with a unique font. Any idea which factory made these?