Spanish FR 8

[Greasemonkey]

Pretty high in the ranking for the oddest Mauser, and my favorite Mauser, the Spanish FR 8, they were made from the late 40's well into the 50's. It's a Spanish M43 8mm large ring Mauser reconfigured and rebarreled to 7.62 Cetme/Nato. In the very early days, the Cetme had issues with Nato ammo, so Spain made a lower power version ammo the 7.62 Cetme. After some revisions to the Cetme it became an excellent weapons system and the issue with the 7.62 Nato round was fixed. This was designed and built to be similar to the Spanish Cetme to assist troops with becoming accustomed with the sighting system, and was commonly issued to rear line troops. The Cetme triple ring, flash hider and front sight tool, bayonet and sling are shared with it. The barrel is also the same, just a modified Cetme barrel, designed for a Mauser action. The combination of the short 19 inch stiff design of the barrel, the storage tube and bedding in the stock add up to a very well bedded action, once you get one dialed in, they are pretty accurate. The tube under the barrel serves double duty, the bayonet latch and a removable storage tube, for cleaning kit, a nudie picture or a cigarette. The rear sight is a V-groove for 100 meters, rotating it changes it from 200, 300 and 400 meters, these distances being aperture sights, getting smaller and smaller apertures as distance increases.

You can aways just tell someone who is clueless, it's a gas operated bolt action, see the gas tube under the barrel.

There is another version, the FR 7, it differers from the FR 8 some, it is based off the M1916 small ring Mauser, and the biggest give away is the straight stock design vs. this ones later K98 style stock design. They are somewhat less common as well.

These first photos are from the seller I brought my first FR 8 off of many, many moons ago. That dude could take wonderful photos







This is one I unbubba'ed it's a 1947 dated FR 8.  Handguards are like finding a, well ok, you can't find them


Here is my 1947, 1951 and a 1955.

[Dannyboy53]

Fascinating GM and beautiful rifles! The flash hiders look like the AR 15/16 flash hiders.

[Greasemonkey]

Yup, that flash hider isn't the only design we have "borrowed" from other countries. Lets see, we copied the Mauser action, the boat tailed bullet, the Enfield just to name a few

[Dannyboy53]

I didn't know that about the flash hiders, thanks!

[Greasemonkey]

I didn't know that about the flash hiders, thanks!

I can't swear to it, but considering Spain already had the design about 10 years prior to the gleem in Stoners eyes. Kinda like the "modern" direct impingement system on the AR , please , France and Sweden were playing with that system in the very early '40s 

[Dannyboy53]

I would suppose that system is okay from an ease of manufacturing and cost standpoint but I always hated cleaning the bolt/chamber. It was such a pain in the ...butt!

Everything has a trade-off about it I guess.

[Greasemonkey]

Cleaning, is nothing but a thing, the Hakim, MAS 49/56, Swedish Ljungman all use it.   Owning two Hakims and  two MAS 49/56s, you learn the quick easy methods.   long pipe cleaners become your best friend.

[Loose}{Cannon]

These are neat guns...  reminds me of an Enfield jungle carbine type rifle.

[Dannyboy53]

Now that you mention it Cannon, they do. I owned a jungle carbine and I would take one of these over the jc any time!

[sheepdog]

Interesting, does it kick like a Jungle Carbine?

[Greasemonkey]

Never shot the jungle carbine, but to me, around about M44 Mosin, they are pretty close. The one rule it has, palm cycle the bolt, that rear sight will remove knuckle skin.

[Dannyboy53]

Interesting, does it kick like a Jungle Carbine?

I was never warned about that prior to touching off the first round in mine! 

[Phosphorus32]

Very nice looking trio of FR-8s GM!  I'll add my 1950 and some comparison shots with the No5Mk1 since it came up in discussion.

Interesting, does it kick like a Jungle Carbine?

I think the Jungle Carbine kicks more than the FR-8.  They have the same weight (about 7.7 pounds) and both rounds yield energies of 3.3 kJ.  I think this comparison of the buttplate and buttpad (and i use that term loosely since the rubber is as hard as a rock) might explain part of the difference in felt recoil; a lot less surface area to focus that kick with the buttpad of the No5.  The flash suppressor on the FR-8 may actually have some muzzle braking effect too, the smooth sided flash hider of the No5 definitely has no braking associated with it.

[Greasemonkey]

  Nice

One little side note on the recoil, 7.62 Nato is typically 147 grain, the 'ol 303 Brit is typically 174 grain. So kinda rough comparison between light ball and heavy ball ammo, bullet weight can alter felt recoil.

I did do some 168 grain ammo one time in the FR 8, that added a nice thump.

[Dannyboy53]

During the Korean War my Dad was in the 2nd Chemical mortar Bn and supported Australian troops of the 27th British Brigade that were armed with the Jungle Carbine. The Australians thought highly of the little rascal.

[Phosphorus32]

Nice

One little side note on the recoil, 7.62 Nato is typically 147 grain, the 'ol 303 Brit is typically 174 grain. So kinda rough comparison between light ball and heavy ball ammo, bullet weight can alter felt recoil.

I did do some 168 grain ammo one time in the FR 8, that added a nice thump.

Thanks!

Yes, felt recoil is by definition a subjective measurement.  It's just my perception, so which cartridges I was using, if my shoulder was feeling kind of sensitive that day  , etc. all affect what I felt    I used Prvi 174 gr in my No5 Mk1 and Federal M80 147 gr NATO ammo in my FR-8. The ballistic energies I found were for a 24" test barrel, not the shorter barrels that these guns have so that's another variable.  In any case, I enjoy shooting both of these carbines and I don't think the kick out of either are bad but they definitely let you know you've pulled the trigger 

I haven't tried anything but NATO spec ball ammo in my FR-8 yet.  Was that 168 grain the Federal OTM stuff? Did it shoot better than standard FMJ?

During the Korean War my Dad was in the 2nd Chemical mortar Bn and supported Australian troops of the 27th British Brigade that were armed with the Jungle Carbine. The Australians thought highly of the little rascal.

Interesting anecdote Danny.  My dad was in a safer position, sitting over in Okinawa fixing radios for the Army Security Agency that were monitoring various communications.

[Greasemonkey]

Accuracy didn't change much as I recall, the recoil did. It was Prvi ammo. I've fed them everything 7.62 Nato to 308 Win, everything from DAG plastic training stuff to XM80C 7.62 Nato to Norinco steel case 308 Win to the 308 Hornady ammo, even a box or two of 7.62 Cetme. I do however keep an eye on headspace with them, better safe than sorry. It's a 3 lug large ring, they build 30-06 and 8mm, and even some heavy Magnum calibers on these large rings, so it should, in theory handle a 308.

[Dannyboy53]

Interesting anecdote Danny.  My dad was in a safer position, sitting over in Okinawa fixing radios for the Army Security Agency that were monitoring various communications.

That's good Phosphorus, every job is critical. My dad would tell him today that he didn't miss a d***ed thing by not being in Korea!

GM I remember reading some years back these large ring Mausers were capable of handling (I think it was) about 52,000 CUPs.

[Greasemonkey]

CUP and PSI, two total different measuring methods  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper_units_of_pressure Then throw in SAMMI vs C.I.P   The whole mess opens doors and arguments on a massive scale.  Rule of thumb, check your brass, check your headspace, also educate yourself, ask questions, post photos. Any changes in either brass or headspace, have it examined by a pro.

But that a side, a Nato round has a thicker case, hence less overall powder capacity, so in theory lower overall pressure. Kinda the same argument with 5.56 and .223.  Heavier cases support automatic fire decreasing the likelihood of a ripping in half case, also the case is slightly more durable in rough handling.

[Dannyboy53]

Exactly right GM, those are good habits to get into. I've been reloading since '79, got in the habit of checking cases/primers when shooting. I find myself doing so even with factory ammo these days!

With firearms we can never be too careful.