White or blue that is the question

[Boris Badinov]

Blade bayonets on early prototype SKS-31 were bare steel.

[Cz315]

Again, this is Russian 'forum chat' but they are closer to the source...


Blued Shiny vs Matte? Or   Shiny vs Matte?


I ask because the CIA text  i posted an excerpt from above describes  "chrome-plated" vs "rough finish". Which to me suggests simply the difference between a blade that has been highly polished and one that is not.

Definitely blued shiny. Now that I looked at it closer they might be actually referring to the BBQ blued as matte.

https://forum.guns.ru/forummessage/182/2581937.html

[Boris Badinov]

Earlier I shared this 1949 sks sniper prototype with a dark bayonet suggesting that it might represent a brief transition from black spike to black blade bayonet. But I now see that the dark blade is an effect of the camera flash. Note how the center of the stock is washed out but the stock gets darker at the butt and fore end.



Similarly there is a distinct border between the black handle and the blade. There is also some smudge type effect on the left side of the bayonet that strikes me as possible the reflection of an oily thumb print.








The blade bayo definitely looks dark but not blued. Could be part of the trial as a sniper rifle to darken the mitigate reflective glint.

The sniper prototype is the OMB-180, discussed along with other sks sniper variants here:
https://www.gunboards.com/threads/a-brief-history-of-and-a-couple-of-sks-sniper-rifles-picture-heavy.1134945/#post-10116585

[Boris Badinov]

Any date specific features on these uniforms? Bayonets are definitely not blued:

[BMont]

Alot of great info shared here.  My thoughts are every bayo was in the white originally before being blued.  Thanks for sharing all the info every one. This is why I like this site.

[Boris Badinov]

These are excellent points and facts that are hard to argue with, Boris.

What bugs me though is that blued bayonet is bigger and heavier and 'blued'. I admit my measurements are based on a sample of one but I read the same on the various forums, so for the sake of [present] argument let's assume this is the case. Soviet firearms have been always SUPER standardized and it makes zero sense for the Tula factory to produce two different types of bayonets for refurb and replacement. It is absolutely true that most of them are in top shape, why would they blue them for storage? Cosmoline has been always enough

What makes a lot of sense to me is that early production blade bayos were blued (as was Russian/Soviet tradition since the 19th century, including '49 spiker), then they quickly changed (smaller and cheaper without blueing to save costs and weight) and had leftover that could have been put on refurbs as needed. I think it is not unreasonable that it could have happened during late 49 - 1950 when so many changes were made. The '50 prevalence of blued bayos is also anecdotally confirmed by some Russian sources.

I'm the first to admit that this is purely a conjecture without much (any?) factual support but I'm a strong believer in Occam's razor and it just makes sense to me.

These are some good points. Which I have given a lot of consideration  over several years.

I agree that standardization is a unmistakable trait for soviet standard issue small arms. The key phrase here being issue small arms. Even as it went into full production in 1949, the sks45's phase out was already being planned. By 1955 the Soviets had ironed out all production issues surrounding design, and the AK was ready to go into full production. With sufficient quantities of AKs being produced, the SKS was no longer the standard issue small arm. As I see it, the sks45 was only ever a stop gap measure left in place until it could be replaced with robust production of the AK rifles. By 1954-55 the sks was no longer standard. As a result the standard for the bayonet was determined by individual storage facilities.

Coincidentally, it is exactly at this juncture in time that the Chinese start 'producing' their own exact copy of the SKS. We know for a fact that the first 2000+ Chinese guns were built on soviet receivers. And as late as 1958 there is irrefutable evidence that Chinese guns were still being built on surplus Soviet receivers. (I'll try and locate the thread: but running-man shared encountered a 3rd year/1958 Chinese sks and beneath the stock line it is literally covered in Soviet inspection stamp!!). 1958 is also when we see China's first aesthetic deviation from the Soviet design standard with the introduction of the side mounted stock sling swivel.


Regarding Cosmoline. It is an obvious way to protect against corrosion. But the Soviet rifles that ended up in the US weren't caked in cosmoline when they arrived-- like the mosins, and Toks , Albanian type56's, etc. Inspection of the  Soviet stocks reveals they are  completely devoid of grease. To me this suggests that they were dry when placed  into ready storage. Without cosmoline protection, rifles put into long term ready storage would have required regular inspection and maintenance to prevent rust and to touch up or refinish flaking lacquer finishes. This also provides a really good explanation for the the crossbolt stamps-- the common pattern being one or two worn to barely visible stamps next to crisp highly visible stamps.


From what I've seen and read, I strongly believe that the 1956-58 carbines were built on scrubbed, soviet made barreled receivers. And the 60% drop in yearly production totals from 1959 through 1961 is evidence that Soviet supply of receivers dried up almost instantaneously at some point in that three year period.

[Boris Badinov]

Scouring the internet this morning I came across this image on pinterest.EDIT Phos32 pointed out to me that this is not a 90° port and I now agree. Appears to be a 90° gas port with a blade bayonet. It is however an issued rifle with bare white blade. No accompanying description and a google image search found no match for the image:

[Boris Badinov]

Rare color photo of Soviet sks in service. Soviet marines. Gas port looks 45° but it's very low resolution and given the angle of the photo it could be curved. Still, here we have a bare white bladed sks45 in actual service .



Found on militaryimages.net
https://www.militaryimages.net/threads/soviet-army-in-the-cold-war-a-detailed-story-dedicated-to-the-day-of-the-soviet-army.9818/post-141713