Question about pitting in Mosin-Nagant barrel. Safe to shoot?

[firstchoice]

I have a 1942 Mosin-Nagant M91/30 that I sold my brother years back. The rifle eventually came back to me. Apparently, he had shot some of the corrosive surplus ammo through it and then, didn't clean it. I cleaned the barrel and it's pitted. Not terribly, no craters. Just frosty like after taking surface rust off of a blued finish. Not smooth anymore. But after being used to the shiny, chrome-lined bores of the SKS, I have to ask, is it safe to shoot a rifle of that caliber with a pitted bore? The rifle's in good surplus condition, but I don't feel like wearing bolt-bling for teeth, either.

Thanks for advice on this. Wasn't sure this was the correct spot for this question so if it needs moved...

firstchoice

[Greasemonkey]

I have a few with pitted bores like you describe, some slightly frosty..some really rough...like eat a patch rough...they are fine to shoot. Just clean them up good, and they may possibly even shoot themselves clean, I've had one or two pull that stunt.  Biggest thing on a Mosin is the headspace, if that's good, you should not have to worry about bolt-bling teeth. 

[firstchoice]

Thanks GM!  I kinda thought that that was the case but wanted to ask the folks I trusted first. I may still put something between my face and the rifle when I pull the trigger the first couple times. 

Which ammo would be best to do that with? What's the lowest load in surplus 7.62x54R that you know of?

I hope it does clean the bore up. That would be great! I know of a M91/59 that I'd like to try that on, too. Everything else in Mosin-Nagant that I have all have nice clean barrels.

firstchoice

[Greasemonkey]

I've never really seen low power surplus loadings... short of Czech training rounds with the 40ish grain bullet..it's still a full powder charge. Even modern noncorrosive ammo is loaded fairly normal and I don't think there is a low power/low recoil ammo.

I don't think you will have an issue with what you describe.. them chrome bores spoil people into thinking every bore should look that way. One Mosin I have, a Finnish M91..probably the worst bore of all my many Finns...and that bastard shoots like a dream, it's frosty, hazy, pitted and will rip a patch.

[Phosphorus32]

My Mosins vary widely in bore condition from clean, sharp and deep on my M91/30-PU to a bore that a bullet would drop through on my 1960 Type 53 that returned from Vietnam. I wouldn't fire that one, not out of any danger, but because it would be a waste of ammo as the bullet rattled down the smooth bore  If you had extremely deep pitting within or close to the chamber end of the barrel, that would be cause for concern.

Extreme copper fouling, such that the grooves have disappeared, is more dangerous. In those cases, when you discharge a round you're trying to force a .311 bullet through a .300 bore with no .311 lands available. Pressure could be considerably higher than spec as the bore is used to swage the entire circumference of the .311 diameter bullet down to .300.

[Greasemonkey]

Extreme copper fouling, such that the grooves have disappeared, is more dangerous. In those cases, when you discharge a round you're trying to force a .311 bullet through a .300 bore with no .311 lands available. Pressure could be considerably higher than spec as the bore is used to swage the entire circumference of the .311 diameter bullet down to .300.

Thats alot of build up.... a metric crap ton..

[Phosphorus32]

Extreme copper fouling, such that the grooves have disappeared, is more dangerous. In those cases, when you discharge a round you're trying to force a .311 bullet through a .300 bore with no .311 lands available. Pressure could be considerably higher than spec as the bore is used to swage the entire circumference of the .311 diameter bullet down to .300.

Thats alot of build up.... a metric crap ton..

Indeed. The only case I've heard of at that extreme causing problems was the Danish 6.5x55mm FMJ ammo that had a soft alloy copper jacket.

I did have an Israeli FN Mauser converted to 7.62 NATO, shipped off to the Guatemalans before being surplussed to the US that had very shallow looking lands before repeated household ammonia* treatments flushed out a lot of blue goo.

P.S. Being a cheap chemist, a $2 1 qt. bottle of "ammonia" (ammonium hydroxide) is way cheaper than "Sweet's Copper Remover"

[firstchoice]

I've never really seen low power surplus loadings... short of Czech training rounds with the 40ish grain bullet..it's still a full powder charge. Even modern noncorrosive ammo is loaded fairly normal and I don't think there is a low power/low recoil ammo.

I don't think you will have an issue with what you describe.. them chrome bores spoil people into thinking every bore should look that way. One Mosin I have, a Finnish M91..probably the worst bore of all my many Finns...and that bastard shoots like a dream, it's frosty, hazy, pitted and will rip a patch.

I remember having a "heavy ball" Hungarian ammo, I believe it was. Not sure of the actual bullet weight. I'll steer away from that and use some PPU ammo for the first try. I fired some 115gr. FMJ 9x18 Makarov through my Czech CZ-82 and my Polish P-83 and I was surpised how much more recoil I felt than when I was using the 93gr FMJ or 94gr FMJ.

The Mosin Nagant's bore won't rip patches. It's just lightly pitted and makes it where it doesn't "shine". Of course, if I had 18 yo eyes again, it may be a lot worse to look at.    But I don't see any major areas of heavy pitting.
 

My Mosins vary widely in bore condition from clean, sharp and deep on my M91/30-PU to a bore that a bullet would drop through on my 1960 Type 53 that returned from Vietnam. I wouldn't fire that one, not out of any danger, but because it would be a waste of ammo as the bullet rattled down the smooth bore  If you had extremely deep pitting within or close to the chamber end of the barrel, that would be cause for concern.

Extreme copper fouling, such that the grooves have disappeared, is more dangerous. In those cases, when you discharge a round you're trying to force a .311 bullet through a .300 bore with no .311 lands available. Pressure could be considerably higher than spec as the bore is used to swage the entire circumference of the .311 diameter bullet down to .300.

No extreme pitting. I cleaned it well and don't see any copper fouling. I don't think he fired all that many rounds through it. He just didn't clean it afterwards.    I may be having to overcome a little OCD when it comes to my guns. 

Thanks for the heads-up on the "ammonia" (ammonium hydroxide) vs. "Sweet's Copper Remover"!

firstchoice

[Greasemonkey]

Heavy ball ammo is typically 173-174 to 180-181 grain...Brown Bear makes a 203 grain ammo. It thumps the shoulder rather nicely when paired with an M44. Mosins can and will eat the heavy ball ammo with ease.. I have some that prefer the heavy ball ammo vs the lighter, light ball 147-149 grain stuff

Just as a side note.. clean the chamber good, of the barrel was like that, better off to scrub the chamber good to prevent sticking cases and added frustration, I mean since your already cleaning..

[running-man]

Just as a side note.. clean the chamber good, of the barrel was like that, better off to scrub the chamber good to prevent sticking cases and added frustration, I mean since your already cleaning..

And make sure to purchase a small mallet so you can work the action...just because it's a Mosin Nagant.



(Just giving GM flak FC, I'm sure you got a nice rifle there.  )

[Phosphorus32]

Just as a side note.. clean the chamber good, of the barrel was like that, better off to scrub the chamber good to prevent sticking cases and added frustration, I mean since your already cleaning..

And make sure to purchase a small mallet so you can work the action...just because it's a Mosin Nagant.



(Just giving GM flak FC, I'm sure you got a nice rifle there.  )

The only way to avoid Mosin #43 is to avoid Mosin #1   

[GuitarmanNick]

With a little work, the Mosin-Nagant bolts can be made to function very smoothly. My M-44 was very hard to open after firing and needed to be smacked to get it open. After polishing the locking lugs and a couple of other points on the bolt assembly, it opens easily for which my old hand is thankful.
It is my first Mosin and surely will not be the last. I have gained an appreciation for the simple yet efficient design, if not the recoil. 

[astronut]

My Chinese T53 "Mosin" has the slickest bolt action I have ever experienced and I have nicknamed it owl sh*t!     No need for a hammer or a board to beat the knob lever up to operate the bolt to extract the fired round.

[running-man]

I know I know.

It’s an old running inside joke around here that I will do whatever it takes to *never* buy a Mosin Nagant of any flavor.  This is due to my obsessive compulsive nature that would never allow me to stop at only one Mosin Nagant.

As a result, I have to occasionally disparage what might possibly be one of the most dependable firearms ever built.

This is why I bring up the small mallet jibe, I’ll occasionally trot out the canoe paddle remarks, or comments on the extreme length.

For example this is GM with his SA marked 91/30:

[Greasemonkey]

OMG. 

I trusted you dude  You said you'd never show that photo of me after a mason jar or two.. and admit it... You have barrel length envy...

Uhmmmmm Mosins.. here is a few of mine.

[astronut]

Nice collection GM!   

[Bob_The_Student]

OMG. 

I trusted you dude  You said you'd never show that photo of me after a mason jar or two.. and admit it... You have barrel length envy...

Uhmmmmm Mosins.. here is a few of mine.

  ... GM I saw those pallets of guns and I was waiting for the Classic Firearms dude to appear!

[Bob_The_Student]

I know I know.

It’s an old running inside joke around here that I will do whatever it takes to *never* buy a Mosin Nagant of any flavor.  This is due to my obsessive compulsive nature that would never allow me to stop at only one Mosin Nagant.

As a result, I have to occasionally disparage what might possibly be one of the most dependable firearms ever built.

This is why I bring up the small mallet jibe, I’ll occasionally trot out the canoe paddle remarks, or comments on the extreme length.

For example this is GM with his SA marked 91/30:

Can either of you tell me the trajectory (drop), of that round, for that Mosin at 100 yds? Would 10 ft. be a good guess? 

[Phosphorus32]

Can either of you tell me the trajectory (drop), of that round, for that Mosin at 100 yds? Would 10 ft. be a good guess? 

I think I'll have to punt on that question

[Bob_The_Student]

For the love of Gad! I thought that was a "doctored" photo. I had no idea that was a real gun.